Video on advantages of 911 engine placement
02-12-2018, 10:05 PM
#2
I chuckle when people call rear engine “wrong” yet Porsche have proven time and time again that it’s the secret sauce that makes their 911 literally the most legendary and record setting sports car that all others chase.
Sure, it feels a little odd and imbalanced (part of what makes it lively and fun), but it lends strength in acceleration, braking, and overall grip.
Sure, it feels a little odd and imbalanced (part of what makes it lively and fun), but it lends strength in acceleration, braking, and overall grip.
02-13-2018, 03:16 PM
#3
The engineering reasons for it are all known and solid, but still not enough to recommend it when performance is the main goal. Nobody runs a rear engine design in racing, not even Porsche, they flip it around and call it a 911 in order to remain competitive. No way any car maker today, starting with a clean sheet, would ever choose a rear engine design. No car maker including Porsche has ever done so. The 911 is a one-off. Why?
My view is the success of the 911 has never had as much to do with the design, per se,as with the implementation of the design. There is a lot more to making a great drivers car than which side of which axle the engine goes. A whole lot more. Porsche just gets that better than anyone else. That is why, when Porsche decides to make an SUV, boom, finally someone makes an SUV you can enjoy driving. Big ol' sedan? Ditto. Hybrid? LeMans? I'm telling you, we are gonna be winning so much you are gonna get tired of winning. Its not the design. Everyone is using pretty much the same designs. Its their implementation of the designs. Not just what is done, but how. Details. Porsche has mastered the details.
After all these years I think it is getting harder and harder to say the 911 is distinct because of its design. Its been almost two decades since they dropped air cooling, the engines keep moving forward and are even mid-engine now in racing. A good case can be made that the design is an accident of history. The real distinction of the 911, the one that has held through to today, is it is the best Porsche can build. Which of course means its the best anyone can build. That to me is a lot more meaningful than details like where they put the engine.
My view is the success of the 911 has never had as much to do with the design, per se,as with the implementation of the design. There is a lot more to making a great drivers car than which side of which axle the engine goes. A whole lot more. Porsche just gets that better than anyone else. That is why, when Porsche decides to make an SUV, boom, finally someone makes an SUV you can enjoy driving. Big ol' sedan? Ditto. Hybrid? LeMans? I'm telling you, we are gonna be winning so much you are gonna get tired of winning. Its not the design. Everyone is using pretty much the same designs. Its their implementation of the designs. Not just what is done, but how. Details. Porsche has mastered the details.
After all these years I think it is getting harder and harder to say the 911 is distinct because of its design. Its been almost two decades since they dropped air cooling, the engines keep moving forward and are even mid-engine now in racing. A good case can be made that the design is an accident of history. The real distinction of the 911, the one that has held through to today, is it is the best Porsche can build. Which of course means its the best anyone can build. That to me is a lot more meaningful than details like where they put the engine.
02-14-2018, 04:16 AM
#5
The engineering reasons for it are all known and solid, but still not enough to recommend it when performance is the main goal. Nobody runs a rear engine design in racing, not even Porsche, they flip it around and call it a 911 in order to remain competitive. No way any car maker today, starting with a clean sheet, would ever choose a rear engine design. No car maker including Porsche has ever done so. The 911 is a one-off. Why?
My view is the success of the 911 has never had as much to do with the design, per se,as with the implementation of the design. There is a lot more to making a great drivers car than which side of which axle the engine goes. A whole lot more. Porsche just gets that better than anyone else. That is why, when Porsche decides to make an SUV, boom, finally someone makes an SUV you can enjoy driving. Big ol' sedan? Ditto. Hybrid? LeMans? I'm telling you, we are gonna be winning so much you are gonna get tired of winning. Its not the design. Everyone is using pretty much the same designs. Its their implementation of the designs. Not just what is done, but how. Details. Porsche has mastered the details.
After all these years I think it is getting harder and harder to say the 911 is distinct because of its design. Its been almost two decades since they dropped air cooling, the engines keep moving forward and are even mid-engine now in racing. A good case can be made that the design is an accident of history. The real distinction of the 911, the one that has held through to today, is it is the best Porsche can build. Which of course means its the best anyone can build. That to me is a lot more meaningful than details like where they put the engine.
My view is the success of the 911 has never had as much to do with the design, per se,as with the implementation of the design. There is a lot more to making a great drivers car than which side of which axle the engine goes. A whole lot more. Porsche just gets that better than anyone else. That is why, when Porsche decides to make an SUV, boom, finally someone makes an SUV you can enjoy driving. Big ol' sedan? Ditto. Hybrid? LeMans? I'm telling you, we are gonna be winning so much you are gonna get tired of winning. Its not the design. Everyone is using pretty much the same designs. Its their implementation of the designs. Not just what is done, but how. Details. Porsche has mastered the details.
After all these years I think it is getting harder and harder to say the 911 is distinct because of its design. Its been almost two decades since they dropped air cooling, the engines keep moving forward and are even mid-engine now in racing. A good case can be made that the design is an accident of history. The real distinction of the 911, the one that has held through to today, is it is the best Porsche can build. Which of course means its the best anyone can build. That to me is a lot more meaningful than details like where they put the engine.
Why do current GT cars have RAS? to "extend" the wheelbase during high speed cornering.....
I agree, they are masters of the detail throughout the whole ecosystem.
Last edited by RRDnA; 02-14-2018 at 04:36 AM.
02-14-2018, 07:25 PM
#7
The engineering reasons for it are all known and solid, but still not enough to recommend it when performance is the main goal. Nobody runs a rear engine design in racing, not even Porsche, they flip it around and call it a 911 in order to remain competitive. No way any car maker today, starting with a clean sheet, would ever choose a rear engine design. No car maker including Porsche has ever done so. The 911 is a one-off. Why?
My view is the success of the 911 has never had as much to do with the design, per se,as with the implementation of the design. There is a lot more to making a great drivers car than which side of which axle the engine goes. A whole lot more. Porsche just gets that better than anyone else. That is why, when Porsche decides to make an SUV, boom, finally someone makes an SUV you can enjoy driving. Big ol' sedan? Ditto. Hybrid? LeMans? I'm telling you, we are gonna be winning so much you are gonna get tired of winning. Its not the design. Everyone is using pretty much the same designs. Its their implementation of the designs. Not just what is done, but how. Details. Porsche has mastered the details.
After all these years I think it is getting harder and harder to say the 911 is distinct because of its design. Its been almost two decades since they dropped air cooling, the engines keep moving forward and are even mid-engine now in racing. A good case can be made that the design is an accident of history. The real distinction of the 911, the one that has held through to today, is it is the best Porsche can build. Which of course means its the best anyone can build. That to me is a lot more meaningful than details like where they put the engine.
My view is the success of the 911 has never had as much to do with the design, per se,as with the implementation of the design. There is a lot more to making a great drivers car than which side of which axle the engine goes. A whole lot more. Porsche just gets that better than anyone else. That is why, when Porsche decides to make an SUV, boom, finally someone makes an SUV you can enjoy driving. Big ol' sedan? Ditto. Hybrid? LeMans? I'm telling you, we are gonna be winning so much you are gonna get tired of winning. Its not the design. Everyone is using pretty much the same designs. Its their implementation of the designs. Not just what is done, but how. Details. Porsche has mastered the details.
After all these years I think it is getting harder and harder to say the 911 is distinct because of its design. Its been almost two decades since they dropped air cooling, the engines keep moving forward and are even mid-engine now in racing. A good case can be made that the design is an accident of history. The real distinction of the 911, the one that has held through to today, is it is the best Porsche can build. Which of course means its the best anyone can build. That to me is a lot more meaningful than details like where they put the engine.
I have a Hyundai Sonata rental car and it doesn't rattle/squeak at all and feels much more solid inside than the 911. Of course performance/handling/feel of the 911 is far superior, but after riding in any other car it feels like the 911 is very flimsy inside. I don't buy this argument that because the 911 is a sports car is has to be sloppily put together where the pieces don't fit properly.
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02-14-2018, 07:49 PM
#8
What kinds of details has Porsche mastered? Do you really think that the 911 is the best that Porsche can build? Obviously we all love the 911 or we wouldn't have bought the car, but I'm seriously considering never buying a Porsche again after the 991.1. The interior quality seems like it was put together by a high school kid on a Friday afternoon. For months I dreaded getting into the car because of all the annoying rattles and squeaks. I had to bring the car in multiple times to get them to try and tighten it up so it isn't impossible to drive without pulling my hair out. The 987 Cayman S seems to be much better put together than the 911. The service adviser even told me that the 997 quality was better and they get a lot of complains about the interior in the 991. So is that really the best Porsche can do?
I have a Hyundai Sonata rental car and it doesn't rattle/squeak at all and feels much more solid inside than the 911. Of course performance/handling/feel of the 911 is far superior, but after riding in any other car it feels like the 911 is very flimsy inside. I don't buy this argument that because the 911 is a sports car is has to be sloppily put together where the pieces don't fit properly.
I have a Hyundai Sonata rental car and it doesn't rattle/squeak at all and feels much more solid inside than the 911. Of course performance/handling/feel of the 911 is far superior, but after riding in any other car it feels like the 911 is very flimsy inside. I don't buy this argument that because the 911 is a sports car is has to be sloppily put together where the pieces don't fit properly.
I agree ---- given the way you feel you should probably not buy another Porsche again....
Me, on the other hand, bought a CPO'ed 2013 991 S Cab (to replace a 2013 Boxster S) that was so solid that it convinced me to pick up a new Cayenne S over the Lexuses (sp?) that I used to buy. So here I sit with 2 Porsche's and yup when the time comes I'll probably buy another one. And, buying cars is not a new thing to me as I started driving 60 years ago and have owned some really bad, bad examples of manufacturing quality control. I'm sorry your experience with the Porsche marque hasn't been as good......
02-14-2018, 08:06 PM
#9
I agree ---- given the way you feel you should probably not buy another Porsche again....
Me, on the other hand, bought a CPO'ed 2013 991 S Cab (to replace a 2013 Boxster S) that was so solid that it convinced me to pick up a new Cayenne S over the Lexuses (sp?) that I used to buy. So here I sit with 2 Porsche's and yup when the time comes I'll probably buy another one. And, buying cars is not a new thing to me as I started driving 60 years ago and have owned some really bad, bad examples of manufacturing quality control. I'm sorry your experience with the Porsche marque hasn't been as good......
Me, on the other hand, bought a CPO'ed 2013 991 S Cab (to replace a 2013 Boxster S) that was so solid that it convinced me to pick up a new Cayenne S over the Lexuses (sp?) that I used to buy. So here I sit with 2 Porsche's and yup when the time comes I'll probably buy another one. And, buying cars is not a new thing to me as I started driving 60 years ago and have owned some really bad, bad examples of manufacturing quality control. I'm sorry your experience with the Porsche marque hasn't been as good......
02-15-2018, 07:54 AM
#10
To get back to the original topic -- while I have had nothing but great experiences with all of 4 of my Porsches and consider them very innovative and well built in their own right - I have to admit that the quality, attitude and compassion for these cars by the folks at my dealership have helped.
02-15-2018, 09:38 AM
#11
While a sports car in its own way will feel more “rugged” inside than an appliance or luxury car (via its increased stiffness, more harsh bumps being transmitted inside due to more force to the chassis) that feeling is part of the raw charm many love about sports cars.
Rattles are a different story. My 2012.5 3.4 of which I’m the third owner and is modified with X Pipe, H&R lowering springs and HRE wheels, is absolutely and TOTALLY rattle free. Granite solid. Literally not one rattle or squeak. My E Classes rattled far more.
It’s certainly not my Macan in the sense of being separated from harshness, the chassis does feel more “worked” than a car riding high in the air with a squishier suspension, but it rattles even less, and feels even more inherently solid. Even if sometimes I get that unsettling sensation of more pressure being put onto said chassis when going over tougher surfaces.
It’s shockingly smooth too, all things considered.
Rattles are a different story. My 2012.5 3.4 of which I’m the third owner and is modified with X Pipe, H&R lowering springs and HRE wheels, is absolutely and TOTALLY rattle free. Granite solid. Literally not one rattle or squeak. My E Classes rattled far more.
It’s certainly not my Macan in the sense of being separated from harshness, the chassis does feel more “worked” than a car riding high in the air with a squishier suspension, but it rattles even less, and feels even more inherently solid. Even if sometimes I get that unsettling sensation of more pressure being put onto said chassis when going over tougher surfaces.
It’s shockingly smooth too, all things considered.