991 Turbo s Exhaust Addvice
09-06-2016, 05:36 AM
#16
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by Nanook
Well chico1977 I can offer this from a personal perspective.
We all have the options offered on the web forums of the various vendors flogging the systems they do...they all claim the best sound and some claim performance increases..so where we take it from all the hype and drivel is anyones best guess.. for me it came down to a few basic considerations
1- general consensus of the product and service of the product
2- vendor experience and knowledge
3- money back guarantee of satisfaction
I started with bydesign based on no.1...no.2 was a natural progression and no.3 sealed the deal.
I did a few initial baselines with my stock system using my vbox..then moved to exhaust/headers. The results were not earth shattering but certainly an improvement. After adding a Cobb AP and spending a fair amount of time with Sam I could now see the results improving even more so..not huge gains but it was obvious we were heading in the right direction...this gave me the confidence to go to the next step and add his intercoolers..it was a natural progression as the proof was in the logs..and the performance gains followed accordingly with the additional time spent evaluating and tweaking things with the guidance and tunes again provided from Sam..
As it stands I've gone from an 11.07 second 1/4 to a 10.5...I cannot directly identify the most beneficial contributing factor but will summarize it as all the right pieces in the right places..
This to date is enough to give me the confidence to go to the final push and the new turbo chargers will be installed next week.
OP you asked about the best components to reach a new level of sound and performance. As we are all likely to agree sound is very much in the ear of the beholder and performance of any significance will not likely be attained solely from one or two exhaust revisions..
Call me off but I wanted a quieter car than stock in normal mode with no drone being mandatory..this I got just as I was told and a somewhat nasty raspy snarl when stepped on..this all from the Kline inconel catless exhaust and Kline manifolds
This is simply my take on the matter but if you want to discuss your options, costs and realistic results you must speak with someone who can provide you with this...someone with extensive experience and who backs up the results with a no conditions guarantee.. you must talk to Sam...you will be left with information that will help you make a sound decision.
We all have the options offered on the web forums of the various vendors flogging the systems they do...they all claim the best sound and some claim performance increases..so where we take it from all the hype and drivel is anyones best guess.. for me it came down to a few basic considerations
1- general consensus of the product and service of the product
2- vendor experience and knowledge
3- money back guarantee of satisfaction
I started with bydesign based on no.1...no.2 was a natural progression and no.3 sealed the deal.
I did a few initial baselines with my stock system using my vbox..then moved to exhaust/headers. The results were not earth shattering but certainly an improvement. After adding a Cobb AP and spending a fair amount of time with Sam I could now see the results improving even more so..not huge gains but it was obvious we were heading in the right direction...this gave me the confidence to go to the next step and add his intercoolers..it was a natural progression as the proof was in the logs..and the performance gains followed accordingly with the additional time spent evaluating and tweaking things with the guidance and tunes again provided from Sam..
As it stands I've gone from an 11.07 second 1/4 to a 10.5...I cannot directly identify the most beneficial contributing factor but will summarize it as all the right pieces in the right places..
This to date is enough to give me the confidence to go to the final push and the new turbo chargers will be installed next week.
OP you asked about the best components to reach a new level of sound and performance. As we are all likely to agree sound is very much in the ear of the beholder and performance of any significance will not likely be attained solely from one or two exhaust revisions..
Call me off but I wanted a quieter car than stock in normal mode with no drone being mandatory..this I got just as I was told and a somewhat nasty raspy snarl when stepped on..this all from the Kline inconel catless exhaust and Kline manifolds
This is simply my take on the matter but if you want to discuss your options, costs and realistic results you must speak with someone who can provide you with this...someone with extensive experience and who backs up the results with a no conditions guarantee.. you must talk to Sam...you will be left with information that will help you make a sound decision.
09-06-2016, 10:29 AM
#17
OP if you want a system that fits perfectly, sounds amazing, won't throw CEL's, designed off the OEM (which is better suited for the engine) then it's a no brainer, get the Europipe and start enjoying your car straight away. Akra is also very good too except for having that quirky rear tailpipe set- up which probably isn't everyone's cup of tea but at least it uses the right design for the engine. Tubi also appears to use a similar design.
Frankly I wouldn't use anything else unless these others provide you with some emissions and back-pressure numbers to compare against what you're taking off or you may find what you've put on is not as good. This is where a tune covers up these inadequacies. There's so much BS going on out there it's a minefield. Just look at all the Marketing dribble - pretty gifs (which have an endless number of meanings depending upon what suits on any given day), - promises to "get it right" - pathetic considering the money being paid for some of these systems.
And getting put through the wringer taking systems on and off, trying to "get it right" - so unnecessary! No wonder there is so much sucking up going on there. Ridiculous! No need to play guinea pig - just get yourself a system which is actually designed for the engine and, which actually works properly, or otherwise better to leave it stock.
Edit. Read this. So much for gains lol. https://rennlist.com/forums/991/9462...ll-cats-3.html Little wonder why Porsche won't use that design on their GT3 cup or any of their race cars.
Frankly I wouldn't use anything else unless these others provide you with some emissions and back-pressure numbers to compare against what you're taking off or you may find what you've put on is not as good. This is where a tune covers up these inadequacies. There's so much BS going on out there it's a minefield. Just look at all the Marketing dribble - pretty gifs (which have an endless number of meanings depending upon what suits on any given day), - promises to "get it right" - pathetic considering the money being paid for some of these systems.
And getting put through the wringer taking systems on and off, trying to "get it right" - so unnecessary! No wonder there is so much sucking up going on there. Ridiculous! No need to play guinea pig - just get yourself a system which is actually designed for the engine and, which actually works properly, or otherwise better to leave it stock.
Edit. Read this. So much for gains lol. https://rennlist.com/forums/991/9462...ll-cats-3.html Little wonder why Porsche won't use that design on their GT3 cup or any of their race cars.
Some of us enjoy the method as well as the end result. To me, "guinea pig" was a great exercise as it ended up with exactly what suited me. In the development of any system for any car there is experimentation and cars needed. This disdain you have for Kline is off the charts and seems to rear it's ugly head over and over again. You and Sam really should go on a picnic and talk it out over grapes and sunshine. Tubi, Europipe, etc. are no better suited for this car than any other. In reference to your own words...don't buy the "hype". The OP asked for comparisons for the purpose of choosing what "sounds" the best. And let's face it...gains really aren't that great from any exhaust so unless it's a detriment, WHO CARES? So, hopefully the OP gets a chance to hear the comparisons and simply choose whatever suits the OPs auditory senses.
Back pressure is a farce in discussions about these cars. It is not needed and the only effect you get from reducing it with a free flowing exhaust is P-O-W-E-R.
And in that respect, these are PORSCHE'S. They are bad** cars but in the end they aren't supercars. They aren't race cars. They are very fun DDs. Do what YOU want to YOUR car and enjoy it. I don't have any fantasies about amping it up and outrunning 488s and 675LTs...not gonna happen. I would venture to say that MOST of the guys and girls on here have them for regular old road driving...save a few.
I don't know...I guess I believe in being "FOR" things instead of "AGAINST."
09-06-2016, 11:28 AM
#18
Rennlist Member
I've never expected power from anything except deleting or changing cats. That with a tune can add power. The tune adds power by dialing up the boost (more heat) and extra fuel (less heat), and timing changes help if your fuel is good enough for it. A muffler will just change sound, and headers to a lesser degree. It sounds like larger intercoolers need to be next after a cat plus tune. I wouldn't be surprised if that combination (hfc/ic/tune) gives almost the same power increase as any more complete system of bolt on parts.
After changing the turbos I could see increasing the diameter of everything might matter. That could significantly change the airflow through the complete system.
After changing the turbos I could see increasing the diameter of everything might matter. That could significantly change the airflow through the complete system.
09-06-2016, 06:24 PM
#21
I have the 100 cell cats on my inconel Kline with zero issues. My installation was done by the shop Forman of my porsche dealer. Hooked the car up to their computer to check for any issues/faults---none.
Took my car back today to re-check everything. No issues at all.
Took my car back today to re-check everything. No issues at all.
09-06-2016, 06:47 PM
#22
Intermediate
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09-06-2016, 07:40 PM
#23
09-06-2016, 09:17 PM
#24
In the development of any system for any car there is experimentation and cars needed.
This disdain you have for Kline is off the charts and seems to rear it's ugly head over and over again.
You and Sam really should go on a picnic and talk it out over grapes and sunshine.
Tubi, Europipe, etc. are no better suited for this car than any other.
In reference to your own words...don't buy the "hype".
The OP asked for comparisons for the purpose of choosing what "sounds" the best.
My interpretation of what OP was asking for appeared to have a broader aspect to it. Maybe I'm wrong and "sound" was it - and at any cost and/or compromise?
And let's face it...gains really aren't that great from any exhaust so unless it's a detriment, WHO CARES?
Put me in the category that care a lot. In so far as gains, gains are there to be had and can increase even more with the right product. Performance is also gauged in a range of ways too. You have reliability, longevity, efficiency also in that equation...
So, hopefully the OP gets a chance to hear the comparisons and simply choose whatever suits the OPs auditory senses.
Back pressure is a farce in discussions about these cars. It is not needed and the only effect you get from reducing it with a free flowing exhaust is P-O-W-E-R.
And in that respect, these are PORSCHE'S. They are bad** cars but in the end they aren't supercars. They aren't race cars. They are very fun DDs.
Do what YOU want to YOUR car and enjoy it.
I don't have any fantasies about amping it up and outrunning 488s and 675LTs...not gonna happen.
I would venture to say that MOST of the guys and girls on here have them for regular old road driving...save a few.
I don't know...I guess I believe in being "FOR" things instead of "AGAINST."
09-06-2016, 11:44 PM
#25
All I can say is wow. Crazy stuff here.
Let me say this, if Sam or Felix were to knock on my door I wouldn't know who the heck they are. What I do know is through my personal experience in dealing with them through the purchase and installation process of my Kline exhaust.
During this process I NEVER experienced any pressure or attempts to up-sell anything. There was also no bad mouthing of any other brand/competitor. I just got the facts and all my many questions were answered in a very timely and professional manner. I was told exactly how the system would work and what I could expect no BS!
All the information I was given PROVED to be 100% accurate! The system has transformed my car and took this car to a higher level if that was possible.
Porsche technicians with 30 years on the job were totally impressed with this system, both the quality and the performance of it. That speaks volumes to me.
Even RUF is now having Kline build these systems for their cars and they have done several already. TUV approved too. That also says a lot to me.
My overall experience with both Sam and Felix has been nothing short of exceptional and I would highly recommend them!
I'm not the type of person to give such high praise if I wasn't 100% satisfied and being very OCD this doesn't happen every day for me.
Hopefully the OP has a similar experience with what ever decision he makes.
Peace!
Let me say this, if Sam or Felix were to knock on my door I wouldn't know who the heck they are. What I do know is through my personal experience in dealing with them through the purchase and installation process of my Kline exhaust.
During this process I NEVER experienced any pressure or attempts to up-sell anything. There was also no bad mouthing of any other brand/competitor. I just got the facts and all my many questions were answered in a very timely and professional manner. I was told exactly how the system would work and what I could expect no BS!
All the information I was given PROVED to be 100% accurate! The system has transformed my car and took this car to a higher level if that was possible.
Porsche technicians with 30 years on the job were totally impressed with this system, both the quality and the performance of it. That speaks volumes to me.
Even RUF is now having Kline build these systems for their cars and they have done several already. TUV approved too. That also says a lot to me.
My overall experience with both Sam and Felix has been nothing short of exceptional and I would highly recommend them!
I'm not the type of person to give such high praise if I wasn't 100% satisfied and being very OCD this doesn't happen every day for me.
Hopefully the OP has a similar experience with what ever decision he makes.
Peace!
09-07-2016, 12:08 AM
#26
With a tune you can cancel out the cats from registering CEL's, which is essentially masking the fact the values aren't within the ecu's accepted parameters.
With aftermarket cats you can have a few things which can cause a CEL but the most common is design and/or manufacture related where they are unable to clean the exhaust properly. In that sense my argument has always been why bother have cats on the system if they aren't capable of doing the job they are there to do in the first place. Anyone can put a high flow cat on to gain hp but are they able to match the OEM values. An emissions test will show that. These new ECU's will also register in the history values which don't match the OEM cats. You can't hide that unfortunately.
09-07-2016, 12:21 AM
#27
Not sure what you mean? No one is fighting or being aggressive - just passing comments/opinions and experiences in a peaceful manner...
We all don't have to agree with one another, or do we? There is really no need for anyone to overly justify or reinforce purchasing decisions where I am concerned as I'm pretty easy with whatever anyone wants to put on their cars. We all have our own standards and expectations and they clearly vary - again fine by me, but I don't have to agree they are choices I would personally make from what is available. Or do I?
We all don't have to agree with one another, or do we? There is really no need for anyone to overly justify or reinforce purchasing decisions where I am concerned as I'm pretty easy with whatever anyone wants to put on their cars. We all have our own standards and expectations and they clearly vary - again fine by me, but I don't have to agree they are choices I would personally make from what is available. Or do I?
09-07-2016, 12:25 AM
#28
Burning Brakes
In terms of high flow catted aftermarket exhaust systems the thing that really sell Europipe is not marketing because they don't do any. It is the quality of the build.
If you could see a europipe coming out of the box, see the quality of the materials of the welding and the workmanship you would understand why the system sells so well with basically no marketing or hype.
If you could see a europipe coming out of the box, see the quality of the materials of the welding and the workmanship you would understand why the system sells so well with basically no marketing or hype.
09-07-2016, 12:35 AM
#29
Not sure what you mean? No one is fighting or being aggressive - just passing comments/opinions and experiences in a peaceful manner...
We all don't have to agree with one another, or do we? There is really no need for anyone to overly justify or reinforce purchasing decisions where I am concerned as I'm pretty easy with whatever anyone wants to put on their cars. We all have our own standards and expectations and they clearly vary - again fine by me, but I don't have to agree they are good choices. Or do I?
We all don't have to agree with one another, or do we? There is really no need for anyone to overly justify or reinforce purchasing decisions where I am concerned as I'm pretty easy with whatever anyone wants to put on their cars. We all have our own standards and expectations and they clearly vary - again fine by me, but I don't have to agree they are good choices. Or do I?
As far as overly justify or reinforce, I hope you don't think I was doing that. I was just stating the facts nothing more nothing less. I'm very difficult to please, so when I've had a great experience I'll pass it on.
If I've had a very bad experience I'll also pass that on no matter how invested I am or how foolish of a decision I've made. We've all done that right. Knowledge is power and just giving the OP my own experience.
