PCCBs on a Carrera T - Yes or No?
 

Hi.

I have ordered a new Carrera T. CP08 date is 20th March. Hopefully arriving at UK dealership two weeks later. Last thing I'm pondering is whether to add PCCBs.

Car is Racing Yellow, manual transmission, Chrono pack, Carrera T interior in Racing Yellow...

It will be a daily driver & my sole car.

Annual mileage likely to be 12k to 18k miles a year. Unlikely to be tracked.

Keen to hear views for & against, especially from those with PCCBs on 991.2s.

Cheers,

Simon

Your stopping power is limited by your tires, not your brakes unless you are doing repeated hard braking for a period of time like on a track or driving spirited in the Alps. Even then, the steel brakes are very good. The 991.2 Base brakes are the same as the 991.1 S. You don't need PCCBs for a daily driver. You wont notice the unsprung weight reduction of the PCCBs on the street. The standard steel brakes are fantastic.

If money is no object, you don't like the brake dust or your car is yellow and the caliper color is a nice accent, then get the PCCBs. I'd skip it. One man's opinion.

Thanks, subshooter. Not quite 'money no object' but I can afford to spec the PCCBs comfortably. I love the look of them, think they'd go great with a Racing Yellow T and the lack of brake dust is a nice to have. And I understand that they should last a very long time if the car is rarely/never tracked & they're taken care of when changing tyres etc.

Very little, if any, difference in street driving.

For noticeably better braking (and cornering too), fit a winter wheel & tyre set between 1 Nov and 31 March.
Costs less than PCCB and for £250 per year, your OPC will provide a hoteling arrangement - 2 wheel changes and storage of whichever set isn't been used.

Not sure where in UK you are but even here in the home counties it's cold enough to benefit from a set of winters.

Sorry for going off on a tangent.

I think the biggest question, since all P-car brakes are superlative, is:
1) will the PCCB be streetable, quiet, and offer comfortable feel
2) will they be durable and not chip during regular use
3) how long will they last?

My attraction to PCCB, is that for a small initial cost, they can give you a dust-free, lifetime set of brakes, that also is quite a bit lighter and can offer better initial impulse braking. Also, for some reason, the standard brakes look a little puny inside the rims. It's a shallow comment, but it does annoy me after seeing them side by side!

My fear of PCCB, is that they will be like the M3 system, which is uneven in modulation, noisy as hell, chip frequently at a cost of $15,000, and so on.

Thanks. Am in Swindon in Wiltshire. We tend to see little snow, but I do realise that winter tyres are sensible for the winter months, even if there is no snow/ice on the roads. Cheers, Simon

Thank you. I agree with all of this:

"My attraction to PCCB, is that for a small initial cost, they can give you a dust-free, lifetime set of brakes, that also is quite a bit lighter and can offer better initial impulse braking. Also, for some reason, the standard brakes look a little puny inside the rims. It's a shallow comment, but it does annoy me after seeing them side by side!"

I'm hoping to hear ideally from some 991.2 owners who may have PCCBs fitted. :) Cheers, Simon

This is one of those things that goes to the way you will think about your purchase afterwards. It does not sound like you NEED them, but it sounds like you WANT them. As the cost is not a defining factor, if you do not get them, you will always think in the back of your mind later "maybe I should have gotten the PCCB brakes after all... Go for it!

You are a mind reader! :) Thank you.

My only concern is to hear from drivers in a 991 (ideally 991.2) as to any issues they've had with PCCBs.

Cheers, Simon

I'd never had PCCB brakes until my last car, a 991.2 TTS, on which they came standard. I'd have honestly never known the difference otherwise. I had been perfectly happy with Porsche steels both on and off track.
Brake dustless and looks aside, I simply fell in love with the pedal feel of PCCB over steel brakes.
PCCB was the first box I checked on my new 991.2 build without any second thoughts.

:cheers:

This gets thrown around a lot it seems. The 991.1 S brakes are NOT the same as the 991.2 base brakes.

Great to hear! Thank you, 1Gunner. And presumably no adverse issues with the PCCBs on your Turbo S, like stones getting caught etc?

Cheers,

Simon

Thank you, Dennis. That is good to hear! :) Cheers,Simon

Stones getting caught was MUCH more of an issue in my 991.1 TT with Red steels, not so much with PCCB.

Thanks again, Dennis. If you guys can live with it, and order PCCBs on your next Porsche, then I will certainly live with it too. :)

It sounds from folks who actually have PCCBs on their 991s that the feedback is overwhelmingly positive!

Thanks again, 1Gunner. This is really good to hear. I really appreciate hearing back from you guys.

Am leaning much more toward the PCCBs now. :)

Yet more positive feedback on the PCCBs! Thank you, Hurricane. :)

First set of PCCB's for me too is on my current Turbo S. Have had 12 other Porsche's all with steel. I agree with Gunner the brake feel on the PCCB's once you get used to them is fantastic. The no brake dust issue is secondary but also great.

I have decided that if I order a T I will for sure get it with PCCBs (and LWBs). I think that car needs/deserves them. If I order a Base or an S then no.

Full disclosure: My opinion means nothing.

The Carrera T is the lightest and least powerful Porsche ever to offer the full-size (410mm) PCCB's. They'll last forever with your use (and would even last if you decide to put the car on a track). I happen to like overkill brakes (have 930 Turbo 4-piston Brembos on my 1,890 pound 911 - but that was for track use).

The only reason I would skip PCCB's is the fear of having to replace the rotors (over $20k) - that's why I skipped them on my GT3. This should not be a concern for you. Sounds like they would perfectly fit the bill for you :thumbup:

More great feedback! Thank you, Penn4S! Looks like I'll be adding PCCBs to my Carrera T order on Monday! :)

Cheers, Grant. Yes, I've heard of about £14k over here to replace them. UK = discs. US = rotors! Although I guess one option would be to replace with steel (iron?) if needed & retain the calipers.

Another vote for PCCBs then! :thumbup:

Correct, and recently confirmed by an engineer at the T press launch because I've read it so much I wondered if it was true. They are not the same.

Another reason to upgrade to PCCBs! :thumbup:

I saw a Nick Murray video where he said it was a shame that they didn't put the 991.2 C2S brakes on the Carrera T.

My $0.02 - I didn't check the box for PCCBs on my T order - for some of the reasons already stated (cost to replace, noise, etc). We all have to keep in mind that the steel brakes on the T are by most standards great! They are certainly better than what was on my base 993, and that car went 22 years with a single rotor change on 100% street use (albeit spirited) -- I never once ever had cause to doubt the brakes on my 993 -- and it's actually about the same mass as the T.

For a street car, PCCBs are an expensive cosmetic option. I don't fault anyone for choosing them - as many of the "options" on our cars are cosmetic. It's part of how we individualize them to ourselves.

I also suspect we'll see new tech in the 992. Has anyone read about the PSCBs on the Cayenne:

https://blog.caranddriver.com/in-dep...coated-brakes/

I'm a mechanical engineer by training...these are highly likely to be compatible with the base brakes on the T (and the PCCBs) with a rotor & pad swap in the future.

sean

Do it.
Can't recommend enough.
If you don't, you will regret it.
IF you do, you can always sell and recoup $ by selling rotors and convert to irons.

I have a new RY GT3.2 and PCCBs was the first box i ticked and i would do the same with the T..The yellow calipers look much better with the RY paintwork although this is purely personal..The problem with the standard T's steel brakes is they are the same as the standard 370 hp version and not the upgraded S brakes..When Pete Stout drove the T he was surprised how the standard steels underperformed and if he was getting a T he would definitely choose PCCBs and i agree with him.The cost to upgrade offer the best value of all the 991s as you are upgrading from the smallest steel brakes upto the top spec 410/390 mm PCCBs which incidentally are the same as the 918.
In the future T's with PCCBs will be very desirable and will recoup most if not all of the £6k extra they cost new..

FWIW, I would NEVER have powder coated my winter wheels white if it wasn't for the thousands of miles of brake dust free driving I've already done in my car. Notwithstanding all of the mechanical and stopping advantages, you simply cannot overstate the sheer joy of always seeing your wheels clean. For me dirty wheels aways facilitated a car wash even before the rest of the car merited one. Now the car always feels cleaner than it actually is because the wheels are spotless. I enjoy the car more and wash it less. Win-Win in my opinion! Does this look like a car that's past due for a bath?

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...70c668e278.jpg

Not sure if anyone else has said this or if you're aware of. A car with PCCB damping/ rebound is much better due to unweighted load on the suspension. The shock and spring have to work much less.
I can write a book on this but it's substantial difference to me personally when i drive a gt3 w/ them or jump another one with them not on.
When driving on the mtn roads or when on track, i can feel it. Steering response as well... like i said i can write a book. Just do it :)

I think it's good you started this thread, as it will help T customers as well as Carrera customers.

You're looking for opinions on PCCB or no, so here are mine:

1. If I could only keep ONE extra cost option on my 2018 Carrera, PCCB would be the one.
Those who say it doesn't make any difference on the street are baked. I feel the PCCBs every time I drive the car, mainly in the immediacy of the response. And I find it delicious. Some say that immediacy makes it tough to heel-toe, as the PCCB are sensitive, but I think that's a matter of learning the muscle memory. YMMV. Again, we are talking opinions here, and there's a reason they're optional. Next, their fade resistance when hammered hard on back roads is unquestionable, and I have now gotten the standard brakes hotter than I'd like on three continents. Both the smell and the pedal were less than reassuring, though I did not experience actual fade. Perhaps I warded it off by changing my driving style, but it's never fun to drive for the brakes. I also like clean wheels, and PCCB helps tremendously here. And finally, yes, I like the little thrill that goes through me when I notice those giant discs and calipers behind the wheel spokes—filling out the wheels. Maybe that's shallow, but hardware is always sexy. To me, much sexier than aero kits and other add-ons.

2. What about the noise on the street??
What noise? Mine have been very quiet for the last 2800 miles, only exhibiting some squeal once or twice and not that bad. My GT4 on iron rotors was worse. Maybe that will change with time. We'll see.

3. What about the costs, both up front and in terms of risk?
I viewed the up front cost in terms of what an aftermarket upgrade would cost me, such as those from Brembo on Tire Rack, etc. And suddenly PCCB looked like very good value—and is engineered by Weissach and comes within the new car warranty. Of course, there are risks. I mitigate the chipped rotor thing by buying the installation pegs from my dealer, and will probably note track the car—so in terms of replacement costs, PCCBs come out ahead of iron rotors as they should last a long, long time. Now, what about if I do track the car, or get a rock between the caliper or pad and the rotor? Yeah, that's a risk and a scary one, given the replacement costs. There are options, however, from a switch to iron rotors that will work with the PCCB caliper to a refurbished PCCB rotor to a different CCB rotor from Racing Brake.

The bottom line:
I weighed everything, and took the plunge. 2800 miles and a few months later, if I could only keep one extra-cost option out of all those I selected, it would be PCCB. The only "option" like better than PCCB is the manual gearbox, which was actually "free." YMMV...

P.S. Oh, and your T is going to be yellow? So the calipers will look good with it? What are you waiting for again? ;)

If you can deal with this kind of damage, then go for the PCCB's. If not, then at least consider it.

https://rennlist.com/forums/991/1037...t-so-good.html

39,000 miles with them on my 991.1 targa 4S. Love them,... a 911 'must have' for me.

I have them on my 2018 GTS, and I will differ with people here. They do make a difference on the street. When you travel over a bump or a rough spot, the recovery is much quicker and the car gets less unsettled. I assume due to do lower unsprung weight.

I have them and agree with the get them camp. Feel great, look great, no noise, and no dust.
Eric

If you can, drive both at a Porsche experience, or see if anyone on here lives near you. I drove cars with steel or PCCB, and when I ordered my car, I felt good about the PCCBs, and am going in eyes wide open. It's definitely a personal choice though- those steel ones do the job, but I fully appreciate the initial bite of the carbons. But I don't usually drive for comfort, and I REALLY don't like brake fade...

incidentally, a couple trips to PEC cured me of my desire to get a manual- I love rowing my own, but when you are REALLY hustling through the turns, it left me able to just concentrate on apexes and weight transfer more.

I had the first generation PCCB's on my 2005 launch car 997.1S . One year later and 9K miles they were perfect despite all the complaints I heard from others. The rest of my cars did not have them and I never suffered by lacking them either . When I modded my 07 turbo I did go into the aftermarket Brembo . They are great but would not modify any of the modern 911's (just my opinion). Many have listed the benefits .The only negative I see is the cost . Add enough things to a T and one can make it nearly a GTS and an over optioned car faces the downside cost risk when selling or trading. A 125K T will compete one day in the used markets with 115K T cars as well as 105 K base cars to the average shopper. Porsche staggered pricing tends to bring the high spec car right into the next trim level and the over spec can even jump two trim levels.

So to answer your question .. would i get them .. if ordering and waiting hell yeah I would !! Would i buy a stripped lot car without them ? yep I would . Convenience has a price too. good luck in the decision.

Thank you!

I am going into the decision knowing that if I add PCCBs to my order, I'll get little of the £6k back at trade in time.

Funnily enough, I started by looking at a GTS originally, but then I stumbled on a T build slot.

The more I see about the T the more I love it! Feels like the perfect current 911 for me! 370hp in a 1,500kg car is just plenty for me! :)

And hopefully the T will be rarer than a GTS too...

I will post my final decision on here in the next day or two.

Cheers,

Simon

Get them !! I had overlooked your location. In the UK the market (new and used) is completely different than the States . The wait is longer , there are no lot cars , and used cars hold value differently (actually better) . Your T will be more rare in a location where it's a bit harder for the shopper to get the instant gratification of an immediate car . In terms of the car itself .. there is no dispute . They simply are better !! Whatever you decide I wish you the best.

Thanks again!

Yes, I'm hoping that a Racing Yellow Carrera T with the striking Carrera T interior pack (Racing Yellow) and PCCBs will be pretty rare over here! :)

Although I also appreciate that by being my sole car & daily driver, the mileage will hit the trade in value pretty hard, but you only live once!

Am now 99.5% going for the PCCBs! :)

Cheers,

Simon

"If you don’t mind your wheel barrels getting dinged, go for them. They really do perform great. Having said that, if I was speccing a yellow 911, I would most likely get them, stone problems be damned. The yellow calipers on your yellow 911 will look super!"

Thanks, flickroll.

This is my thinking:

* PCCBs will look great on my Racing Yellow Carrera T
* PCCBs are the best brakes that Porsche do
* As I'm unlikely to track the car, the brakes should last a very long time
* There are driving/handling benefits too
* I can afford them
* I'm prepared for a bit of damage to calipers/wheels if/when stones get trapped
* I understand that most of this damage (if any) will not be plainly visible until the wheels are taken off

Cheers,

Simon :cheers:

sounds like you are sold! I have only driven my GT4 with them for about 500 miles so far, but I love them and they look great too!

Simon, I'm just coming from a 991.1 C4S to a 991.2 TTS which I've only had for a month or so but to me the PCCBs feel significantly better than the steels in the 4S. I daily drive and I've found the PCCBs to be more enjoyable to drive around town on and much quicker to stop with less force on the pedal than the steels without feeling touchy. Also, it doesn't feel like their performance changes when they're wet (which it is often where I'm at). Between the performance, the lack of dust and the look I'm glad my .2 has PCCBs.

Glad to hear that you're enjoying the GT4. Awesome car! I fell in love with a yellow one at the local dealership!

You're right. PCCBs "sold" to the man in the Racing Yellow Carrera T! :thumbup:

Hi Super K.

That is another vote for the PCCBs and some really useful feedback for me. Much appreciated! :thumbup:

Enjoy the Turbo S 991.2 and don't forget to update your avatar photo! ;)

Cheers,

Simon

Done. I was hoping for a better photo just haven't gotten around to it yet.. I think you made a good call Simon!

Please spec your Carrera T like this! It does deserve those options. Then take meticulous care of it. Then call me in 2 years when you're ready to move to the next hot Porsche! :) Agate grey or carmine red would be appreciated.

Now that would be a unicorn.

White, m white, black, m black, guards, yellow, silver, lava & miami. That's your picking list

https://s26.postimg.org/l60fz1a89/Colour1.jpg

Simon, the wheel barrels will be visible with the wheels on the car, so over time I imagine you'd see the scrapes from small stones on the wheels. You most likely will not notice dings on the calipers however. Just wanted to set the record straight with respect to my experience with PCCB's. Relative to performance and little brake dust I love em!

Cheers :cheers:

Without a doubt, yes. Seems to go perfectly with the spirit of the T. If I were smart, I'd buy a T and be done. If only they had the option to throw in the old .1 motor.

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo....









Just kidding. :) You're going to love the car. Will be interesting to hear your feedback on the standard brakes with time.

Best,

Pete

I have the standard steel brakes on my 991.2 GTS and have no brake dust.

Satin wheels. If you can't see it, isn't there.

For a small upcharge, you can configure your yellow T with black satin wheels. Will hide the dust.

Just be ready, as the torque is going to be a huge upgrade over your 991.1 C2S—especially when counted from corner-exit rpm all the way to torque peak.

The .2 is a whole new ball game, wrapped up in the same great car. I'll be very curious to hear your thoughts on the chassis, engine, shifter, etc.

Congratulations!

Ordered a yellow T as well and tick the PCCB. March or April delivery in Sydney I think, can't wait!

Nearly same spec as yours, wish I can get something exclusive

HI Simon - What was the reason for going with standard brakes after all?

:D:D^ this^

Yep OP get the PCCBs, outside of the aforementioned positives... it just belongs on the T.
Cheers!

edit... Oops just say you already decided against the PCCBs.
It'll be a great car regardless, now the wait begins, good luck with that;)

Thanks, BlueNorther. I really like the Titanium Grey wheels on the T, so I'll see how I go with those... I could always get the wheels refurbed at a later date in a satin finish if needed.

Cheers,

Simon

"Simon, it’s going to be an awesome car and with the stock brakes you’ll be fine and will love the car. For the life of me I cannot figure why Porsche decided to go with 410mm rotors. 390-400 would have been just fine and the caliper/wheel interference issue would not have been a problem. Go figure. "

Thanks, flickroll. I agree. Maybe it's the 'bigger is better' philosophy, with regard to the 410mm front discs?! :confused:

Thanks, Pete. :) Very excited!! I look forward to posting my early impressions on here when my new baby arrives! :D

Cheers,

Simon

Congrats to you too! :)

With the 992 not too far away, I am hoping that the 911 T will be a fairly rare beast! And clearly, Racing Yellow is the best colour! ;)

Hi worldwidewebs

It was a number of things really:

* Number one was budget. Didn't want to stretch myself financially & take away some of the joy of my new 911.
* Didn't want to over-spec my car. I put £13k of options on my Panamera 4, which was too much really.
* As has been said, add too much to a 911 T and you're in GTS territory.
* The ethos of the T seems to be to keep it simple.
* The car looks great with the standard brakes, even though the PCCBs would have been more impressive & prettier.
* My motivation for considering the PCCBs was more aesthetic than performance related, if I am honest.
* The issue of stones getting trapped in the front wheels.
* The cost of replacing the discs if damage occurred.

Not to say that I wouldn't go for a GT3 with PCCBs in the future! ;)

Cheers,

Simon

Ha ha! Thanks, OC 991! :)

Cheers,

Simon

I'd just upgrade to Brembo later on down the road if the stock brake is really end of under performing. Aesthetically they look just as pretty.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...450d83b2b2.jpg

You won't regret it. Enjoy the car. I have owned a TTS (w/ PCCB obviously) and now my 981 Spyder. The steel brakes are truly fantastic! The no brake dust is nice of the PCCBs.... but I'm very very happy with my steel brakes. As you said, the point of the T is to keep it minimal.

I don't get it. Every photo I see of the centre console has the heated rear screen button present, as in Blue Flame's photo, and in the video, press release and brochure.
But, lightweight glass and heated rear screen are not mutually compatible according to the configurator.

Does this mean:
1. Every car shown so far has had lightweight glass deleted (I think unlikely as it's a USP for the T & GT2RS); or
2. Porsche always fit the button even if there's no heated screen i.e. it's a dead button.

Blueflame - are those PZero's or Michelins's on the car ?

Danke!

The stock iron rotors look to be pretty small.

No offense, but why are you ordering a 'T' then? It sounds like you've removed everything that makes the car special. Other than the decals, what differentiates your car from a base Carrera?

To begin with, SPASM and PTV which are not available on the base.
OP, my mum's from Pewsey just outside of Marlbourgh. Love your neighbourhood.

Perfect country for a "T". I'm envious of your roads.

+1. And the Carrera T interior package is rather nice too. Have you seen the interior pics on the configurator of yellow stitching on black leather with your yellow exterior? VERY NICE!