"Don't sell your GTS"
07-24-2017, 09:50 AM
#47
Pro
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: My garage, where else?
Posts: 621
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perhaps. Time will tell. However turbo (the model and configuration) cars hold their value perhaps the best out of all the standard Porsche production models today. The air cooled turbos go for insane money and higher relatve values than do NA air cooled cars. So who knows The number of cars produced is the best predictor and given that a 2017 991.2GTS will be very hard to get with only a 4or 5 month production period - that's the one to hold in my mind. Sadly mine is a 2018. Oh well I'll live. I have a 911.1 4s as well and it's great but the 991.2 is a real step up in capability. So 15 - 20 years from now when buyers are looking at the 991 are they going to NA or for the short period that Porsche boosted the 991's performance?
Furthermore, aside from the 1964 911 no first year 911 model is worth more than a last year model. A 1989 Carrera is worth more than the first year 1984 Carrera because of all the improvements made (G50 transmission, etc.) and certainly more sought after than a 1990 964.
A 1998 993 is a much more valuable car than a 1999 996, even though the 996 is the 'first' water cooled 911. The reason for that is that first year technology tends to stick around for a long time and get improved, whereas 'last' year technology is usually the pinnacle of Porsche's engineering before the paradigm shifts.
There are plenty of other examples, and I'm certain that if you were honest with yourself you would admit that for any car that you're interested in buying, getting the first model year has it's drawbacks. Ask any early 996 or Boxster owner how they feel about their IMS seal, or first-gen 991 GT3 owners about the connecting rod disaster. Time has yet to tell us what problems (if any) the new 3.0L turbo motors will have, and for that reason many see the value in buying the last and perfected iteration of a design like a 991.1.
Perhaps you might argue that the 991.2 is a superior car from a performance standpoint, and you would be correct. But my guess is that you will never be able to exploit that difference on the street in regular driving. If you've ever driven an aircooled Porsche vs. a water-pumper you would realize that there is a visceral difference. Right now if a customer wants to feel the shove of a turbocharged 911 motor they have years to keep buying new ones from Porsche. If they want to experience the scream of a nearly-new normally aspirated 911 where they can row their own gears, their only option is buying a used 991.1 (aside from a GT3).
None of this is to say that I think a 991.1 should be an investment. It should be bought and enjoyed.
Last edited by ibmiked; 07-24-2017 at 10:43 AM.
07-24-2017, 10:11 AM
#48
Race Director
Originally Posted by NoGaBiker
Bull$hit. You're going to put your money in a series of 5 more new 911s, each of which will cost 10k more than the previous one and lose you approximately $30,000 every time you restlessly flip it for the latest must-have. At the end of that 10 years you'll have lost $150,000 on your 911s, 30,000 more than the OP would lose if his 911 were to depreciate to $0.00 during that time.
That is what's "insane and one of the dumbest financial miscalculations I've ever heard of."
That is what's "insane and one of the dumbest financial miscalculations I've ever heard of."
07-24-2017, 10:14 AM
#49
Race Director
This isn't a value and appreciation subject. It's about having a car you're happy with and can enjoy for a long time.
Taste and enjoyment is subjective. Doesn't always mean having the latest and greatest every two years with trade-ins.
Taste and enjoyment is subjective. Doesn't always mean having the latest and greatest every two years with trade-ins.
07-24-2017, 10:45 AM
#50
it was actually introduced in 2014 and prroduced through full year 2016 True on orders but as far as anyone can tell the 991.2 is proving more difficult to obtain. I waited along time for an allocation as many here have lamented. It will be interesting to see the end result. Looking like fewer numbers of 991.2's given highly likely much shorter production period. Porsche 911 production numbers as reported by Panamera have been pretty stable and not increasing. I wouldn't necessarily hang on to a 991.1 for appreciation reasons is my point.
I can add to the fewer production numbers comment.
My local dealer tells me that there are only 26 build slots for the 991.2 GTS in the ENTIRE country right now.
07-24-2017, 10:55 AM
#51
07-24-2017, 11:36 AM
#52
it was actually introduced in 2014 and prroduced through full year 2016 True on orders but as far as anyone can tell the 991.2 is proving more difficult to obtain. I waited along time for an allocation as many here have lamented. It will be interesting to see the end result. Looking like fewer numbers of 991.2's given highly likely much shorter production period. Porsche 911 production numbers as reported by Panamera have been pretty stable and not increasing. I wouldn't necessarily hang on to a 991.1 for appreciation reasons is my point.
07-24-2017, 11:41 AM
#53
The previous Turbo models you refer to were all the very top of the 911 line of street cars. Now since all 911s are turbocharged (except GT cars) I don't think you're going to see that hold true.
Furthermore, aside from the 1964 911 no first year 911 model is worth more than a last year model. A 1989 Carrera is worth more than the first year 1984 Carrera because of all the improvements made (G50 transmission, etc.) and certainly more sought after than a 1990 964.
A 1998 993 is a much more valuable car than a 1999 996, even though the 996 is the 'first' water cooled 911. The reason for that is that first year technology tends to stick around for a long time and get improved, whereas 'last' year technology is usually the pinnacle of Porsche's engineering before the paradigm shifts.
There are plenty of other examples, and I'm certain that if you were honest with yourself you would admit that for any car that you're interested in buying, getting the first model year has it's drawbacks. Ask any early 996 or Boxster owner how they feel about their IMS seal, or first-gen 991 GT3 owners about the connecting rod disaster. Time has yet to tell us what problems (if any) the new 3.0L turbo motors will have, and for that reason many see the value in buying the last and perfected iteration of a design like a 991.1.
Perhaps you might argue that the 991.2 is a superior car from a performance standpoint, and you would be correct. But my guess is that you will never be able to exploit that difference on the street in regular driving. If you've ever driven an aircooled Porsche vs. a water-pumper you would realize that there is a visceral difference. Right now if a customer wants to feel the shove of a turbocharged 911 motor they have years to keep buying new ones from Porsche. If they want to experience the scream of a nearly-new normally aspirated 911 where they can row their own gears, their only option is buying a used 991.1 (aside from a GT3).
None of this is to say that I think a 991.1 should be an investment. It should be bought and enjoyed.
Furthermore, aside from the 1964 911 no first year 911 model is worth more than a last year model. A 1989 Carrera is worth more than the first year 1984 Carrera because of all the improvements made (G50 transmission, etc.) and certainly more sought after than a 1990 964.
A 1998 993 is a much more valuable car than a 1999 996, even though the 996 is the 'first' water cooled 911. The reason for that is that first year technology tends to stick around for a long time and get improved, whereas 'last' year technology is usually the pinnacle of Porsche's engineering before the paradigm shifts.
There are plenty of other examples, and I'm certain that if you were honest with yourself you would admit that for any car that you're interested in buying, getting the first model year has it's drawbacks. Ask any early 996 or Boxster owner how they feel about their IMS seal, or first-gen 991 GT3 owners about the connecting rod disaster. Time has yet to tell us what problems (if any) the new 3.0L turbo motors will have, and for that reason many see the value in buying the last and perfected iteration of a design like a 991.1.
Perhaps you might argue that the 991.2 is a superior car from a performance standpoint, and you would be correct. But my guess is that you will never be able to exploit that difference on the street in regular driving. If you've ever driven an aircooled Porsche vs. a water-pumper you would realize that there is a visceral difference. Right now if a customer wants to feel the shove of a turbocharged 911 motor they have years to keep buying new ones from Porsche. If they want to experience the scream of a nearly-new normally aspirated 911 where they can row their own gears, their only option is buying a used 991.1 (aside from a GT3).
None of this is to say that I think a 991.1 should be an investment. It should be bought and enjoyed.
07-24-2017, 12:36 PM
#55
Agree. My point as previously stated is the 991.1 should not be held for the valuation reasons. If you like NA sound buy it and enjoy. If you like added performance then 991.2 is the ticket. Any appreciation will be many years away and will likely be driven by scarcity as is almost always the case.
07-24-2017, 12:53 PM
#56
I have no idea on total production numbers, but I got on my dealer's list in the fall and when news broke on here back in January, I called him right away. I was able to get their only .2 GTS allocation for 2017 production. What that means I have no idea, I do know it didn't help with getting a massive discount!!! 
07-24-2017, 12:55 PM
#57
I have no idea on total production numbers, but I got on my dealer's list in the fall and when news broke on here back in January, I called him right away. I was able to get their only .2 GTS allocation for 2017 production. What that means I have no idea, I do know it didn't help with getting a massive discount!!!
07-24-2017, 03:10 PM
#58
Rennlist Member
07-26-2017, 02:08 PM
#59
Racer
ENJOY the 991.1 GTS ........... I enjoyed my 1989 930 cab for 27 years.......then decided to change...... Why care about the value when you sell it..... HAVE FUN NOW
