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GTS Showdown Results - Total 911

 
Old 09-27-2017, 09:11 AM
  #16  
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Thanks for posting STG!
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Old 09-27-2017, 09:38 AM
  #17  
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Originally Posted by BlazinPond View Post
Don't understand GEAR CHANGE and why .2 scored so much lower than the other two.

Handling for 991.2 should have scored a few points higher than the others.

Regardless, seems a bit biased in measuring only a few things, but not others (tech, new performance options, fit and finish, etc.). And of those items measured, pretty subjective IMO.

I'm biased yes, but I drove both and subjectively scored both. 991.2 won in every category (and then some) except one (exhaust sound).
I did that before ordering a new one.
I agree with what you wrote. I have driven the 991.1 GTS and the 991.2 GTS and would take the 991.2 all day long. Not suggesting that there is anything 'wrong' with the other two, it's my preference. For me the .2 goes like a bat out of hell and from my point of view handled the best. Another example not shown on the scorecard but may be tied to 'driver feel' is sound. Having worked around industrial gas turbine engines in the energy industry for most of my career, I enjoy the whine of a turbine, but I also understand that many do not. So 'sound', like the entire 'driver feel' category is an entirely subjective metric.

Like many things numbers related, the outcome can be changed very easily by the person in charge of the numbers. If any of you have worked in the corporate world and have done work on survey results for example, you know what I mean. Or doing a cost analysis of a project, just change a couple of variables by sometimes a very small amount, you can get whatever result you want. I'm not saying any of the numbers in this 'survey' were manipulated, just pointing out the fallacy of totally relying on qualitative numbers.

In any event, I am not trying to say any one of the 3 is 'better' than the others, merely for me, the .2 is what I prefer. I understand why someone would say the 997 or the .1 is preferable. No big deal to me, just personal preference, and I'll buy based on what is important to me. I'll close by saying most of the metrics that were used are qualitative, not quantitative, and you can rely on those numbers any way you want.
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Old 09-27-2017, 09:39 AM
  #18  
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To each their own since most of the categories are subjective. My primary take away is that my taste and that of the authors of the review is quite different. But what do I know? Despite driving manual transmissions for 30+ years (including in a Caddy CTSV), I prefer the PDK over the manual, so I must not understand "driver feel" or "gear change."

Also, I'd like to know how throttle response was measured. Sure with the 991.2 if you pound the pedal at 2,000 RPM, there will be some very brief turbo lag. On the other hand, at 3,000 RPM you get instant response and lots more of it than on the old NA engine.
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Old 09-27-2017, 09:40 AM
  #19  
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Must put a plug in for the magazine too. You can order digital subscriptions or print ones. Here’s a deal for the print version!

https://www.myfavouritemagazines.co....-subscription/

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Old 09-27-2017, 10:13 AM
  #20  
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Well, just looking over the cars they tested, there's your confounding variable - the 997 was a manual, 991.1 was PDK, 991.2 was the new 7-sp manual.

Should have been all-manual or all-PDK
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Old 09-27-2017, 10:39 AM
  #21  
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All great cars. We are a very diverse owners group here with different tastes. Just enjoy our cars.

Someone like myself wants to own a car like this for the drama and experience. Something that moves me. It’s not a car to grind out the daily commute. It’s one to look forward to as an escape.

I’m not hanging out at the Nürburgring on weekends, and I’m not a pro driver. I’m looking for a driving experience that moves me and gets me excited to go out for a drive with no destination in mind. I like a car with soul and personality not gadgets and sterilization.

I think this is the perspective that many enthusiasts share.

If you’re a numbers and stats guy, you know who wins. Easy for Porsche to market those. The rest can be “subjective” which is fine by me.
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Old 09-27-2017, 11:06 AM
  #22  
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We just finished a 1400 mile road trip to Asheville and back in our .2 Targa. My wife commmented on how comfortable the car was compared to what she expected (we would usually travel that far in our S550 but it was to a PCA event).
I had a .1 TT and much prefer this Targa, but that's largely because I really don't like the concept of the PDK in a sports car.
What I don't see mentioned much is how much better the new PCM is with the Apple car play. After playing with it on the road for almost a week, it's much improved IMO.
I don't care about 0.1 seconds here or there, but to avoid the argument of bias, there is no way they should have compared a PDK to a MT. One or the other since we all know the PDK will always put up faster numbers. Or repeat it with a .1 MT v a .2 PDK.
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Old 09-27-2017, 11:11 AM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by Johnny5Alive View Post
This thread goes to hell in 3....2....

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Old 09-27-2017, 11:16 AM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by Keadog View Post
We just finished a 1400 mile road trip to Asheville and back in our .2 Targa. My wife commmented on how comfortable the car was compared to what she expected (we would usually travel that far in our S550 but it was to a PCA event).
I had a .1 TT and much prefer this Targa, but that's largely because I really don't like the concept of the PDK in a sports car.
What I don't see mentioned much is how much better the new PCM is with the Apple car play. After playing with it on the road for almost a week, it's much improved IMO.
I don't care about 0.1 seconds here or there, but to avoid the argument of bias, there is no way they should have compared a PDK to a MT. One or the other since we all know the PDK will always put up faster numbers. Or repeat it with a .1 MT v a .2 PDK.
Great point. All cars should have either or transmission.

FWIW - There was a power kit car at one point driving with us and a #2 car at another juncture in Asheville last week. Both had manuals and when we had WOT straights, I could pull on both of them despite my lack of power in comparison due to PDK. (I also did just fine in turns).

There is a 2013 991S vs 2014 R8 video and they even compared 0-60 times. The manual 911 list by .2 seconds to the DCT R8....
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Old 09-27-2017, 11:17 AM
  #25  
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Personally I wouldnt think twice before getting a 991.1 GTS over a .2. The N/A sound, future resale will undoubtedly be better being the last of the N/A cars, and imo .1s also just look better than .2s. I dont like the fussier new taillights with the uncharacteristic-to-Porsche arrow inner cut (while the .1 taillights smoothly fit the taillight indentations perfectly) and I prefer the .1 engine louvers and front bumpers (it all just looks more organic to me). Those photos of the front of the .1 and .2 GTS have me realizing that preference to .1 styling also carries over to the GTS cars.
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Old 09-27-2017, 05:46 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by K-A View Post
Personally I wouldnt think twice before getting a 991.1 GTS over a .2. The N/A sound, future resale will undoubtedly be better being the last of the N/A cars, and imo .1s also just look better than .2s. I dont like the fussier new taillights with the uncharacteristic-to-Porsche arrow inner cut (while the .1 taillights smoothly fit the taillight indentations perfectly) and I prefer the .1 engine louvers and front bumpers (it all just looks more organic to me). Those photos of the front of the .1 and .2 GTS have me realizing that preference to .1 styling also carries over to the GTS cars.
Finally, someone else who appreciates the utterly elegant lines of the 991.1. It's a work of art
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Old 09-27-2017, 06:36 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Shotgun View Post
Finally, someone else who appreciates the utterly elegant lines of the 991.1. It's a work of art
Agreed sans GT3... THAT car is gorgeous!
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Old 09-27-2017, 06:46 PM
  #28  
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Yeah 1 of each please.
Until then, I’ll stick with what I’ve got.
Haven’t driven a 997 or a .2GTS, hopefully I’ll get a chance to, eventually.
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Old 09-27-2017, 07:25 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by STG View Post

Long live the NA experience
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Old 09-27-2017, 10:04 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by STG View Post

I€™m not hanging out at the Nürburgring on weekends, and I€™m not a pro driver. I€™m looking for a driving experience that moves me and gets me excited to go out for a drive with no destination in mind. I like a car with soul and personality not gadgets and sterilization.

I think this is the perspective that many enthusiasts share.
That appears to be a very narrow view of an enthusiast.

There are many types of "enthusiast" for example your so called "sterilization" could well be my improved safe performance envelope.

I presume you realise, on any given weekend there are thousands and thousands of Porsche owners that drive their cars in everything from W2W, sprint series, auto cross, road rallys and hill climbs. Some are fully engaged in concours events.

The statement that you like "a car with soul and personality" is interesting, whose definition do you use for that phrase? Does the GT2 RS fit with that?

Have you ever driven something like a 997 Cup Car? It is a car that has a very high engagement factor and tons of personality and is loud to boot. However, most people would struggle to drive one well.

From my perspective the enthusiast church is broad, open and non-exclusive. Quite different from the "purist" perspective which is narrow non-inclusive and exclusive.
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