From AWE, to FVD and FINALLY TUBI, the Exhaust Search is Finally Over
09-29-2017, 02:02 PM
#1
From AWE, to FVD and FINALLY TUBI, the Exhaust Search is Finally Over
After two months, four different exhaust configurations, and about a dozen times removing the rear bumper, I finally have a resolution.
I have a non-PSE 991.1 C4S and wanted an exhaust that was usable from a day to day perspective but a little louder and brought out more of the flat six wailing. The PSE sounded a little too deep for me, I wanted to get a little higher pitch and slightly louder.
Remove Vacuum line:
The first thing I did was free, unplug the vacuum lines. It was nice but not the tone I was looking for plus a bit of drone on the highway.
Based on the rave reviews, the cost, and some phone calls with AWE, I bought their Switchpath exhaust from TAG. This was the first time installing an exhaust on the car so it took me about 4 hrs from what I recall. Start up was a bit loud but I didn't mind it, driving at low rpms sounded great (stock sound but a little louder), and WOT sounded fantastic. So what went wrong? The RPM range when the valves first open up produces this resonance that is pretty unbearable for me and my wife. It's this boomy tone that give me a headache every time I wanted to accelerate. The wife started to hate driving in the car, so this just won't work. I removed the exhaust before it had too much usage so that it could still be returned and the stock system was back in the car. The swap out took about 3 hrs. The exhaust is still in transit back to AWE so I haven't received a refund yet but Carlos and Shazad with Tag have been helpful in facilitating the return of the exhaust since AWE was a bit more difficult to deal with directly.
FVD:
I then thought to look for a company that is a true German company that has great history with Porsches. That led me to FVD sport muffler made by M&M. I anticipated the arrival of this system more than any of the others. Although there aren't a ton of videos of the system, what I heard seemed to be perfect. Plus, when I spoke with Rhonda, she indicated that the exhaust would be very quiet at low rpms but would produce a wail as close to a high pitched F1 sound as one can get while still remaining civil during a daily drive. Plus we agreed on a refund on the purchase price as long as the exhaust didn't have too many hours on it so what could really go wrong? I paid to have it rushed delivered from Germany so that I could get it in the car for a road trip we have coming up.
The package arrived and the first thing I noticed was how heavy it was, shockingly heavy for just the center muffler. When I opened the box, I realized that it deleted the side mufflers so in total, it was actually super light compared to the stock system. The install took about 3 hrs since I had to remove the side mufflers as well. Then came the time to start the engine, wow, it sounded fantastic. It has a nice rumble to it and a really nice smooth tone.
I took it around the block and noticed that it was quite loud with a tone of resonance at low rpms and just blamed it on being a new exhaust with an engine that hasn't fully warmed up. The next day I drove it for about 30 minutes and it was awesome at full throttle but it was still unbearably loud at rpms between 2k and 3.5k. I really like the tone overall so I didn't want to send it back, off went the bumper to check that I had the vacuum lines tight. Just to be sure, I removed all of the elbows, connectors, etc etc off of the lines and reinstalled them. Buttoned the car back up and nada, still the same noise. Refusing to believe that it could possibly be the exhaust, I removed the bumper again to swap out the FVD supplied vacuum line with the Porsche lines. Nope, that didn't do it either. Rhonda recommended that I manually operate the valves while the car was revving to see if the valves were stuck so off came the bumper again. That when I noticed that the noise level between open and closed were roughly the same while revving at 2000 rpm to 2500 rpm. The tone changed but the volume changed only slightly. My theory is that by removing the side mufflers, it is too difficult to reduce the sound levels because there isn't enough distance for the air/sound to travel.
Fearful of putting too many hours on the exhaust and risking any issues with the return agreement Rhonda and I had over the phone, I removed the exhaust and returned it yet again back to stock. Not to mention my neighbors called and complained. It took me about 2 hrs to revert back to stock. As it turns out, they'll only refund me my purchase price if the exhaust is defective (never part of the agreement), otherwise I have to eat a 20% restocking fee (which was never mentioned). We are still trying to get this sorted out.
TUBI!!!!:
After reading DrCollie's posts on his experience with Tubi, I decided that this would be the last one I would try before just giving up. I called Tom at Champion Motor Sport and we discussed the issues I had with the AWE and FVD systems. He described it as a higher pitched Porsche tone with a sound level of PSE plus one. Ok, I'll bite. Except, I needed it the very next day. Bam, it was waiting for me the next day when I got home from work. The total install took 2 hrs including swapping out the side mufflers and meticulously getting the exhaust tips to line up perfectly.
I was very nervous to start it up and was preparing for a huge let down. This was not the case. Start up was a tad louder than stock, the cold start idle volume is about the same as stock, and the warm idle is slightly louder and deeper. I was still skeptical since the start up on the last few options were manageable. Then I took it for a drive... Nice and quiet just like stock when going through the neighborhood, my neighbors will appreciate this, we can be friends again. I gave it a little more throttle and it was exactly what I wanted. A bit louder than stock, a little more refined, but not obnoxious. After the engine warmed up and I laid on the gas. Bingo, this is just what I wanted. It is 98% perfect (the remaining 2% is wishing it were a few octaves higher but it's not a GT3 and it can't rev to 8.5k rpm).
I did run into one problem with the install, the metal strap holding the muffler to the bracket was prebent and the one on the drivers side sat too low and hung out the bottom of the bumper. I tried to reshaped it to slide back up but the strap was creased where it was prebent. Since I was done dealing with exhausts, I decided that if I were to shorten the bolt by cutting the excess off, I could hide it well enough not to notice. It was rubbing up on the bumper a bit so I bent the heat shield to go in between. It was now barely visible from 15 ft back. After I went on my test run, I went to take a look at it again and uh oh, this was not going to work. That bolt was super hot and the heat shield slipped back up into the bumper and left the bolt right up against the bumper.
I called Tom the next morning and described the issue to him and the very next morning (today), a new strap arrived at my house. Once I get home, I'll swap the straps out, pack up the car, and head out for our little road trip. Perfect timing.
Let's rate them:
I'll rate the AWE, FVD, and Tubi to give you an idea of my perspective on each.
Sound level under 3.7k rpm (10=Deafening, 1=Silent)
AWE: 5
FVD: 7
Tubi: 4
Sound level over 3.7k rpm (10=Deafening, 1=Silent)
AWE: 8
FVD: 8
Tubi: 7
Tone under 3.7k rpm (10=Perfection, 1=Migraine inducing resonance)
AWE: 7 (AT 3.7k rpm when valves open it is a 3)
FVD: 8 (It sounded great but in conjunction with the sound level, it was closer to a 2)
Tubi: 8
Tone over 3.7k rpm (10=Perfection, 1=Migraine inducing resonance)
AWE: 8
FVD: 9
Tubi: 9
Build quality (10=WOW, 1=shade tree mechanic)
AWE: 5
FVD: 9
Tubi: 10
I have a non-PSE 991.1 C4S and wanted an exhaust that was usable from a day to day perspective but a little louder and brought out more of the flat six wailing. The PSE sounded a little too deep for me, I wanted to get a little higher pitch and slightly louder.
Remove Vacuum line:
The first thing I did was free, unplug the vacuum lines. It was nice but not the tone I was looking for plus a bit of drone on the highway.
Based on the rave reviews, the cost, and some phone calls with AWE, I bought their Switchpath exhaust from TAG. This was the first time installing an exhaust on the car so it took me about 4 hrs from what I recall. Start up was a bit loud but I didn't mind it, driving at low rpms sounded great (stock sound but a little louder), and WOT sounded fantastic. So what went wrong? The RPM range when the valves first open up produces this resonance that is pretty unbearable for me and my wife. It's this boomy tone that give me a headache every time I wanted to accelerate. The wife started to hate driving in the car, so this just won't work. I removed the exhaust before it had too much usage so that it could still be returned and the stock system was back in the car. The swap out took about 3 hrs. The exhaust is still in transit back to AWE so I haven't received a refund yet but Carlos and Shazad with Tag have been helpful in facilitating the return of the exhaust since AWE was a bit more difficult to deal with directly.
FVD:
I then thought to look for a company that is a true German company that has great history with Porsches. That led me to FVD sport muffler made by M&M. I anticipated the arrival of this system more than any of the others. Although there aren't a ton of videos of the system, what I heard seemed to be perfect. Plus, when I spoke with Rhonda, she indicated that the exhaust would be very quiet at low rpms but would produce a wail as close to a high pitched F1 sound as one can get while still remaining civil during a daily drive. Plus we agreed on a refund on the purchase price as long as the exhaust didn't have too many hours on it so what could really go wrong? I paid to have it rushed delivered from Germany so that I could get it in the car for a road trip we have coming up.
The package arrived and the first thing I noticed was how heavy it was, shockingly heavy for just the center muffler. When I opened the box, I realized that it deleted the side mufflers so in total, it was actually super light compared to the stock system. The install took about 3 hrs since I had to remove the side mufflers as well. Then came the time to start the engine, wow, it sounded fantastic. It has a nice rumble to it and a really nice smooth tone.
I took it around the block and noticed that it was quite loud with a tone of resonance at low rpms and just blamed it on being a new exhaust with an engine that hasn't fully warmed up. The next day I drove it for about 30 minutes and it was awesome at full throttle but it was still unbearably loud at rpms between 2k and 3.5k. I really like the tone overall so I didn't want to send it back, off went the bumper to check that I had the vacuum lines tight. Just to be sure, I removed all of the elbows, connectors, etc etc off of the lines and reinstalled them. Buttoned the car back up and nada, still the same noise. Refusing to believe that it could possibly be the exhaust, I removed the bumper again to swap out the FVD supplied vacuum line with the Porsche lines. Nope, that didn't do it either. Rhonda recommended that I manually operate the valves while the car was revving to see if the valves were stuck so off came the bumper again. That when I noticed that the noise level between open and closed were roughly the same while revving at 2000 rpm to 2500 rpm. The tone changed but the volume changed only slightly. My theory is that by removing the side mufflers, it is too difficult to reduce the sound levels because there isn't enough distance for the air/sound to travel.
Fearful of putting too many hours on the exhaust and risking any issues with the return agreement Rhonda and I had over the phone, I removed the exhaust and returned it yet again back to stock. Not to mention my neighbors called and complained. It took me about 2 hrs to revert back to stock. As it turns out, they'll only refund me my purchase price if the exhaust is defective (never part of the agreement), otherwise I have to eat a 20% restocking fee (which was never mentioned). We are still trying to get this sorted out.
TUBI!!!!:
After reading DrCollie's posts on his experience with Tubi, I decided that this would be the last one I would try before just giving up. I called Tom at Champion Motor Sport and we discussed the issues I had with the AWE and FVD systems. He described it as a higher pitched Porsche tone with a sound level of PSE plus one. Ok, I'll bite. Except, I needed it the very next day. Bam, it was waiting for me the next day when I got home from work. The total install took 2 hrs including swapping out the side mufflers and meticulously getting the exhaust tips to line up perfectly.
I was very nervous to start it up and was preparing for a huge let down. This was not the case. Start up was a tad louder than stock, the cold start idle volume is about the same as stock, and the warm idle is slightly louder and deeper. I was still skeptical since the start up on the last few options were manageable. Then I took it for a drive... Nice and quiet just like stock when going through the neighborhood, my neighbors will appreciate this, we can be friends again. I gave it a little more throttle and it was exactly what I wanted. A bit louder than stock, a little more refined, but not obnoxious. After the engine warmed up and I laid on the gas. Bingo, this is just what I wanted. It is 98% perfect (the remaining 2% is wishing it were a few octaves higher but it's not a GT3 and it can't rev to 8.5k rpm).
I did run into one problem with the install, the metal strap holding the muffler to the bracket was prebent and the one on the drivers side sat too low and hung out the bottom of the bumper. I tried to reshaped it to slide back up but the strap was creased where it was prebent. Since I was done dealing with exhausts, I decided that if I were to shorten the bolt by cutting the excess off, I could hide it well enough not to notice. It was rubbing up on the bumper a bit so I bent the heat shield to go in between. It was now barely visible from 15 ft back. After I went on my test run, I went to take a look at it again and uh oh, this was not going to work. That bolt was super hot and the heat shield slipped back up into the bumper and left the bolt right up against the bumper.
I called Tom the next morning and described the issue to him and the very next morning (today), a new strap arrived at my house. Once I get home, I'll swap the straps out, pack up the car, and head out for our little road trip. Perfect timing.
Let's rate them:
I'll rate the AWE, FVD, and Tubi to give you an idea of my perspective on each.
Sound level under 3.7k rpm (10=Deafening, 1=Silent)
AWE: 5
FVD: 7
Tubi: 4
Sound level over 3.7k rpm (10=Deafening, 1=Silent)
AWE: 8
FVD: 8
Tubi: 7
Tone under 3.7k rpm (10=Perfection, 1=Migraine inducing resonance)
AWE: 7 (AT 3.7k rpm when valves open it is a 3)
FVD: 8 (It sounded great but in conjunction with the sound level, it was closer to a 2)
Tubi: 8
Tone over 3.7k rpm (10=Perfection, 1=Migraine inducing resonance)
AWE: 8
FVD: 9
Tubi: 9
Build quality (10=WOW, 1=shade tree mechanic)
AWE: 5
FVD: 9
Tubi: 10
09-29-2017, 08:50 PM
#3
Great write-up. I guess you do get what you pay for with the more expensive options (I remember Tubi to be pretty pricey), which makes me wonder how you'd like Akra.
The ability to do your own wrenching really opens up the possibilities of trying various different options - you would've been deep in labor costs otherwise.
I have the same exact car (non-PSE 991.1 C4S) and I actually really like the exhaust tone/volume; I'm driving valves open all the time though (your initial try). I'm not sure if this is my imagination but I feel like the exhaust tone got a bit better/more aggressive & louder after several track days with plenty of WOT situations. Don't have data to prove this.
I also have a feeling catless headers with regular non-PSE could be pretty magical but need a write-up similar to yours about catless headers (fabspeed, kline, etc), meanwhile I'll wait for my warranty to expire, still has quite a bit to go.
The ability to do your own wrenching really opens up the possibilities of trying various different options - you would've been deep in labor costs otherwise.
I have the same exact car (non-PSE 991.1 C4S) and I actually really like the exhaust tone/volume; I'm driving valves open all the time though (your initial try). I'm not sure if this is my imagination but I feel like the exhaust tone got a bit better/more aggressive & louder after several track days with plenty of WOT situations. Don't have data to prove this.
I also have a feeling catless headers with regular non-PSE could be pretty magical but need a write-up similar to yours about catless headers (fabspeed, kline, etc), meanwhile I'll wait for my warranty to expire, still has quite a bit to go.
09-30-2017, 02:28 AM
#4
Rennlist Member
Great write-up. I guess you do get what you pay for with the more expensive options (I remember Tubi to be pretty pricey), which makes me wonder how you'd like Akra.
The ability to do your own wrenching really opens up the possibilities of trying various different options - you would've been deep in labor costs otherwise.
I have the same exact car (non-PSE 991.1 C4S) and I actually really like the exhaust tone/volume; I'm driving valves open all the time though (your initial try). I'm not sure if this is my imagination but I feel like the exhaust tone got a bit better/more aggressive & louder after several track days with plenty of WOT situations. Don't have data to prove this.
I also have a feeling catless headers with regular non-PSE could be pretty magical but need a write-up similar to yours about catless headers (fabspeed, kline, etc), meanwhile I'll wait for my warranty to expire, still has quite a bit to go.
The ability to do your own wrenching really opens up the possibilities of trying various different options - you would've been deep in labor costs otherwise.
I have the same exact car (non-PSE 991.1 C4S) and I actually really like the exhaust tone/volume; I'm driving valves open all the time though (your initial try). I'm not sure if this is my imagination but I feel like the exhaust tone got a bit better/more aggressive & louder after several track days with plenty of WOT situations. Don't have data to prove this.
I also have a feeling catless headers with regular non-PSE could be pretty magical but need a write-up similar to yours about catless headers (fabspeed, kline, etc), meanwhile I'll wait for my warranty to expire, still has quite a bit to go.
09-30-2017, 01:50 PM
#6
Race Car
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Fairfax County, Virginia
Posts: 4,022
Received 3,874 Likes
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1,358 Posts
Glad you like the Tubi ! I've had mine on my car for 3 1/2 years now and would buy it again in a minute. Yes, its $ 4,600, but I enjoy it every time I start the car.
All those X-pipes are nonsense.
All those X-pipes are nonsense.
09-30-2017, 03:24 PM
#7
Race Director
I've had FVD/M&M exhaust before...very well made always sounded great.
I had Tubi on my 2009 C2S and the welds kept falling apart...total junk especially for the price
I had Fabspeed on a few cars, sounded great and no issues with the mufflers or welds...nicely built.
I know plenty of guys with AWE...no issues.
Akrapovic is another great choice of a well made durable great sounding exhaust.
I had Tubi on my 2009 C2S and the welds kept falling apart...total junk especially for the price
I had Fabspeed on a few cars, sounded great and no issues with the mufflers or welds...nicely built.
I know plenty of guys with AWE...no issues.
Akrapovic is another great choice of a well made durable great sounding exhaust.
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09-30-2017, 05:53 PM
#8
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Great write up. Any pics?
I'm looking for an exhaust that's about 1/2 way between PSE on and PSE off in normal mode, and slightly louder with PSE On / Sport. Many of these systems retain the stock side mufflers and delete the rear can. I don't want it that loud when open. Would you say the TubiStyle delivers?
I'm looking for an exhaust that's about 1/2 way between PSE on and PSE off in normal mode, and slightly louder with PSE On / Sport. Many of these systems retain the stock side mufflers and delete the rear can. I don't want it that loud when open. Would you say the TubiStyle delivers?
09-30-2017, 06:54 PM
#9
Race Car
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Fairfax County, Virginia
Posts: 4,022
Received 3,874 Likes
on
1,358 Posts
Great write up. Any pics?
I'm looking for an exhaust that's about 1/2 way between PSE on and PSE off in normal mode, and slightly louder with PSE On / Sport. Many of these systems retain the stock side mufflers and delete the rear can. I don't want it that loud when open. Would you say the TubiStyle delivers?
I'm looking for an exhaust that's about 1/2 way between PSE on and PSE off in normal mode, and slightly louder with PSE On / Sport. Many of these systems retain the stock side mufflers and delete the rear can. I don't want it that loud when open. Would you say the TubiStyle delivers?
Welds are gorgeous on mine, not issues years later, BTW. Here's when new...stock exhaust above it.
09-30-2017, 06:57 PM
#10
Banned
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Where aspirations are natural
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Great write up. Any pics?
I'm looking for an exhaust that's about 1/2 way between PSE on and PSE off in normal mode, and slightly louder with PSE On / Sport. Many of these systems retain the stock side mufflers and delete the rear can. I don't want it that loud when open. Would you say the TubiStyle delivers?
I'm looking for an exhaust that's about 1/2 way between PSE on and PSE off in normal mode, and slightly louder with PSE On / Sport. Many of these systems retain the stock side mufflers and delete the rear can. I don't want it that loud when open. Would you say the TubiStyle delivers?
10-01-2017, 02:10 AM
#12
Considering all the subjective opinions of these various products not sounding just right, the exorbitant prices of the ones that are consistently liked, and the dubious claims of performance increase the PSE I had retrofitted from suncoast seems to be the best option.
i had planned an upgrade of some sort, but now I think I'll sit tight with what I have.
i had planned an upgrade of some sort, but now I think I'll sit tight with what I have.
10-01-2017, 09:59 AM
#14
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Considering all the subjective opinions of these various products not sounding just right, the exorbitant prices of the ones that are consistently liked, and the dubious claims of performance increase the PSE I had retrofitted from suncoast seems to be the best option.
i had planned an upgrade of some sort, but now I think I'll sit tight with what I have.
i had planned an upgrade of some sort, but now I think I'll sit tight with what I have.
Factory PSE is pretty good, TBH. But not quite loud enough for me in normal mode.