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Would a 991.1 software tune work safely?

 
Old 12-30-2017, 05:15 PM
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maxpowers
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Default Would a 991.1 software tune work safely?

I saw the thread on here about the huge performance gains on the 991.2 posted in a youtube video and was wondering about improving the 991.1. I saw this, which claims a a 20hp and 15 ft-lb increase along with stronger mid range pull.

Would this actually work with no risk? Why wouldn't Porsche use the software that maximizes power right from the factory?

https://www.vividracing.com/catalog/...151361316.html
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Old 12-30-2017, 05:19 PM
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Noah Fect
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Originally Posted by maxpowers View Post
Would this actually work with no risk? Why wouldn't Porsche use the software that maximizes power right from the factory?
Gee, I can't imagine why manufacturers might have engineering constraints that aftermarket hackers and tuners don't.

This is the fallacy behind the snarky question that people like to ask on here ("So you think you can do better than Porsche's own engineers, huh?") The company's engineers have a very different set of problems to solve. They are trying to build cars that satisfy regulators in every market on the planet, which is how we get stuck with things like 718s here in the US.

Edit: also remember that the 9A2 engine is at the beginning of its life cycle. They have to sandbag it so they'll have room to dribble out a few more HP and lb-ft for the various refreshes/facelifts/special models that will be produced over the next few years.
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Old 12-30-2017, 05:45 PM
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I think that the CAFE is probably the biggest concern of all mfg's setups ..... not so much for the aftermarket tuners...
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Old 12-30-2017, 06:20 PM
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maxpowers
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Originally Posted by Noah Fect View Post
Gee, I can't imagine why manufacturers might have engineering constraints that aftermarket hackers and tuners don't.

This is the fallacy behind the snarky question that people like to ask on here ("So you think you can do better than Porsche's own engineers, huh?") The company's engineers have a very different set of problems to solve. They are trying to build cars that satisfy regulators in every market on the planet, which is how we get stuck with things like 718s here in the US.

Edit: also remember that the 9A2 engine is at the beginning of its life cycle. They have to sandbag it so they'll have room to dribble out a few more HP and lb-ft for the various refreshes/facelifts/special models that will be produced over the next few years.
I'm not being snarky with my question, just trying to understand what's going on. My concern isn't that an aftermarket company can add more power, but whether it can add more power safely and in a way that doesn't ruin the character of the car. What I like about Porsche is that the cars tend to be balanced with all the components working well with others. Considering they make cars based on the 991.1 with a lot more hp than the 400 my car produces I don't think 20 hp would upset that too much. I also don't care about mpg since I hardly put any miles on the car.

Do you think that this software update that they're claiming is completely reversable would be 100% safe with the car and would actually work? Does anyone have any experience with this or any other software based tunes for the 991.1?
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Old 12-30-2017, 06:32 PM
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Tunes on a NA Car are folly, especially when the engine is already fairly highly strung. The main reason to tune an NA Car is if you change other hardware the ECU might not know about, like headers, no cats, bigger intake, etc.

Would not waste my money on this. Could potentially LOSE power.
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Old 12-30-2017, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by maxpowers View Post
I'm not being snarky with my question, just trying to understand what's going on. My concern isn't that an aftermarket company can add more power, but whether it can add more power safely and in a way that doesn't ruin the character of the car. What I like about Porsche is that the cars tend to be balanced with all the components working well with others. Considering they make cars based on the 991.1 with a lot more hp than the 400 my car produces I don't think 20 hp would upset that too much. I also don't care about mpg since I hardly put any miles on the car.

Do you think that this software update that they're claiming is completely reversable would be 100% safe with the car and would actually work? Does anyone have any experience with this or any other software based tunes for the 991.1?
I can't find it now, but I think it was petevb who ran the numbers and created a graph that showed power versus time and MSRP in various Porsches going back two or three generations. It was a very straight line. Looked like something from a statistics text, but you could see the trend starting to waver at the end.

IMO there is a lot of safe margin for improvement in the 991.2 engine output as shown in Nick's video. Those engines will end up north of the trend line whether tuned by Porsche or the aftermarket. But the high price and minimal gains for the X51 option suggest that there wasn't much elbow room for the NA 9A1. At least not without running afoul of emissions and fuel economy regs in the all-important East Brungarian market or whatever.

Claims from some tuners that any software update is "completely reversible" and thus undetectable by the dealer or Porsche's warranty department are, of course, bald-faced lies. Such lies act as a useful signal to the wise shopper, or at least they should.





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Old 12-30-2017, 10:46 PM
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Thanks! That's good information. Watching Nick Murray's video on the 991.2 just made me think there might be some untapped potential in the .1, but I realize with the NA it's a completely different animal
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Old 12-30-2017, 11:33 PM
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Had the Cobb AP tune on my previous 4S. Did help enhance throttle response and did feel like the power came on earlier in the rpm range. No real noticeable hp gains. Not unusual in a NA car. I agree it’s really not worth the $’s.
Turbo cars, another story.
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Old 12-31-2017, 12:47 AM
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NA tunes mostly just advance the ignition timing a little to eliminate some of the factory's safety margin, and/or take advantage of 93 octane fuel. Gains are small, and if it's not done right you can get detonation (knocking), which is bad for your engine. The potential for detonation is why aftermarket tunes are riskier than factory settings. Done right, and matched to the right fuel, and they're fine.
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Old 12-31-2017, 05:53 PM
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Vivid Racing....lol.....those guys.....
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Old 01-15-2018, 10:31 PM
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I recently installed a Cobb tune on my 991.1. I went in skeptical and ready to return if I couldn't tell a difference. I asked a lot of questions upfront and the folks at Cobb were fantastic! After install, I did some 3rd gear pulls and sent the data logs to them just for good measure and they happily checked them to ease my mind.

Could I tell a difference? Absolutely! It's not that the power is insanely different, it's how it's delivered and, as someone else put it, eager the car feels comparatively speaking. Torque feels to be available sooner and the midrange smoother. Note, that I'm also running their PDK Sequential map so what I'm getting isn't just ECU changes.

I really like the changes when I'm doing spirited driving. The quicker shifting PDK along with the engine characteristics above really add something to the car. When I'm driving in Atlanta traffic, I'd say the stock PDK map is better and more flexible. The sequential map holds gears too long in this type of driving, so I typically put it in manual and paddle away. I have yet to try some of their other PDK maps, but hope they come with a sequential map that's less aggressive in normal, but works as it does today in sport and sport+.

Overall I'm quite happy and would buy it again. Support at Cobb is A+.
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Old 01-15-2018, 10:41 PM
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I love my 991.1 Cobb tune. Purely a DD never on a dyno or posting timeslips. I've wondered if most of the improved feel is from the throttle by wire response. Whatever, I don't care if feels like the car woke up.
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