FVD 991 Turbo / Turbo S - Level 2 ( 660 HP / 642 TQ )
07-05-2017, 06:11 AM
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FVD 991 Turbo / Turbo S - Level 2 ( 660 HP / 642 TQ )
https://www.fvd.net/us-en/FVD9911004...hp-642-tq.html
Have anyone have any experience with this stage 2 kit, claimed 660/642? I spoke with a reputable tuner, not going to say any name, but he said that there is no way FVD can achieve this number without the 200-cell CAT and the header actually make the car loses power. It seems like a really good deal compares to all the other package out there and research shows that FVD is a reputable company.
Anyone who has this package can you share your experiences...
Have anyone have any experience with this stage 2 kit, claimed 660/642? I spoke with a reputable tuner, not going to say any name, but he said that there is no way FVD can achieve this number without the 200-cell CAT and the header actually make the car loses power. It seems like a really good deal compares to all the other package out there and research shows that FVD is a reputable company.
Anyone who has this package can you share your experiences...
07-13-2017, 07:19 AM
#4
Burning Brakes
Originally Posted by znammz911TTS
https://www.fvd.net/us-en/FVD9911004...hp-642-tq.html
Have anyone have any experience with this stage 2 kit, claimed 660/642? I spoke with a reputable tuner, not going to say any name, but he said that there is no way FVD can achieve this number without the 200-cell CAT and the header actually make the car loses power. It seems like a really good deal compares to all the other package out there and research shows that FVD is a reputable company.
Anyone who has this package can you share your experiences...
Have anyone have any experience with this stage 2 kit, claimed 660/642? I spoke with a reputable tuner, not going to say any name, but he said that there is no way FVD can achieve this number without the 200-cell CAT and the header actually make the car loses power. It seems like a really good deal compares to all the other package out there and research shows that FVD is a reputable company.
Anyone who has this package can you share your experiences...
My experience with US tuners had been to achieve that much gain in power from stock you need tune, upgraded exhaust with high flow cats or catless, and upgraded intercoolers.
Last edited by sdg1871; 07-14-2017 at 12:41 AM.
07-13-2017, 02:44 PM
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Definitely an aggressive power claim on stock cats. Would love to see Dyno results as well as results from drug testing to confirm such a lofty power claim from so little in mods.
My experience with US two nurses been to achieve that much gain in power from stock you need tune, upgraded exhaust with high flow cats or catless, and upgraded intercoolers.
My experience with US two nurses been to achieve that much gain in power from stock you need tune, upgraded exhaust with high flow cats or catless, and upgraded intercoolers.
Stock intercoolers are good up to 720bhp with larger VTGs for sure. Techart's 991 GT Street is still on stock coolers and numbers to back up their claims.
07-14-2017, 12:44 AM
#6
Burning Brakes
Originally Posted by Jean
I agree seems aggressive. FVD is a good outfit with ample years of experience and quite realistic dyno claims usually. Cats will impact area under the curve and response more than peak numbers per se, still remains a challenging claim, not impossible IMO.
Stock intercoolers are good up to 720bhp with larger VTGs for sure. Techart's 991 GT Street is still on stock coolers and numbers to back up their claims.
Stock intercoolers are good up to 720bhp with larger VTGs for sure. Techart's 991 GT Street is still on stock coolers and numbers to back up their claims.
Stock intercoolers do not have the in the cooling capacity to cool down the super heated air coming from a tune and bolt ons, resulting in unacceptably high intake air temps which will ruin the Turbos.
You will get one fast run and then the ECU will take you right back down to stock power -- unless your tune fools the ECU into thinking that it isn't experiencing unduly high intake air temperatures. But that isn't fooling anyone as You cannot change the laws of physics. Unduly high IATs will destroy the VTG turbos.
07-14-2017, 03:03 AM
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You cannot go anywhere near 720 hp on stock intercoolers unless you want one fast run only.
Stock intercoolers do not have the in the cooling capacity to cool down the super heated air coming from a tune and bolt ons, resulting in unacceptably high intake air temps which will ruin the Turbos.
You will get one fast run and then the ECU will take you right back down to stock power -- unless your tune fools the ECU into thinking that it isn't experiencing unduly high intake air temperatures. But that isn't fooling anyone as You cannot change the laws of physics. Unduly high IATs will destroy the VTG turbos.
Stock intercoolers do not have the in the cooling capacity to cool down the super heated air coming from a tune and bolt ons, resulting in unacceptably high intake air temps which will ruin the Turbos.
You will get one fast run and then the ECU will take you right back down to stock power -- unless your tune fools the ECU into thinking that it isn't experiencing unduly high intake air temperatures. But that isn't fooling anyone as You cannot change the laws of physics. Unduly high IATs will destroy the VTG turbos.
The Techart 710-720bhp is on stock intercoolers modified VTGs and ECU controlled boost, no fixed boost controllers, they might not be not my cup of tea, but I am using them as reference simply because they have 30 years experience in tuning and spend very considerable sums of R&D money behind engines and expensive wind tunnel aerodynamics tests. They could have upgraded intercoolers on the 991GTstreet R, yet they didn't, in my talks with their lead engineer last month in their facility, he discussed several tests that were done on stock vs. larger and different cores and couldn't see any substantial gains but more importantly, got their best lap times and 0-300 with the stock ICs. I see no reason for him to lie as they would make more money selling wonderfully shiny aftermarket ICs.
They achieve this power with race fuel however, stock fuel they found the limit at 680bhp. They run 23 seconds 0-300 kph with 300kgs downforce and considerable more drag than stock on this setup, the car is developed for the track, not high speed runs.
The current GT2RS is 200 lbs lighter and RWD with better aerodynamics, and runs it in 22 secs. Porsche still uses the same cores, slightly larger it seems. Water spray is there to help when the car is at peak load, because they have very stringent rules when it comes to delivering consistent lap after lap performance as a manufacturer. With that same setup most tuners would be claiming 900hp, the time of a 10 second dyno run.
For consistent performance on a race track, I would say 680bhp keeps the stock intercooler as the best choice out there bar none, except perhaps the ridiculously expensive ones.
I would love to see any like-for-like datalogs with IATs and EGTs, aftermarket vs stock intercooler on pump fuel at a race track for 10 laps. I would be the first to buy them, I run time attacks in 40C temps on the race track and this is my most desired mod if it delivers.
For this particular package, stock intercoolers would be the best option for consistent performance.
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07-14-2017, 02:20 PM
#8
Burning Brakes
Originally Posted by Jean
You're preaching to the converted 15 years ago about intercoolers, IATs and EGTs.
The Techart 710-720bhp is on stock intercoolers modified VTGs and ECU controlled boost, no fixed boost controllers, they might not be not my cup of tea, but I am using them as reference simply because they have 30 years experience in tuning and spend very considerable sums of R&D money behind engines and expensive wind tunnel aerodynamics tests. They could have upgraded intercoolers on the 991GTstreet R, yet they didn't, in my talks with their lead engineer last month in their facility, he discussed several tests that were done on stock vs. larger and different cores and couldn't see any substantial gains but more importantly, got their best lap times and 0-300 with the stock ICs. I see no reason for him to lie as they would make more money selling wonderfully shiny aftermarket ICs.
They achieve this power with race fuel however, stock fuel they found the limit at 680bhp. They run 23 seconds 0-300 kph with 300kgs downforce and considerable more drag than stock on this setup, the car is developed for the track, not high speed runs.
The current GT2RS is 200 lbs lighter and RWD with better aerodynamics, and runs it in 22 secs. Porsche still uses the same cores, slightly larger it seems. Water spray is there to help when the car is at peak load, because they have very stringent rules when it comes to delivering consistent lap after lap performance as a manufacturer. With that same setup most tuners would be claiming 900hp, the time of a 10 second dyno run.
For consistent performance on a race track, I would say 680bhp keeps the stock intercooler as the best choice out there bar none, except perhaps the ridiculously expensive ones.
I would love to see any like-for-like datalogs with IATs and EGTs, aftermarket vs stock intercooler on pump fuel at a race track for 10 laps. I would be the first to buy them, I run time attacks in 40C temps on the race track and this is my most desired mod if it delivers.
For this particular package, stock intercoolers would be the best option for consistent performance.
The Techart 710-720bhp is on stock intercoolers modified VTGs and ECU controlled boost, no fixed boost controllers, they might not be not my cup of tea, but I am using them as reference simply because they have 30 years experience in tuning and spend very considerable sums of R&D money behind engines and expensive wind tunnel aerodynamics tests. They could have upgraded intercoolers on the 991GTstreet R, yet they didn't, in my talks with their lead engineer last month in their facility, he discussed several tests that were done on stock vs. larger and different cores and couldn't see any substantial gains but more importantly, got their best lap times and 0-300 with the stock ICs. I see no reason for him to lie as they would make more money selling wonderfully shiny aftermarket ICs.
They achieve this power with race fuel however, stock fuel they found the limit at 680bhp. They run 23 seconds 0-300 kph with 300kgs downforce and considerable more drag than stock on this setup, the car is developed for the track, not high speed runs.
The current GT2RS is 200 lbs lighter and RWD with better aerodynamics, and runs it in 22 secs. Porsche still uses the same cores, slightly larger it seems. Water spray is there to help when the car is at peak load, because they have very stringent rules when it comes to delivering consistent lap after lap performance as a manufacturer. With that same setup most tuners would be claiming 900hp, the time of a 10 second dyno run.
For consistent performance on a race track, I would say 680bhp keeps the stock intercooler as the best choice out there bar none, except perhaps the ridiculously expensive ones.
I would love to see any like-for-like datalogs with IATs and EGTs, aftermarket vs stock intercooler on pump fuel at a race track for 10 laps. I would be the first to buy them, I run time attacks in 40C temps on the race track and this is my most desired mod if it delivers.
For this particular package, stock intercoolers would be the best option for consistent performance.
I posted Dyno runs and if I'm not mistaken in time sheets and videos all showing huge heat soak power loss With stock intercoolers.
I replaced my stocking aircoolers with champion intercoolers and no more heat soak.
I have felt both the stock and the champion ones and the champion ones are dramatically larger and heavier with many more rows and much thicker and more surface area for heat exchange. Stock ones were like paperweight light
07-14-2017, 07:42 PM
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Sorry I have not seen your logs..
I certainly know how stock ICs can heat soak on the race track, I struggle with it myself, but it does not mean aftermarket ones are better, at least I have not seen any proof. Doing similar laps with different intercoolers would bring that to closure. I don't believe in dyno sheets to rank ICs, it simply doesn't tell the story.
Stock ICs will do a better job than any other up to 2.6 bar absolute on the track and I would be happy to be wrong frankly. Beyond that you have reached their limit. It is not about cooling or IATs alone but about how fast it can dissipate heat. I have given above a clear example above how stock intercoolers serve the purpose for very high performance on track and high speed, and one should maybe question the tune quality if performance levels below these ones are causing such heat soak, just a thought , I am not saying that definitely is the problem, I don't know anything about GIAC's tunes or Champions other than they are popular.
If you have any back to back runs with both intercoolers on the track that would help bring some light
Looks or size or weight certainly do not make any difference to performance, material used and solid engineering do, that's exactly the point, and quite funny to see how tuners post professional pictures of the coolers like art pieces, and people fall for it yet no real life data whatsoever is given and it's all "secret".
If you have found what works for you, that's what matters, I haven't yet unfortunately, but back to the point here, no need for other than stock ICs to deliver sustainable performance at these levels with a good tune.
I certainly know how stock ICs can heat soak on the race track, I struggle with it myself, but it does not mean aftermarket ones are better, at least I have not seen any proof. Doing similar laps with different intercoolers would bring that to closure. I don't believe in dyno sheets to rank ICs, it simply doesn't tell the story.
Stock ICs will do a better job than any other up to 2.6 bar absolute on the track and I would be happy to be wrong frankly. Beyond that you have reached their limit. It is not about cooling or IATs alone but about how fast it can dissipate heat. I have given above a clear example above how stock intercoolers serve the purpose for very high performance on track and high speed, and one should maybe question the tune quality if performance levels below these ones are causing such heat soak, just a thought , I am not saying that definitely is the problem, I don't know anything about GIAC's tunes or Champions other than they are popular.
If you have any back to back runs with both intercoolers on the track that would help bring some light
Looks or size or weight certainly do not make any difference to performance, material used and solid engineering do, that's exactly the point, and quite funny to see how tuners post professional pictures of the coolers like art pieces, and people fall for it yet no real life data whatsoever is given and it's all "secret".
If you have found what works for you, that's what matters, I haven't yet unfortunately, but back to the point here, no need for other than stock ICs to deliver sustainable performance at these levels with a good tune.
07-14-2017, 10:07 PM
#10
Burning Brakes
Sorry I have not seen your logs..
I certainly know how stock ICs can heat soak on the race track, I struggle with it myself, but it does not mean aftermarket ones are better, at least I have not seen any proof. Doing similar laps with different intercoolers would bring that to closure. I don't believe in dyno sheets to rank ICs, it simply doesn't tell the story.
Stock ICs will do a better job than any other up to 2.6 bar absolute on the track and I would be happy to be wrong frankly. Beyond that you have reached their limit. It is not about cooling or IATs alone but about how fast it can dissipate heat. I have given above a clear example above how stock intercoolers serve the purpose for very high performance on track and high speed, and one should maybe question the tune quality if performance levels below these ones are causing such heat soak, just a thought , I am not saying that definitely is the problem, I don't know anything about GIAC's tunes or Champions other than they are popular.
If you have any back to back runs with both intercoolers on the track that would help bring some light
Looks or size or weight certainly do not make any difference to performance, material used and solid engineering do, that's exactly the point, and quite funny to see how tuners post professional pictures of the coolers like art pieces, and people fall for it yet no real life data whatsoever is given and it's all "secret".
If you have found what works for you, that's what matters, I haven't yet unfortunately, but back to the point here, no need for other than stock ICs to deliver sustainable performance at these levels with a good tune.
I certainly know how stock ICs can heat soak on the race track, I struggle with it myself, but it does not mean aftermarket ones are better, at least I have not seen any proof. Doing similar laps with different intercoolers would bring that to closure. I don't believe in dyno sheets to rank ICs, it simply doesn't tell the story.
Stock ICs will do a better job than any other up to 2.6 bar absolute on the track and I would be happy to be wrong frankly. Beyond that you have reached their limit. It is not about cooling or IATs alone but about how fast it can dissipate heat. I have given above a clear example above how stock intercoolers serve the purpose for very high performance on track and high speed, and one should maybe question the tune quality if performance levels below these ones are causing such heat soak, just a thought , I am not saying that definitely is the problem, I don't know anything about GIAC's tunes or Champions other than they are popular.
If you have any back to back runs with both intercoolers on the track that would help bring some light
Looks or size or weight certainly do not make any difference to performance, material used and solid engineering do, that's exactly the point, and quite funny to see how tuners post professional pictures of the coolers like art pieces, and people fall for it yet no real life data whatsoever is given and it's all "secret".
If you have found what works for you, that's what matters, I haven't yet unfortunately, but back to the point here, no need for other than stock ICs to deliver sustainable performance at these levels with a good tune.
https://rennlist.com/forums/991-turb...-1-4-mile.html
07-15-2017, 03:37 AM
#11
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One could always add a spraying system to throw water on the ICs when running the car hard. That could reject a lot more heat than an aftermarket IC with more radiator fin surface area.