speed21

[QUOTE]Fair call, I'm listening.

Possibly. But. There is no question in my mind the bite and pedal pressure gives a level of reassurance one looks for when approaching a hairpin at full noise that steels don't even come close to doing. And that there right there is worth every penny. Then there is the larger dia rotors which must do something surely?

Ha! Good that you are getting to know me.

Well it's not much good there worf!

We all like to rationalize and convince ourselves the spend is not that necessary, and that the goods aren't (can't be) THAT much better. I'm as guilty as anyone there. I admit it. I will say I have held back on a lot of things previously but mainly due to finances and not really knowing the full story (as an owner will get to experience).

The tech is definitely legit (it works), and they do look good though and, the zero brake dust never ceases to amaze me. Plus they definitely feel to me like they stop significantly better, my imagination or not. But I feel so much better punting it hard into tricky situations more than I ever have with steels. So in essence if the science shows all I am paying for is psychological reassurance then the extra spend has paid off.

Thanks for the comparative info there.

Mainly due to operating costs though. That would be THE only logical reason to do that.

Agree. But that is the cost of using Porsche's best performing technology. If ONLY a lot of things were cheaper! PCCB is one of those things where once you use them day to day and in all kinds of driving situations it doesn't take long to get a handle on what all the fuss is about.

Oooh yes you can! Don't kid yourself there. The difference can be felt. Maybe not so obvious in mundane city driving but in sporty driving it becomes clear. Push harder, you WILL feel it. I know TT owners don't like to hear it but I'm not gonna lie. It is what pushed me over the line to the TTS tbph. That, the handling and that bite! Hard to deny the difference. S is a very smooth package esp for sporty driving. Not discounting TT one little bit but S is convincingly better as an overall package...no question.

It's not really a don't mind thing worf. They just really are that good and once you own them and use them day in day out you will get a better understanding there. I'm 100% sure of that. Then those tests won't seem relevant anymore....i.e delete off hard drive.

I'd go along with that. TT seems to be always down spec'd on at least one of the key items (usuallyPDCC) in favor of other aesthetic choices, generally made to bolster the package appearance wise so it feels more the money alongside the S...which obviously gets them out the door easier.

Don't worry I was exactly like you with the PCCB. Used it on odd test drives, thought yep they look and feel nice but just couldn't bring myself to part with the hard earned, always taking a few other cheaper splashings in place thereof thinking I've done the right thing for myself (and my wallet). Now, since the S, I'm totally screwed as I feel I can't accept less. The benefits of PCCB and PDCC are just too compelling. So there is an ongoing future spend there for me...damm!. But the real truth is if it wasn't for the feeling of that extra torque and hearing that engine rev itself manically to the 7200 red and ...then the way those brakes bit and ripped off serious speed at the last second before the turn in maybe I could have stepped away from the S and continued missing experiencing the benefits of the S package and bought the TT. Damn that sales-guy!

Gt3Fan

It's easy, I did it dozens of times on my GT3, I did buy an extra guide so as not to chip the ceramic rotors when taking off the wheels. But overall, damn easy, I still have the precision torque wrench and breaker bar for my next GT3.

Visceral

My taste-test wasn't blind, but I did have a strong expectation that they would be the same. I drove them back-to-back on a track.

I was really surprised at the difference in throttle and brake. The rest seemed the same, but there is a VERY obvious difference between the perceived acceleration and braking capabilities.

I didn't expect it, but it was very surprising. Would it show up on measurement equipment? I would expect it would due to the magnitude, but I daily drive the car... I care far more about how it feels than the actual measured results.

Gt3Fan

Great feedback, I'll now be tossing my POS non S turbo

But in all seriousness, that's some solid real world feedback, maybe I should have test drove a S before I went non S. I just didn't want those damn carbon breaks for the track, which was the only reason I didn't go S.

speed21

It could be a case where the difference isn't physically seen so much in an off the line test...who knows? They are both very quick. The difference I found was more felt during on off throttle application and I found squeezing the throttle progressively to the floor in a measured type manner, in accordance with the acceleration you wanted between gears/corners, showed up more torque and urgency to the red. And the higher red of the S was nicer in the way the engine got that extra howl up. They were sweet differences. Again, not discounting the TT's engine as not being sweet with its slightly different character. Both very fast and powerful!

Hothonda

Again for me...back to back TT/TTS typical test drives, acceleration was fantastic & I could discern -0-
difference in the two. Handling was the same too....Brakes on the TTS were not progressive - they grabbed hard about 1/2 way down on the pedal. Easy learning curve though.

Slim Jim/ Billy Bob's roadside tire service doesn't like center locks on dark, rainy nights on I-5 & neither do I.

Came out of a 2013 C2S PDK w/SPASM (owned from new for 2yrs & 18K miles) and my TT was a big step up in every way. $172 MSRP. The TTS was $199 MSRP.

Would make the same decision again today.

I DD a 2015 200 Land Cruiser (Costco, Home Depot & dogs)

speed21

Must be something going wrong there with that car or the environment didn't allow enough WOT and extended speed bursts. Maybe also it has seen a very hard time on the brakes or they need bleeding or something? The PCCB brakes definitely have more initial bite, more urgency in the actual stopping but still VERY progressive and predictable in terms of the likely outcome applying varying degrees of baking pressure.

Hothonda

Nothing wrong with the car(s). Have owned my share & don't make my decisions *****-nilly. We all have our own criteria.

Mind reading 101 is not one of your strong suits.

speed21

Apology if I've come across as trying to mind read you Honda - not saying your's or any other tt owners decision was made ***** nilly either. Sorry you feel that way. Fwiw I wasn't the only one on the day to walk away with the impressions given. There were at least half a dozen potential buyers also who made the exact same assessment on the day. I understand some still later went with TT purchases also, but mainly due to cost (from what I was told). If there were other reasons they were not elaborated. As I also mentioned mine was a stretch I hadn't anticipated tbh but like yourself I have no regrets. That's the best outcome I find. My intentions were never to make a sore point about anything that others may not have in their cars but more so obliging the OP.

Hothonda

Peace

speed21

I'm totally with you brother. We are so lucky to own these cars..in no matter what form.

DoninDen

Do either of the options come in manual?

Gt3Fan

Lol!

MJM911

"Do either of the options come in manual?"


7-speed Porsche Doppelkupplung (PDK) only! Manual Transmission deemed to slow for this Porsche.

worf928

Fascinating Mr Spock(s). And intriguing. Are you both reasonably sure that your TTs were Sport-Chrono equipped and in sport mode? While SC is standard on the TTS it doesn't seem to be optioned on TTs too often. The different is, of course, overboost. The difference between the normal-mode TT and the TTS in over-boost is 66 lb-ft or 13.5% more torque in the TTS (in a slightly narrow band) than in the TT. This would be noticeable on track by most folks with the fortitude to explore the performance on a track.

But, with SC on the TT, the difference is 5.5% which - in my opinion - is right at the threshold of most butt-o-meters. I know that my butt-o-meter is easily triggered by the extra 7.6% of torque in the TT in overboost. More-so that it should be. I attribute this to different e-throttle mapping and perhaps some fuel and/or timing games. (I played extensively this type of stuff when I developed the management for my super-charged 928 GT. You can really change the transient characteristics in meaningful ways without changing what a dyno might measure.)

In hindsight, I should have suspected that Porsche would bring some more perception-warping features to the table.

It would be very interesting to get some back-to-back lap-times with the same driver in both cars and see how much is fact and how much is perception.

We all know that the 0-60 time difference is .1 seconds (3%) and the 1/4 mile time is 0.2 seconds (1.8%) with both of those figures outside the range of butt-o-meters.

One would think. A while I ago I did some cursory googling of materials properties for steel brakes versus carbon-ceramics. The two materials are very dissimilar in this regard. My, now dimly-recalled, take away was that the ceramics needed to have more surface area to absorb, in the same time period, the same amount of heat as steel. But, that the heat capacity of the ceramics was significantly in excess of steel. So, they can't absorb as fast but they can absorb more. Thus they need to be a bit bigger but can sink more heat.

This seems consistent with observation and test results.

However, that is dimly-recalled and I would gladly defer to someone versed in the material sciences for a deeper explanation.

I am totally ok with the justification of "'cause I like it." I use it myself often.