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911 Carrera T

 
Old 10-24-2017, 12:20 PM
  #121  
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Originally Posted by Laguna_Dude View Post
too bad you can't turn off the nannies. that would have made it more special. problem with non-GT cars is you can't turn off TC; only stability control to a point and even then, it still intervenes during hard driving.
Well that sucks.
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Old 10-24-2017, 12:23 PM
  #122  
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I don't know why Porsche put so much emphasis on the weight reduction for this model as it's not even really the point. This is a tuner model. It gives the base 911 access to all of the best performance options (some are standard and some are not) as well as access to the bucket seats outside of a GT3. This is the track car for people who can't get a GT allocation. You can buy the powerkit from suncoast for $5,750 and it's only a matter of time before there is an ECU solution for non S models (Porsche might even allow the ECU flash on the T):

https://www.suncoastparts.com/product/992X51.html

You could build a better GTS for less money with a T.

The weight savings is merely part of the equation, but while we are talking about it lets look at it:

All 911's have curb weight quoted as the base spec for the trim with the exception of the GT cars which are quoted with all of the lightest options. A 991.2 GT3 has a quoted weight of 3116 pounds. That includes PCCBs, full buckets, and obviously no rear seats. The 911 T quoted weight of 3142 lbs includes none of that but all of it is available. If you spec this car as light as possible you would lose 44 lbs for the PCCBs, 5-10 lbs for the rear seat delete, and just over 40 lbs for the full buckets. That puts you with an end weight of roughly 3048 lbs with a motor that is easily tune-able to GTS power levels and it will be cheaper than a comparable GTS or GT3.

I have specced a base Carerra T with just the lightweight performance options and it comes out to $117,780 as seen below. Obviously you would probably select other options as well but I wanted to keep it comparable to the base price for the GTS.

http://www.porsche-code.com/PJDETDI7

If you then add the powerkit from Suncoast at $5,750 you are at $123,530 + a cobb tune for $1200 (to unlock the power from the upgrades) which you may not even need if porsche allows the reflash of the ecu for the carerra T. If you don't want to install the upgrades yourself it would add an additional $3k for labour which is pretty conservative. You are looking at a $127,730 car AT MOST. A base GTS costs $121,750 (with destination) before you add PCCBs and you cannot get the full buckets at all. Once you add just PCCBs you are up to $130,270 and you still don't have the full buckets, reduced sound deadening, or lighter glass.

I was skeptical as well until I actually looked into this trim. It is PERFECT for someone looking for the most performance oriented 911 outside of the GT cars.
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Old 10-24-2017, 12:42 PM
  #123  
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Where do you see porsche does weights based on no options spec for a Carrera?
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Old 10-24-2017, 01:06 PM
  #124  
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Originally Posted by Ryan_G View Post
I don't know why Porsche put so much emphasis on the weight reduction for this model as it's not even really the point. This is a tuner model. It gives the base 911 access to all of the best performance options (some are standard and some are not) as well as access to the bucket seats outside of a GT3. This is the track car for people who can't get a GT allocation. You can buy the powerkit from suncoast for $5,750 and it's only a matter of time before there is an ECU solution for non S models (Porsche might even allow the ECU flash on the T):

https://www.suncoastparts.com/product/992X51.html

You could build a better GTS for less money with a T.

The weight savings is merely part of the equation, but while we are talking about it lets look at it:

All 911's have curb weight quoted as the base spec for the trim with the exception of the GT cars which are quoted with all of the lightest options. A 991.2 GT3 has a quoted weight of 3116 pounds. That includes PCCBs, full buckets, and obviously no rear seats. The 911 T quoted weight of 3142 lbs includes none of that but all of it is available. If you spec this car as light as possible you would lose 44 lbs for the PCCBs, 5-10 lbs for the rear seat delete, and just over 40 lbs for the full buckets. That puts you with an end weight of roughly 3048 lbs with a motor that is easily tune-able to GTS power levels and it will be cheaper than a comparable GTS or GT3.

I have specced a base Carerra T with just the lightweight performance options and it comes out to $117,780 as seen below. Obviously you would probably select other options as well but I wanted to keep it comparable to the base price for the GTS.

http://www.porsche-code.com/PJDETDI7

If you then add the powerkit from Suncoast at $5,750 you are at $123,530 + a cobb tune for $1200 (to unlock the power from the upgrades) which you may not even need if porsche allows the reflash of the ecu for the carerra T. If you don't want to install the upgrades yourself it would add an additional $3k for labour which is pretty conservative. You are looking at a $127,730 car AT MOST. A base GTS costs $121,750 (with destination) before you add PCCBs and you cannot get the full buckets at all. Once you add just PCCBs you are up to $130,270 and you still don't have the full buckets, reduced sound deadening, or lighter glass.

I was skeptical as well until I actually looked into this trim. It is PERFECT for someone looking for the most performance oriented 911 outside of the GT cars.
You are assuming that the "S" power kit will fit the "non-S". Yes I see your caveat but still ......
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Old 10-24-2017, 01:07 PM
  #125  
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Originally Posted by evilfij View Post
Where do you see porsche does weights based on no options spec for a Carrera?
I shouldn't say no options but no light weight options which has to do with the legal definition required by the US in quoting curb weights. The manufacturer must use the heaviest weight of expected options by %. Because the GT cars are distinct models and are often specced with lightweight options, Porsche can quote curb weight with those options. For all other 911 models they have to use the heavier weight options because they are most often specced that way.
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Old 10-24-2017, 01:35 PM
  #126  
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Originally Posted by C.J. Ichiban View Post
I think it is great for people in that range. Issue is that I just configured a “super light t” and it was 120+ due to PCCB and bucket seats.
Yup. My build hits just over $127k. A lot of coin for a base Carrera. If it had a proper 6 speed, I'd still consider one though given all the GT3 nonsense, but I did not love the 7 speed when I test drove one.
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Old 10-24-2017, 02:42 PM
  #127  
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Originally Posted by C.J. Ichiban View Post
I think it is great for people in that range. Issue is that I just configured a “super light t” and it was 120+ due to PCCB and bucket seats.
This is the issue.

My preferred T spec runs $126k, and while I might order that car, a .2 GTS I could live with (less interior frou frou, no PCCB) is $125k with so many of the same upgrades plus a lot more power.
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Old 10-24-2017, 03:28 PM
  #128  
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I am presuming a discount could also be negotiated on a 911T... after all it's still a standard C2 and supposedly is not under limited allocations. I was able to reduce my ex-991.2 C2's 104k msrp down to 97k, for example.
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Old 10-24-2017, 03:38 PM
  #129  
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Originally Posted by stout View Post
This is the issue.

My preferred T spec runs $126k, and while I might order that car, a .2 GTS I could live with (less interior frou frou, no PCCB) is $125k with so many of the same upgrades plus a lot more power.
But no LWBs. That's one of the big draws of this car IMO, and the fact that, if one is comfortable with the power level, you can get a car with those seats, SPASM, RWS, SC, PCCB and sport exhaust for about $125k is a bit compelling. Like I said, 6 speed and it would have been a very intriguing possibility.
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Old 10-24-2017, 03:43 PM
  #130  
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Originally Posted by stout View Post
My preferred T spec runs $126k...
Curious to know if RWS would be part of your preferred T spec...
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Old 10-24-2017, 05:28 PM
  #131  
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Originally Posted by Archimedes View Post
But no LWBs. That's one of the big draws of this car IMO, and the fact that, if one is comfortable with the power level, you can get a car with those seats, SPASM, RWS, SC, PCCB and sport exhaust for about $125k is a bit compelling. Like I said, 6 speed and it would have been a very intriguing possibility.
I hear you. And, for someone who wants LWBs, I agree.

I test sat 981/991 LWBs vs 4-way Sport Seats Plus one last time before my GT4 order locked and chose the 4-ways. They fit my frame better and provide more upper body support than 981/991 LWBs do. They're also more adjustable, less expensive, easier to get in and out of in a car I drive daily, and were available with heat. They definitely give up something in "sense of connection and occasion," but I've never, not once, in 14,000 miles wished I had spec'd the LWBs. The 4-way Sport Seats Plus are one of the best Porsche street seats to date—up there with 1980s sport seats and 959S/RSA seats. And my T spec with LWBs would be pushing past $130k, at which point the GT3 MT is very hard to ignore at $144k.

But no two-seat 911 is for me in this season, as I need back seats for kiddos. And I prefer my 911s to have them anyway. You never know when they might come in handy, and they don't add much in the way of weight.

Originally Posted by Alan Smithee View Post
Curious to know if RWS would be part of your preferred T spec...
Nope.

While the 991's RWS system has become very, very good and adds noticeable stability under braking on the way into a bend while sharpening the car and "shrinking" its wheelbase...wait, why wouldn't you get it? Maybe you should. But I wouldn't on a Carrera-line car because time and miles in various press cars suggest the most fun 991.2 Carrera-line car is the simplest one, mechanically. I also like the challenge of balancing a 911 on the brakes on the way into a bend, and the "honesty" of non-RWS cars. That said, I think RWS is brilliant, in no small part because of how much happens at the back end of a 911. YMMV, and opinions are split even within Weissach. Not sure there is a right answer here, but I have little doubt that RWS will yield better lap times.
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Old 10-24-2017, 05:43 PM
  #132  
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Thanks, Pete. Again our thoughts align; while I respect RWS, having grown up on air-cooled 911s it is the challenge of 'getting it right' that entertains me and keeps me coming back to them.
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Old 10-24-2017, 05:45 PM
  #133  
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Originally Posted by stout View Post
I hear you. And, for someone who wants LWBs, I agree.

I test sat 981/991 LWBs vs 4-way Sport Seats Plus one last time before my GT4 order locked and chose the 4-ways. They fit my frame better and provide more upper body support than 981/991 LWBs do.
Interestingly, I did the same thing. Sat in both, preferred the 4 way SS+/18 way seats over the LWBs. My C2S has the 4 ways SS+. Then I bought a Spyder with LWBs because I liked the rest of the car. After driving in them for a while now, I prefer the LWBs hands down, and I have knee, leg, hip issues and wide hips. I don't know why, but the LWBs provide much better support and I don't get any aches from them, while my 4 ways start to make me ache after about an hour in the driver's seat. The LWBs are a nightmare to get in and out of and I don't think I'd DD them, but for a weekend car, they are fantastic. And I absolutely hated them when I sat in them at the dealership.
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Old 10-24-2017, 05:54 PM
  #134  
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Originally Posted by Archimedes View Post
Interestingly, I did the same thing. Sat in both, preferred the 4 way SS+/18 way seats over the LWBs. My C2S has the 4 ways SS+. Then I bought a Spyder with LWBs because I liked the rest of the car. After driving in them for a while now, I prefer the LWBs hands down, and I have knee, leg, hip issues and wide hips. I don't know why, but the LWBs provide much better support and I don't get any aches from them, while my 4 ways start to make me ache after about an hour in the driver's seat. The LWBs are a nightmare to get in and out of and I don't think I'd DD them, but for a weekend car, they are fantastic. And I absolutely hated them when I sat in them at the dealership.
^ Really good perspective, and a sign of both how individual seating preferences are as well as the anguish one goes through in making this choice.

I've spent several thousand miles in LWBs and have zero complaints in terms of comfort—they are truly great seats, also—but my upper back and shoulders aren't wide enough for them, so cornering support is merely okay for me. At that point, 4WSS make more sense to me, and I have yet to do a 12-hour day in the car with any aches...something I can't say for the 18WSS, interestingly. I asked a seat engineer about this, and he said, "Ja, natürlich—the 18-way seats have more motors, so less padding!" (Or something like that.)
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Old 10-24-2017, 06:09 PM
  #135  
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interesting how they put door pulls in this and not in the GT3... GT4 got them.
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