Just got a 991.1 S....Comparing it my F80 M3
#31
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Hey Everyone,
This is my first post. I recently got a 991.1 Carrera S. Im missing the PSE button...GRR...if anyone can tell me the cheapest Porsche dealership to get it installed in SoCal it would be greatly appreciated.
So I am very critically comparing the handling of the 991.1 to my F80 M3 and I feel like my M3 is better balanced. Maybe since this is my first rear engine car it takes some getting used to? The biggest difference I notice is that the front end seems bouncy (especially on turns). Yes I realize the obvious reason. But I expected the Porsche to feel more planted than the M3. Can anyone that comes from a M3 to a 911 relate to this at all?
This is my first post. I recently got a 991.1 Carrera S. Im missing the PSE button...GRR...if anyone can tell me the cheapest Porsche dealership to get it installed in SoCal it would be greatly appreciated.
So I am very critically comparing the handling of the 991.1 to my F80 M3 and I feel like my M3 is better balanced. Maybe since this is my first rear engine car it takes some getting used to? The biggest difference I notice is that the front end seems bouncy (especially on turns). Yes I realize the obvious reason. But I expected the Porsche to feel more planted than the M3. Can anyone that comes from a M3 to a 911 relate to this at all?
You will quickly notice that the handling of the 911 becomes much better with speed and takes some getting use to because of the rear weight bias. The aero probably forces the front end down more at higher speed too.
Ive taken some turns with my past GTS that scared the pants off of me. No normal person would ever attempt. Thinking this car will never make it and yet it did without a screech in the tires.
What I didn't like about the car is its unpredictable limit of traction at high speed. I attribute that to the torque vectoring system which makes the car handle so well that my senses are thrown off at the limit.
The unpredictability of its limits of traction is what really scared me. As you go faster the car gets better and better and better. I never crossed the edge of adhesion at those speeds but if one ever does that outcome won't be pretty.
Im finding that the new tech gadgets like RWS and torque vectoring elevate the adhesion of traction but reduce the drivers ability. So one needs to trust in a computer rather than natural feel of the chassis movements.
That loss of control has left me not wanting a newer 911 anymore. My 997, while not as capable gave me a much better feeling of control and believe its probably the last of its kind for a drivers 911.
The newer cars are just to capable. In a bad way of course. Engineers have figured out how to circumvent the flaws that made the 911 so great.
#32
I owned an F80 for awhile and loved it, not for it's perfection but all of its imperfections. The F80 is much harder to control imo as the rear tends to get loose very easily. This makes it fun but I was always nervous to push it since I feel like the engine overpowers the car. The low end torque is also something I wasn't crazy about in the F80 since it felt like an on/off switch. I really prefer a more linear feel. The F80 felt faster for sure, but I could never wind out the engine before I was at risk of being locked up. The 991.1 engine requires a different style of driving but overall it is more rewarding. I also did not care for how the F80 sounds like a ricer.
Although it's not really and apples to apples comparison since my 991.1 is a C4S, I would say the 911 feels much more planted all around. Even when I drove the C2S, I didn't feel like to had to worry about a squirrelly rear end that might ruin my drive.
In terms of comfort, the F80 wins all day. The iDrive is superior to anything Porsche makes, the seats are more comfortable, and the suspension is very soft in comfort mode. I could put in a long road trip with the M3 and be fine but it gets a little more uncomfortable in the 991.
Although it's not really and apples to apples comparison since my 991.1 is a C4S, I would say the 911 feels much more planted all around. Even when I drove the C2S, I didn't feel like to had to worry about a squirrelly rear end that might ruin my drive.
In terms of comfort, the F80 wins all day. The iDrive is superior to anything Porsche makes, the seats are more comfortable, and the suspension is very soft in comfort mode. I could put in a long road trip with the M3 and be fine but it gets a little more uncomfortable in the 991.
#33
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I owned an F80 for awhile and loved it, not for it's perfection but all of its imperfections. The F80 is much harder to control imo as the rear tends to get loose very easily. This makes it fun but I was always nervous to push it since I feel like the engine overpowers the car. The low end torque is also something I wasn't crazy about in the F80 since it felt like an on/off switch. I really prefer a more linear feel. The F80 felt faster for sure, but I could never wind out the engine before I was at risk of being locked up. The 991.1 engine requires a different style of driving but overall it is more rewarding. I also did not care for how the F80 sounds like a ricer.
Although it's not really and apples to apples comparison since my 991.1 is a C4S, I would say the 911 feels much more planted all around. Even when I drove the C2S, I didn't feel like to had to worry about a squirrelly rear end that might ruin my drive.
In terms of comfort, the F80 wins all day. The iDrive is superior to anything Porsche makes, the seats are more comfortable, and the suspension is very soft in comfort mode. I could put in a long road trip with the M3 and be fine but it gets a little more uncomfortable in the 991.
Although it's not really and apples to apples comparison since my 991.1 is a C4S, I would say the 911 feels much more planted all around. Even when I drove the C2S, I didn't feel like to had to worry about a squirrelly rear end that might ruin my drive.
In terms of comfort, the F80 wins all day. The iDrive is superior to anything Porsche makes, the seats are more comfortable, and the suspension is very soft in comfort mode. I could put in a long road trip with the M3 and be fine but it gets a little more uncomfortable in the 991.
#34
Advanced
I bought it from a Porsche dealer in the Northeast. Its a CPO car. The front pad had like 70-80% remaining according to the CPO checklist. So I don't think they did a brake job on it since the CPO checklist requires them to do so only if its less than 50% remaining. Or they bs'd me so they wouldn't have to incur that cost.
You start ignoring it (mostly) eventually
#35
Rennlist Member
I have had F80 , and prior E92
no way that any of them is more planted than a 911 S at any speed
in all honestly the 911 is in a different league for stability, balance , steering feel, brakes etc
only thing F 80 M3 has more is torque, related to FI , and being more practical for trunk storage etc.
no way that any of them is more planted than a 911 S at any speed
in all honestly the 911 is in a different league for stability, balance , steering feel, brakes etc
only thing F 80 M3 has more is torque, related to FI , and being more practical for trunk storage etc.
#36
Three Wheelin'
Be careful with that pressure if you go to the track or do some canyon carving, your tires are gonna get slippery quick.
#37
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At low speeds the M is going to feel sharper because the weight is over the front wheels. Equals to more over-steer and more planted feeling going into turns. Something most front engine car drivers are use to..
You will quickly notice that the handling of the 911 becomes much better with speed and takes some getting use to because of the rear weight bias. The aero probably forces the front end down more at higher speed too.
Ive taken some turns with my past GTS that scared the pants off of me. No normal person would ever attempt. Thinking this car will never make it and yet it did without a screech in the tires.
What I didn't like about the car is its unpredictable limit of traction at high speed. I attribute that to the torque vectoring system which makes the car handle so well that my senses are thrown off at the limit.
The unpredictability of its limits of traction is what really scared me. As you go faster the car gets better and better and better. I never crossed the edge of adhesion at those speeds but if one ever does that outcome won't be pretty.
Im finding that the new tech gadgets like RWS and torque vectoring elevate the adhesion of traction but reduce the drivers ability. So one needs to trust in a computer rather than natural feel of the chassis movements.
That loss of control has left me not wanting a newer 911 anymore. My 997, while not as capable gave me a much better feeling of control and believe its probably the last of its kind for a drivers 911.
The newer cars are just to capable. In a bad way of course. Engineers have figured out how to circumvent the flaws that made the 911 so great.
You will quickly notice that the handling of the 911 becomes much better with speed and takes some getting use to because of the rear weight bias. The aero probably forces the front end down more at higher speed too.
Ive taken some turns with my past GTS that scared the pants off of me. No normal person would ever attempt. Thinking this car will never make it and yet it did without a screech in the tires.
What I didn't like about the car is its unpredictable limit of traction at high speed. I attribute that to the torque vectoring system which makes the car handle so well that my senses are thrown off at the limit.
The unpredictability of its limits of traction is what really scared me. As you go faster the car gets better and better and better. I never crossed the edge of adhesion at those speeds but if one ever does that outcome won't be pretty.
Im finding that the new tech gadgets like RWS and torque vectoring elevate the adhesion of traction but reduce the drivers ability. So one needs to trust in a computer rather than natural feel of the chassis movements.
That loss of control has left me not wanting a newer 911 anymore. My 997, while not as capable gave me a much better feeling of control and believe its probably the last of its kind for a drivers 911.
The newer cars are just to capable. In a bad way of course. Engineers have figured out how to circumvent the flaws that made the 911 so great.
#38
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Spoke to PCNA today, regarding brake squeaking. They said its normal. The person I spoke to (and these folks seemed to be really well trained) told me that they have done trainings with the engineers about this issue. Her recommendation was to apply the brakes much harder and the squeaking should go away. Something about a break in period and where a film develops on the pad / rotor from not being used. I explained that my vehicle is CPO, not new and she said its still possible for a film to develop if the vehicle was not used regularly. That seems like it could fit my issue considering it was a 1 owner with only 22k. Its a 2012.
Also, I looked over my service records for the work that was done to bring the car up to CPO standards, and they did a brake flush. Oh darn, guess I gotta go slam on the throttle and brakes repeatedly this week, oh darn .
Also, I looked over my service records for the work that was done to bring the car up to CPO standards, and they did a brake flush. Oh darn, guess I gotta go slam on the throttle and brakes repeatedly this week, oh darn .
#39
mashhype I had the same initial feeling. The front end felt light. It was kind of weird. You get used to it but I get your feelings also coming from an M3 and had similar impressions.
As my 991.2 is RWD there is not a whole lot of weight on the front and an all wheel drive version would probably feel more 'normal' to you.
With more seat time you'll get used it and you will notice it is easier to come out of turns faster but the initial turn in can feel less confidence inspiring.
#40
#41
So I am very critically comparing the handling of the 991.1 to my F80 M3 and I feel like my M3 is better balanced. Maybe since this is my first rear engine car it takes some getting used to? The biggest difference I notice is that the front end seems bouncy (especially on turns). Yes I realize the obvious reason. But I expected the Porsche to feel more planted than the M3. Can anyone that comes from a M3 to a 911 relate to this at all?
I was sort of in the same boat as you. Picked up a 991.1S after owning several front engine sports coupes in a row. It felt like having to learn how to drive fast all over again since the handling characteristics of these cars are totally different.
For the first few weeks I wasn't sure how I felt. I knew it was "better" but I didn't feel better lol...
But as I got more comfortable with the car and started to understand/appreciate what it could do, I think I would have a very hard time going back.
I really wish I would have first had a proper introduction to these cars via a trained instructor or even a trip to the Porsche Experience Center.
#42
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Nothing is wrong. It's ok to be critical of the 911. Instantly saying he is trolling is what is wrong.
mashhype I had the same initial feeling. The front end felt light. It was kind of weird. You get used to it but I get your feelings also coming from an M3 and had similar impressions.
As my 991.2 is RWD there is not a whole lot of weight on the front and an all wheel drive version would probably feel more 'normal' to you.
With more seat time you'll get used it and you will notice it is easier to come out of turns faster but the initial turn in can feel less confidence inspiring.
mashhype I had the same initial feeling. The front end felt light. It was kind of weird. You get used to it but I get your feelings also coming from an M3 and had similar impressions.
As my 991.2 is RWD there is not a whole lot of weight on the front and an all wheel drive version would probably feel more 'normal' to you.
With more seat time you'll get used it and you will notice it is easier to come out of turns faster but the initial turn in can feel less confidence inspiring.
#43
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Congrats and welcome!
I was sort of in the same boat as you. Picked up a 991.1S after owning several front engine sports coupes in a row. It felt like having to learn how to drive fast all over again since the handling characteristics of these cars are totally different.
For the first few weeks I wasn't sure how I felt. I knew it was "better" but I didn't feel better lol...
But as I got more comfortable with the car and started to understand/appreciate what it could do, I think I would have a very hard time going back.
I really wish I would have first had a proper introduction to these cars via a trained instructor or even a trip to the Porsche Experience Center.
I was sort of in the same boat as you. Picked up a 991.1S after owning several front engine sports coupes in a row. It felt like having to learn how to drive fast all over again since the handling characteristics of these cars are totally different.
For the first few weeks I wasn't sure how I felt. I knew it was "better" but I didn't feel better lol...
But as I got more comfortable with the car and started to understand/appreciate what it could do, I think I would have a very hard time going back.
I really wish I would have first had a proper introduction to these cars via a trained instructor or even a trip to the Porsche Experience Center.
#44
Thanks sticky. Its reassuring to hear alot of you guys voicing my own intuitions about the transition from M3 to 911. And to be clear, no trolling here whatsoever. Just a enthusiast connecting with other enthusiasts to understand this beautiful machinery a little bit better.
Had the same feelings as you initially. Once you spend more time with it the balance starts to feel normal but I don't think I'll ever quite have the same feeling of confidence on initial turn it. Maybe I'll try the trail braking suggested. Probably will do AWD next time.
The best solution is to have both
#45
. Im finding that the new tech gadgets like RWS and torque vectoring elevate the adhesion of traction but reduce the drivers ability. So one needs to trust in a computer rather than natural feel of the chassis movements.
That loss of control has left me not wanting a newer 911 anymore. My 997, while not as capable gave me a much better feeling of control and believe its probably the last of its kind for a drivers 911.
The newer cars are just to capable. In a bad way of course. Engineers have figured out how to circumvent the flaws that made the 911 so great.
That loss of control has left me not wanting a newer 911 anymore. My 997, while not as capable gave me a much better feeling of control and believe its probably the last of its kind for a drivers 911.
The newer cars are just to capable. In a bad way of course. Engineers have figured out how to circumvent the flaws that made the 911 so great.
As my 991.2 is RWD there is not a whole lot of weight on the front and an all wheel drive version would probably feel more 'normal' to you.
With more seat time you'll get used it and you will notice it is easier to come out of turns faster but the initial turn in can feel less confidence inspiring.
With more seat time you'll get used it and you will notice it is easier to come out of turns faster but the initial turn in can feel less confidence inspiring.
Oh - cold tire pressures e.g. at 20 degrees celsius - 29 psi front 32 psi rear (for lightly loaded car in comfort mode).
Last edited by randr; 10-17-2017 at 12:51 AM.