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Interesting article about warranty and modifications

 
Old 01-04-2018, 09:26 PM
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Default Interesting article about warranty and modifications

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Old 01-04-2018, 11:26 PM
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ipse dixit
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what's interesting about it?
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Old 01-04-2018, 11:32 PM
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Originally Posted by ipse dixit View Post
what's interesting about it?
my thoughts. +1
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Old 01-04-2018, 11:42 PM
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The article speaks the truth...I’d say it would be educational to those that modify their car. A lot of people say, but my dealer is mod friendly...however the warranty is with the manufacturer not the dealer.
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Old 01-05-2018, 12:48 AM
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Yeah times are changing... used to customize the hell out of everything Porsche without issue.
It was almost expected that 911 owners would want to have something done since more often than not is was a hobby/passion (not just a mode of transportation).
especially compared to Mercedes etc whom had no interest in doing anything other than wash/rinse/repeat/warranty work.

Now an aftermarket wing is borderline issue...really?
Two dealers even had Porsche Warranty Officer...
Basically a very unpleasantly dispositioned individual whom will tell you all the things you can not do to your 911 (as apposed too informing you of what possible alternatives could be).

I think it's short sighted as they are removing a vital part of the connection between man and machine... and they are leaving $$ on the table, but it is what it is.
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Old 01-05-2018, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by OC 991 View Post
Yeah times are changing... used to customize the hell out of everything Porsche without issue.
It was almost expected that 911 owners would want to have something done since more often than not is was a hobby/passion (not just a mode of transportation).
especially compared to Mercedes etc whom had no interest in doing anything other than wash/rinse/repeat/warranty work.

Now an aftermarket wing is borderline issue...really?
Two dealers even had Porsche Warranty Officer...
Basically a very unpleasantly dispositioned individual whom will tell you all the things you can not do to your 911 (as apposed too informing you of what possible alternatives could be).

I think it's short sighted as they are removing a vital part of the connection between man and machine... and they are leaving $$ on the table, but it is what it is.
My local dealer wonít even install a catback... or Michelin tires.

Thereís quite a few of us that went outside the dealer for purchase and install of tires for this reason. Oh that also cost them alignment business. This easily costs my local dealer 100k a year in lost opportunity.
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Old 01-05-2018, 08:42 AM
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This really has been common knowledge for years. If you modify part of your car and that modification results in a failure, that failure is no longer covered under your factory warranty. However, if you experience a failure and the aftermarket part(s) canít be linked to the failure, then the warranty is still in effect by law.

My dealer wonít install non-factory parts (understandable) but they sure didnít give me any warranty issues for an unrelated item when my car is clearly modified.

the bottom line is that you need to pay to play. If you modify part of your car, you have to be willing to accept that any failure caused by the mod will be your responsibility.

All seems pretty fair to me.
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Old 01-05-2018, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by ipse dixit View Post
what's interesting about it?
There is a lot of conjecture around opinions on the lengths that dealers go to with regards to diagnosing what caused the damage and there is some good data in the article that details this. The specific information is catalogues much better than the freaking out about "oh no, I might die if the dealer finds out I have clear corners" or "using a non Porsche approved floor mat will void my engine warranty!" that people here testify to.
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Old 01-05-2018, 09:06 AM
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Modify your Porsche at your own risk especially engine mods. My dealer in the past was OK with sending wheels out for powder coating, installing aftermarket exhausts etc. They are also OK with installing non-N spec tires. Mostly minor stuff.
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Old 01-05-2018, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by phow View Post
This really has been common knowledge for years. If you modify part of your car and that modification results in a failure, that failure is no longer covered under your factory warranty. However, if you experience a failure and the aftermarket part(s) canít be linked to the failure, then the warranty is still in effect by law.

My dealer wonít install non-factory parts (understandable) but they sure didnít give me any warranty issues for an unrelated item when my car is clearly modified.

the bottom line is that you need to pay to play. If you modify part of your car, you have to be willing to accept that any failure caused by the mod will be your responsibility.

All seems pretty fair to me.
Yes - we all know this and that hasn't been disputed. What hasn't been discussed redundantly is how the dealer determines if the modification caused damage - or even excessive wear.

There are also some good examples in the article of what modifications can have an impact on instead of the ignorant proclamation that Porsche engineers such and leave so much on the table for some kid in a garage with some plastic and superglue to start a tuning company to turn your car into a Bugatti Veyron.
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Old 01-05-2018, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by R_Rated View Post
Yes - we all know this and that hasn't been disputed. What hasn't been discussed redundantly is how the dealer determines if the modification caused damage - or even excessive wear.

There are also some good examples in the article of what modifications can have an impact on instead of the ignorant proclamation that Porsche engineers such and leave so much on the table for some kid in a garage with some plastic and superglue to start a tuning company to turn your car into a Bugatti Veyron.
The kid in the garage isn't trying to sell the exact same thing to the Chinese, the Germans, the Americans, the Russians, the Saudis, and 200+ other regulatory regimes. He has options that the factory engineers aren't even allowed to think about.

In other news, the World Car concept is dead, and the first manufacturer to figure that out is going to sell a lot of high-end sports cars.
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Old 01-05-2018, 11:14 PM
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Originally Posted by R_Rated View Post
There is a lot of conjecture around opinions on the lengths that dealers go to with regards to diagnosing what caused the damage and there is some good data in the article that details this. The specific information is catalogues much better than the freaking out about "oh no, I might die if the dealer finds out I have clear corners" or "using a non Porsche approved floor mat will void my engine warranty!" that people here testify to.
It does?

You have a very low bar.
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Old 01-05-2018, 11:46 PM
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I can never understand why people think a dealer would refuse warranty work out of hand just because of a modification. They don't do it for free, and work is work regardless of who paying the bill. If they have to submit it to PCNA, so what? They either approve it or not. The dealer has nothing to gain by refusing to pursue the warranty work.
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Old 01-06-2018, 12:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Gordon Shumway View Post
I can never understand why people think a dealer would refuse warranty work out of hand just because of a modification. They don't do it for free, and work is work regardless of who paying the bill. If they have to submit it to PCNA, so what? They either approve it or not. The dealer has nothing to gain by refusing to pursue the warranty work.
This. That article was a joke and that flow chart was pretty much an "idiots guide".
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Old 01-06-2018, 02:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Gordon Shumway View Post
I can never understand why people think a dealer would refuse warranty work out of hand just because of a modification. They don't do it for free, and work is work regardless of who paying the bill. If they have to submit it to PCNA, so what? They either approve it or not. The dealer has nothing to gain by refusing to pursue the warranty work.
OK... I'll bite.
I don't know how you have never been told something on a car is not under warranty?

Just as an example...
4 weeks after taking delivery of a brand new 991 the seat started showing excessive wear... they agreed it was not normal but...it was refused as a warranty item (got fixed anyway, it took A LOT of doing).
And it's not just Porsche whom will deny claims Range Rover, Mercedes, Ferrari, Bentley and many others do the same.

I can tell you first-hand that if you go in with an issue the dealer can (and sometimes will) say it's not covered by warranty, for whatever reason and they can come up with many (wear and tear, part of suspension component -when it's not- ,abuse, non approved mods etc etc.
Well the reason you brought in did not disappear....the only difference is you have to pay for it, instead of PCNA.

So now you have a choice... get it fixed at a Porsche dealer or at an Indy...
Indy will be lower price but... it potentially gives PCNA another reason to limited your warranty going forward even more thus creating a self re-enforcing predicament.
And with just cause, it's not easy to find a good Indy shop, more often than not they'll fix one thing but somehow you end up with another problem, or some lovely scratches, broken/bend clips, stripped thread, things over tightened, under tightened, crooked, wrong parts (but they made them fit anyway) etc.

How many owner are willing to go through that process until they find the right shop (especially when the car is still under warranty).
Nope, most will elected to get ripped off and just pay the dealer out of their own pocket...
Soooo the dealer gets paid one way or another... and what the client pays them directly is a lot more than what they would get payed by PCNA for the same job.

All this is pretty much common knowledge... ok clearly not to all, but it's no secret.

Last edited by OC 991; 01-06-2018 at 03:20 AM. Reason: clarification
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