Pacific Northwest 991 DD in the winter
01-09-2018, 05:10 PM
#1
Pacific Northwest 991 DD in the winter
Hi all,
I hate leaving the 991 in the garage in the winter, but I'm not sure how to DD it given PNW weather which is generally in the mid-30s to low-40s in winter, but frequently too warm for winter tires. What do other PNW rennlisters do?
Thanks!
I hate leaving the 991 in the garage in the winter, but I'm not sure how to DD it given PNW weather which is generally in the mid-30s to low-40s in winter, but frequently too warm for winter tires. What do other PNW rennlisters do?
Thanks!
01-09-2018, 05:24 PM
#2
Rennlist Member
Actually, that is not too warm for winter tires. It is not recommended to drive on summer performance tires in weather that cold. Summer tires lose grip in weather that cold and, worse, they can crack and otherwise become damaged because of the cold. Get winter tires not only because of snow, but to operate the car in cold weather. You can try all seasons if they make a suitable size, but I have no experience with all season tires in the cold on a Porsche and they were awful in the winter on my Audi A4, VW Golf and BMW 5-series from a while back.
01-09-2018, 05:36 PM
#3
Rennlist Member
Should add, I am using Contis that came with the winter wheel set from Porsche. They are very good. Even in frigid NH temperatures, they grip well and I encounter no problems with traction even on slushy and snow-covered roads. I also have a 4s so that helps. The ride is also very good with the extra sidewall.
Last edited by AnandN; 01-09-2018 at 09:49 PM.
01-09-2018, 07:46 PM
#4
Advanced
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: South Puget Sound Washington
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
1 Post
I live in Olympia and DD a 991 Carrera 4 all year on Pirelli P Zeros as long as the temp is above 32F. Between 32 and low 40's the rubber is noticeably harder, but for normal street driving I have not had any problems. When the temp gets below 32, snow or ice, I drive the 4X4 GMC truck.
01-09-2018, 08:19 PM
#5
Contrary to conventional wisdom you are better off on performance tires than winter tires even in freezing weather, so long as you are not on deep standing water, slush, or snow. Then and only then you will be better off with winter tires.
To those who disagree, disagree all you want. I have watched far too many autocrossers running Hoosiers beat the crap out of people on all-season tires, winter tires, summer tires, even in freezing weather, pelting rain, and snow. Winter tires do make a huge difference in deep standing water, slush, and compact snow and ice. They are more resistant to hydroplaning. We get the deep standing water here in our famously rutted I-5 and 520. But having driven here 60 years, the biggest reason to go to a winter set is not traction but wear and tear. When it does snow, even though the snow is gone in a few hours, the sand they dump beats the crap out of your wheels, and the idiots who put chains on drive them 70 mph until they self-destruct. One year I had TWO flats, both caused by bits of metal from exploded snow chains. So you might find it worth going to a winter set to save your nice summer wheels.
If you do, your best results will be with narrower and downsized tires and wheels. Narrower, higher profile tires cut through standing water and slush MUCH better, even when only 10 mm narrower, you will feel the difference immediately.
To those who disagree, disagree all you want. I have watched far too many autocrossers running Hoosiers beat the crap out of people on all-season tires, winter tires, summer tires, even in freezing weather, pelting rain, and snow. Winter tires do make a huge difference in deep standing water, slush, and compact snow and ice. They are more resistant to hydroplaning. We get the deep standing water here in our famously rutted I-5 and 520. But having driven here 60 years, the biggest reason to go to a winter set is not traction but wear and tear. When it does snow, even though the snow is gone in a few hours, the sand they dump beats the crap out of your wheels, and the idiots who put chains on drive them 70 mph until they self-destruct. One year I had TWO flats, both caused by bits of metal from exploded snow chains. So you might find it worth going to a winter set to save your nice summer wheels.
If you do, your best results will be with narrower and downsized tires and wheels. Narrower, higher profile tires cut through standing water and slush MUCH better, even when only 10 mm narrower, you will feel the difference immediately.
01-09-2018, 09:42 PM
#6
Rennlist Member
Contrary to conventional wisdom you are better off on performance tires than winter tires even in freezing weather, so long as you are not on deep standing water, slush, or snow. Then and only then you will be better off with winter tires.
To those who disagree, disagree all you want. I have watched far too many autocrossers running Hoosiers beat the crap out of people on all-season tires, winter tires, summer tires, even in freezing weather, pelting rain, and snow. Winter tires do make a huge difference in deep standing water, slush, and compact snow and ice. They are more resistant to hydroplaning. We get the deep standing water here in our famously rutted I-5 and 520. But having driven here 60 years, the biggest reason to go to a winter set is not traction but wear and tear. When it does snow, even though the snow is gone in a few hours, the sand they dump beats the crap out of your wheels, and the idiots who put chains on drive them 70 mph until they self-destruct. One year I had TWO flats, both caused by bits of metal from exploded snow chains. So you might find it worth going to a winter set to save your nice summer wheels.
If you do, your best results will be with narrower and downsized tires and wheels. Narrower, higher profile tires cut through standing water and slush MUCH better, even when only 10 mm narrower, you will feel the difference immediately.
To those who disagree, disagree all you want. I have watched far too many autocrossers running Hoosiers beat the crap out of people on all-season tires, winter tires, summer tires, even in freezing weather, pelting rain, and snow. Winter tires do make a huge difference in deep standing water, slush, and compact snow and ice. They are more resistant to hydroplaning. We get the deep standing water here in our famously rutted I-5 and 520. But having driven here 60 years, the biggest reason to go to a winter set is not traction but wear and tear. When it does snow, even though the snow is gone in a few hours, the sand they dump beats the crap out of your wheels, and the idiots who put chains on drive them 70 mph until they self-destruct. One year I had TWO flats, both caused by bits of metal from exploded snow chains. So you might find it worth going to a winter set to save your nice summer wheels.
If you do, your best results will be with narrower and downsized tires and wheels. Narrower, higher profile tires cut through standing water and slush MUCH better, even when only 10 mm narrower, you will feel the difference immediately.
01-09-2018, 11:07 PM
#7
The Tirerack website makes it pretty clear that max performance summer tires (e.g., 991 tires) should not be used below 20 deg F:
"Note: Tires exposed to temperatures of 20 degrees F (-7 degrees C) or lower must be permitted to gradually return to temperatures of at least 40 degrees F (5 degrees C) for at least 24 hours before they are flexed in any manner, such as by adjusting inflation pressures, mounting them on wheels or using them to support, roll or drive a vehicle.
Flexing of the specialized rubber compounds used in Max Performance Summer tires during cold-weather use can result in irreversible compound cracking. Compound cracking is not a warrantable condition because it occurs as the result of improper use or storage, tires exhibiting compound cracking must be replaced."
"Note: Tires exposed to temperatures of 20 degrees F (-7 degrees C) or lower must be permitted to gradually return to temperatures of at least 40 degrees F (5 degrees C) for at least 24 hours before they are flexed in any manner, such as by adjusting inflation pressures, mounting them on wheels or using them to support, roll or drive a vehicle.
Flexing of the specialized rubber compounds used in Max Performance Summer tires during cold-weather use can result in irreversible compound cracking. Compound cracking is not a warrantable condition because it occurs as the result of improper use or storage, tires exhibiting compound cracking must be replaced."
Trending Topics
01-09-2018, 11:25 PM
#8
Rennlist Member
The Tirerack website makes it pretty clear that max performance summer tires (e.g., 991 tires) should not be used below 20 deg F:
"Note: Tires exposed to temperatures of 20 degrees F (-7 degrees C) or lower must be permitted to gradually return to temperatures of at least 40 degrees F (5 degrees C) for at least 24 hours before they are flexed in any manner, such as by adjusting inflation pressures, mounting them on wheels or using them to support, roll or drive a vehicle.
Flexing of the specialized rubber compounds used in Max Performance Summer tires during cold-weather use can result in irreversible compound cracking. Compound cracking is not a warrantable condition because it occurs as the result of improper use or storage, tires exhibiting compound cracking must be replaced."
"Note: Tires exposed to temperatures of 20 degrees F (-7 degrees C) or lower must be permitted to gradually return to temperatures of at least 40 degrees F (5 degrees C) for at least 24 hours before they are flexed in any manner, such as by adjusting inflation pressures, mounting them on wheels or using them to support, roll or drive a vehicle.
Flexing of the specialized rubber compounds used in Max Performance Summer tires during cold-weather use can result in irreversible compound cracking. Compound cracking is not a warrantable condition because it occurs as the result of improper use or storage, tires exhibiting compound cracking must be replaced."
01-09-2018, 11:39 PM
#9
It’s 45 degrees F. From tirerack.com’s website regarding the 20” OEM pirellis for a 991.1: “Pirelli's warranty does not cover tires that develop compound cracking due to use in ambient temperatures below 45° Fahrenheit (7° Celsius), so the P Zero, like all summer tires, is not intended to be driven in near-freezing temperatures, through snow or on ice.”
01-10-2018, 02:25 AM
#11
I just check the weather. If it's going to be below 45 or exceptionally nasty I don't take it out, and I get stuck with whatever car the wife isn't driving. (which means I get the sweet minivan usually) If you are up high then it will be colder, but I'm in the eastside "low" area so it's not that cold, especially during the day.
I'd actually be fine to pull all-seasons on it if they were available, but no one makes them. And winter tires are worse here--super rare to get snow, even more rare to have any snow/ice actually on the streets. Average daytime temp (just from living here) seems to be around 55.
I also use common sense and am overly cautious--I haven't figured out the actual limits in the cold yet. On the rare time I've had to slam on the brakes or turn quickly I haven't lost traction when cold much to my surprise. I wish there was a big paved car playground nearby to test in random weather conditions.
01-10-2018, 12:22 PM
#12
Thank you for all the replies.
For those not familiar with weather here, we get plenty of days when the temps are in the upper 40s or 50s too, and even a few in the 60s. There are very few days where it stays below freezing all day. I ran high performance winter tires my first year up here (was driving an M3 back then), and they were in pretty bad shape within 4 months. All seasons would be perfect for these winters, but nobody makes them for the sizes of tires Porsche sells.
Tangerine: Yeah that's what I'm doing too (and I live in the same general area as you), but there still have been far too many days I've had to leave it behind for my liking ;-) Fortunately I don't really mind driving our other car but I'd much rather be in the 911
For those not familiar with weather here, we get plenty of days when the temps are in the upper 40s or 50s too, and even a few in the 60s. There are very few days where it stays below freezing all day. I ran high performance winter tires my first year up here (was driving an M3 back then), and they were in pretty bad shape within 4 months. All seasons would be perfect for these winters, but nobody makes them for the sizes of tires Porsche sells.
Tangerine: Yeah that's what I'm doing too (and I live in the same general area as you), but there still have been far too many days I've had to leave it behind for my liking ;-) Fortunately I don't really mind driving our other car but I'd much rather be in the 911
01-10-2018, 10:14 PM
#13
5th Gear
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
strumbringer - I have a similar predicament. I'm located in the SF Bay Area where in the winter, temps range from 40s-60s, with temps occasionally in the 30s in the mornings or late evenings (outside of the city). My issue is I am using my car to go skiing up in Lake Tahoe once or twice a month (even that may be too ambitious). I don't want to ruin winter tires by running them all winter just to go up to Tahoe (although I did do that on my previous Macan Turbo with Michelin Alpins and they are still in decent shape surprisingly). Is the only solution to swap tires/wheels every time I go up? Seems like a pain, so wanted to see what other folks in similar situations do. Like you said, all seasons would be perfect for these winters (acknowledging they are basically 'no season' tires and they are not nearly as good on snow and ice as winter tires).
01-10-2018, 11:15 PM
#14
I don't know what happens at 40 below. Or even 20 below. Or even 20. I don't know how deep the water that Porsche calls wet is. I only know I have watched countless autocross runs between known cars with known drivers and known tires, and under those conditions the winter (or even all-season) tires simply do not have any advantage. Also they were driving. Not mounting. In Seattle. Which I thought is what we were talking about. Not Montreal.
As a few others have implied, tire choice is about more than the most severe conditions, its more about the balance among likely conditions. I have seen plenty of people here ruin winter tires in nothing flat because they bought them based on the same conventional wisdom thought process. I have never seen anyone ruin summer tires, except like I already said, being damaged by metal thrown off by people running chains when they shouldn't.
Well, probably those people felt they needed chains. Probably, based on driving ability, they were right to feel that way. In other words, its not the tires. Its the driver.
As a few others have implied, tire choice is about more than the most severe conditions, its more about the balance among likely conditions. I have seen plenty of people here ruin winter tires in nothing flat because they bought them based on the same conventional wisdom thought process. I have never seen anyone ruin summer tires, except like I already said, being damaged by metal thrown off by people running chains when they shouldn't.
Well, probably those people felt they needed chains. Probably, based on driving ability, they were right to feel that way. In other words, its not the tires. Its the driver.
01-11-2018, 03:17 PM
#15
Rennlist Member
Contrary to conventional wisdom you are better off on performance tires than winter tires even in freezing weather, so long as you are not on deep standing water, slush, or snow. Then and only then you will be better off with winter tires.
To those who disagree, disagree all you want. I have watched far too many autocrossers running Hoosiers beat the crap out of people on all-season tires, winter tires, summer tires, even in freezing weather, pelting rain, and snow. Winter tires do make a huge difference in deep standing water, slush, and compact snow and ice. They are more resistant to hydroplaning. We get the deep standing water here in our famously rutted I-5 and 520. But having driven here 60 years, the biggest reason to go to a winter set is not traction but wear and tear. When it does snow, even though the snow is gone in a few hours, the sand they dump beats the crap out of your wheels, and the idiots who put chains on drive them 70 mph until they self-destruct. One year I had TWO flats, both caused by bits of metal from exploded snow chains. So you might find it worth going to a winter set to save your nice summer wheels.
If you do, your best results will be with narrower and downsized tires and wheels. Narrower, higher profile tires cut through standing water and slush MUCH better, even when only 10 mm narrower, you will feel the difference immediately.
To those who disagree, disagree all you want. I have watched far too many autocrossers running Hoosiers beat the crap out of people on all-season tires, winter tires, summer tires, even in freezing weather, pelting rain, and snow. Winter tires do make a huge difference in deep standing water, slush, and compact snow and ice. They are more resistant to hydroplaning. We get the deep standing water here in our famously rutted I-5 and 520. But having driven here 60 years, the biggest reason to go to a winter set is not traction but wear and tear. When it does snow, even though the snow is gone in a few hours, the sand they dump beats the crap out of your wheels, and the idiots who put chains on drive them 70 mph until they self-destruct. One year I had TWO flats, both caused by bits of metal from exploded snow chains. So you might find it worth going to a winter set to save your nice summer wheels.
If you do, your best results will be with narrower and downsized tires and wheels. Narrower, higher profile tires cut through standing water and slush MUCH better, even when only 10 mm narrower, you will feel the difference immediately.