Just Right DE Track Prep for this 991 Carrera and new racer!
03-14-2018, 11:00 PM
#32
Rennlist Member
As good as the advice given here is, people might not have the time or inclination or resources to be such a "student" of this sport.
Start w car control clinics, master that, then go autocross, chase around cones, spend a full day every time to drive 2 minutes, master that, transition into HPDE, master that on street tires w limited grip, and make sure you do these w miatas or 944s or E30 BMWs or whatever the slow car du jour is. It's all great but that'll take YEARS. And for what? Not going to be the next Senna if you're starting this sport after your thirties or forties that's for sure. Meanwhile, you have a life to live today. You might not want to spend those years in boredom driving ultra slow cars, pointing by many a less-skilled driver in a faster car on track, repetitively. You don't even know whether you'll have the free time or the funds or the health to continue to do HPDE for that many years.
I have all the respect in the world for the "old timers". I think you learned these skills at a better time, with less horsepower, without the nannies, the right way. The point being made isn't lost on me. I wish I could've been on that journey with you. But those times I think have passed. The speed/capability differentials between modern cars and a 944 or an air cooled 911 are just too drastic. Yes I know it's not the car it's the driver, but that only holds to a certain extent. With a Miata on street tires, you'll get lapped by half the field at HPDE. You'll have your arm out the window permanently regardless of run group. I think that's a bit much.
There is nothing wrong w a reversible mod or two, and running what you brung.
Start w car control clinics, master that, then go autocross, chase around cones, spend a full day every time to drive 2 minutes, master that, transition into HPDE, master that on street tires w limited grip, and make sure you do these w miatas or 944s or E30 BMWs or whatever the slow car du jour is. It's all great but that'll take YEARS. And for what? Not going to be the next Senna if you're starting this sport after your thirties or forties that's for sure. Meanwhile, you have a life to live today. You might not want to spend those years in boredom driving ultra slow cars, pointing by many a less-skilled driver in a faster car on track, repetitively. You don't even know whether you'll have the free time or the funds or the health to continue to do HPDE for that many years.
I have all the respect in the world for the "old timers". I think you learned these skills at a better time, with less horsepower, without the nannies, the right way. The point being made isn't lost on me. I wish I could've been on that journey with you. But those times I think have passed. The speed/capability differentials between modern cars and a 944 or an air cooled 911 are just too drastic. Yes I know it's not the car it's the driver, but that only holds to a certain extent. With a Miata on street tires, you'll get lapped by half the field at HPDE. You'll have your arm out the window permanently regardless of run group. I think that's a bit much.
There is nothing wrong w a reversible mod or two, and running what you brung.
03-15-2018, 01:52 AM
#33
Burning Brakes
Agree with this perspective too. I don’t want to run a Miata as much as I recognize what a great car it is. Was in a Miata at Homestead-Miami Speedway a few weeks ago. Car owner was a fighter-pilot (he flew F-15s). Owns a 991 Turbo and had some other sick cars. He loves his Miata and enjoys tracking his spec-‘d out Miata more than anything. Plus, he says the running costs are cheap. That said, I have an emotional attachment to a Porsche and I want to track my 991. Nothing wrong with that as long as i keep the right attitude.
03-15-2018, 10:13 PM
#34
I wouldn't say a roll bar is a safety item. If it's just a roll bar, then the only benefit you get is being able to use a harness that holds you tighter than the stock 3pt harness. But if the car ever rolls, you're held tightly to the seat, ready for the car to roll over, crush your head and spine because unlike the 3 pt harness, the 6 pt harness forces your body to stay put. If you must have race seats and harnesses, go full cage. I'd take a car with factory safety devices on track, I'd take a race car on track, but I wouldn't drive yours... It's dangerous on and off the street.
03-16-2018, 09:58 AM
#35
Rennlist Member
I wouldn't say a roll bar is a safety item. If it's just a roll bar, then the only benefit you get is being able to use a harness that holds you tighter than the stock 3pt harness. But if the car ever rolls, you're held tightly to the seat, ready for the car to roll over, crush your head and spine because unlike the 3 pt harness, the 6 pt harness forces your body to stay put. If you must have race seats and harnesses, go full cage. I'd take a car with factory safety devices on track, I'd take a race car on track, but I wouldn't drive yours... It's dangerous on and off the street.
03-16-2018, 01:29 PM
#36
Race Car
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Fairfax County, Virginia
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* Your car is not covered on the track by your car insurance. Ball it up (it happens frequently) and it's out-of-pocket unless you purchase supplemental track day insurance per event. How many can afford to absorb the cost of a $ 90,000 Porsche that is totaled out?
* A 991 engine is around $ 70,000 if you blow the engine at the track (yes, it happens too) Are you prepared for that?
* One trip into the Armco and you will see how costly a unibody car is to repair, vs a tube frame racer where you just whack off the bent section and weld on a new tube sub-section.
* Today's cars are really, really fast. When you get into trouble at the track the wreck is at a high speed. (this is why I have retired from Instructing). A street car is not designed to crash at 100 mph and people die in the car. Many Instructors have. That simple roll bar, seats and harness are not going to help you much in a high-speed crash. You need a full cage. Sorry, that's the reality of it.
The guys buying Spec Miatas or smaller dedicated race cars are doing it right. You probably CAN afford to wreck them, they have lower speeds so wrecks are hopefully not as violent and they cost far less to run and repair. I have never tracked my 991S Cab and never will - I can't afford to damage it. When I want a track fix now I call up Betril Roos and rent a car for the day - these are 10x more fun than a street car anyways. One you do open wheel, then your Porsche feels like an old Checker Cab. With the Roos cars - all you do is show up. Car blows an engine? Whoops - too bad - get me another please. Nothing to haul home and fix, just arrive and drive.
Last time I got a group of twenty-five guys together and we rented the whole track the day after Bertil Roos had one of their race events. Worked out really well because they already had their whole fleet there and ready after the race series, and all the guys (Porsche and BMW owners) said "Wow - that's hugely more fun than a DE school in street cars". Take a look at this link:
https://racenow.com/
03-16-2018, 01:47 PM
#37
I wouldn't say a roll bar is a safety item. If it's just a roll bar, then the only benefit you get is being able to use a harness that holds you tighter than the stock 3pt harness. But if the car ever rolls, you're held tightly to the seat, ready for the car to roll over, crush your head and spine because unlike the 3 pt harness, the 6 pt harness forces your body to stay put. If you must have race seats and harnesses, go full cage. I'd take a car with factory safety devices on track, I'd take a race car on track, but I wouldn't drive yours... It's dangerous on and off the street.
