Porsche hamstrung the 991 TTS!!! Hail the 918...
11-24-2013, 06:32 AM
#1
Drifting
Thread Starter
Porsche hamstrung the 991 TTS!!! Hail the 918...
In an effort to secure unquestionable flagship status for the 918, Porsche intentionally hamstrung the new TTS. I don't blame them and given their track record, I'm not surprised.
I look forward to seeing what the tuners can accomplish with the 991 TTS.
I look forward to seeing what the tuners can accomplish with the 991 TTS.
Last edited by DreamCarrera; 11-24-2013 at 06:47 AM.
11-25-2013, 01:09 AM
#2
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Porsche screwed themselves with the long lag time in releasing the 918 and, as a result, it's status as primo release is being undercut by Ferrari and Lambo. IMHO, it's still a stunning car and most important, mid engine. I can understand why they might keep a leash on the 991TTS for this reason, just as Porsche won't allow the Cayman, again mid-engine, to have more power because it will likely surpass it's cherished 911 money maker on the track.
Like you say, tuners will likely extract considerably more power from the 991TTS. But frankly, I don't find that very interesting just as I don't want to mod my 997TTS up to 650HP. The reason is simply that the 911 rear engine platform (997, 991 etc) is a 50 year old concept kept alive by techno wizardry. My 997TTS is savagely fast as is and, at the limit on the track, it becomes considerably more unstable and scary than my Ferrari 458 for example. Yes, the 991 TTS has more gadgetry, but injecting another 100 HP into a rear ender takes it into 'widow-maker' GT2 territory IMHO.
Frankly, I don't find the 991TTS or even the 991GT3 that exciting or compelling a purchase prospect. In contrast, I find the mid-engine Cayman to have really interesting potential -- and its even beginning to look good. I understand a Cayman 'club sport' is on the horizon with close to 400HP; that will be the car to get in my view -- not the wobbly, overpowered TTSs.
Like you say, tuners will likely extract considerably more power from the 991TTS. But frankly, I don't find that very interesting just as I don't want to mod my 997TTS up to 650HP. The reason is simply that the 911 rear engine platform (997, 991 etc) is a 50 year old concept kept alive by techno wizardry. My 997TTS is savagely fast as is and, at the limit on the track, it becomes considerably more unstable and scary than my Ferrari 458 for example. Yes, the 991 TTS has more gadgetry, but injecting another 100 HP into a rear ender takes it into 'widow-maker' GT2 territory IMHO.
Frankly, I don't find the 991TTS or even the 991GT3 that exciting or compelling a purchase prospect. In contrast, I find the mid-engine Cayman to have really interesting potential -- and its even beginning to look good. I understand a Cayman 'club sport' is on the horizon with close to 400HP; that will be the car to get in my view -- not the wobbly, overpowered TTSs.
11-25-2013, 08:37 PM
#3
Rennlist Member
Porsche screwed themselves with the long lag time in releasing the 918 and, as a result, it's status as primo release is being undercut by Ferrari and Lambo. IMHO, it's still a stunning car and most important, mid engine. I can understand why they might keep a leash on the 991TTS for this reason, just as Porsche won't allow the Cayman, again mid-engine, to have more power because it will likely surpass it's cherished 911 money maker on the track.
Like you say, tuners will likely extract considerably more power from the 991TTS. But frankly, I don't find that very interesting just as I don't want to mod my 997TTS up to 650HP. The reason is simply that the 911 rear engine platform (997, 991 etc) is a 50 year old concept kept alive by techno wizardry. My 997TTS is savagely fast as is and, at the limit on the track, it becomes considerably more unstable and scary than my Ferrari 458 for example. Yes, the 991 TTS has more gadgetry, but injecting another 100 HP into a rear ender takes it into 'widow-maker' GT2 territory IMHO.
Frankly, I don't find the 991TTS or even the 991GT3 that exciting or compelling a purchase prospect. In contrast, I find the mid-engine Cayman to have really interesting potential -- and its even beginning to look good. I understand a Cayman 'club sport' is on the horizon with close to 400HP; that will be the car to get in my view -- not the wobbly, overpowered TTSs.
Like you say, tuners will likely extract considerably more power from the 991TTS. But frankly, I don't find that very interesting just as I don't want to mod my 997TTS up to 650HP. The reason is simply that the 911 rear engine platform (997, 991 etc) is a 50 year old concept kept alive by techno wizardry. My 997TTS is savagely fast as is and, at the limit on the track, it becomes considerably more unstable and scary than my Ferrari 458 for example. Yes, the 991 TTS has more gadgetry, but injecting another 100 HP into a rear ender takes it into 'widow-maker' GT2 territory IMHO.
Frankly, I don't find the 991TTS or even the 991GT3 that exciting or compelling a purchase prospect. In contrast, I find the mid-engine Cayman to have really interesting potential -- and its even beginning to look good. I understand a Cayman 'club sport' is on the horizon with close to 400HP; that will be the car to get in my view -- not the wobbly, overpowered TTSs.
I'm very close to having a shop in florida put a 400hp 911S engine into a cayman, finally making the cayman, the car Porsche should make.
12-06-2013, 11:37 AM
#4
However, Porsche left a performance "gap" for the GT2 RS, the 991 Turbo S facelift and the possible "960" model.
I don't like it either but this is how it is. The 918 has nothing to do with it.
Also, it is related to cost. The 991 Turbo S would have needed a completely new engine generation to be able to offer 600 hp and more (for the facelift). The current engine is new but still based on the "old" 997 Turbo DI engine. Due to increased cost for AWS, new PTM/AWD and wider rear (due to AWS and the turbo charged engine), there was no money left for a completely new engine generation. Also there is a rumor that the next engine generation will be some sort of engine kit which allows to build all kind of powerful and less powerful engines for all 911 and other(?) models.
12-06-2013, 11:42 AM
#5
Agree with most of the above. Was close to buying a turbo for years, but eventually decided against it. I'm fascinated by the prospect of a 400hp cayman, but it will never be made by Porsche until the base 911 is over 400hp. There is a Cayman GTS coming in one year, but it only increased HP to 340, with no torque increase.
I'm very close to having a shop in florida put a 400hp 911S engine into a cayman, finally making the cayman, the car Porsche should make.
I'm very close to having a shop in florida put a 400hp 911S engine into a cayman, finally making the cayman, the car Porsche should make.
Get a 991 GT3 if you are unhappy with other 911 models but the Cayman really isn't a solution. Unless you are a masochist.
12-06-2013, 07:41 PM
#6
The 991TTS could easily handle another 100hp. I never drove one, but my 996tt with about 520hp and 550lb.ft could easily handle a lot more power. The car isn't even trying at these levels.
With its AWD, stability systems, AWS, better aero and bigger tires, I'm sure the new TTS could handle north of 650hp without breaking a sweat.
Just my ,02can$
With its AWD, stability systems, AWS, better aero and bigger tires, I'm sure the new TTS could handle north of 650hp without breaking a sweat.
Just my ,02can$
12-06-2013, 07:52 PM
#7
In my opinion, it is the GT3 that is holding the Turbo back, not the 918. The Turbo can't be too much better than GT3. It doesn't make any sense that the Turbo doesn't even make 100hp more than the NA GT3. Porsche is definitely holding the power on the TT/TTS.
Imagine a 650hp turbo with better tires and more downforce. It would murder the GT3 into oblivion. Not gonna happen.
The aftermarket with reflash and exhaust will possibly bring the TTS to 650hp. We will probably read a lot of "this is how the car should have come from the factory" threads when it happens.
Imagine a 650hp turbo with better tires and more downforce. It would murder the GT3 into oblivion. Not gonna happen.
The aftermarket with reflash and exhaust will possibly bring the TTS to 650hp. We will probably read a lot of "this is how the car should have come from the factory" threads when it happens.
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12-07-2013, 07:23 PM
#8
Drifting
Thread Starter
You are wrong, this is not true.
However, Porsche left a performance "gap" for the GT2 RS, the 991 Turbo S facelift and the possible "960" model.
I don't like it either but this is how it is. The 918 has nothing to do with it.
Also, it is related to cost. The 991 Turbo S would have needed a completely new engine generation to be able to offer 600 hp and more (for the facelift). The current engine is new but still based on the "old" 997 Turbo DI engine. Due to increased cost for AWS, new PTM/AWD and wider rear (due to AWS and the turbo charged engine), there was no money left for a completely new engine generation. Also there is a rumor that the next engine generation will be some sort of engine kit which allows to build all kind of powerful and less powerful engines for all 911 and other(?) models.
However, Porsche left a performance "gap" for the GT2 RS, the 991 Turbo S facelift and the possible "960" model.
I don't like it either but this is how it is. The 918 has nothing to do with it.
Also, it is related to cost. The 991 Turbo S would have needed a completely new engine generation to be able to offer 600 hp and more (for the facelift). The current engine is new but still based on the "old" 997 Turbo DI engine. Due to increased cost for AWS, new PTM/AWD and wider rear (due to AWS and the turbo charged engine), there was no money left for a completely new engine generation. Also there is a rumor that the next engine generation will be some sort of engine kit which allows to build all kind of powerful and less powerful engines for all 911 and other(?) models.
What Porsche does care about is their new $900,000 flagship hypercar, and they were damn sure not to allow their "benchmark"(997 TTS) car step on its toes...they clearly could have made the 991 TTS faster(IOW, clearly faster than the 997 TTS) but they chose not to because of the 918.
12-12-2013, 06:04 AM
#9
OK, I try to explain it again (this time making short and easy understandable points):
1. For substantially more power (incl. facelift), the 991 Turbo S would have needed a new engine generation. The current engine is good for aprox. 600 hp and thats it. The problem seems to be fuel distribution and limited fuel injector size.
2. Due to the new AWD/PTM, AWS and wider body, there was no money left for a new engine development. Look at the price increase.
3. The 991 Turbo S outruns the previous 997 Turbo S. Best value for the 0-100 kph acceleration so far has been 2.8 seconds for the 991 Turbo S. Best value for the 997 Turbo S has been 3.0 seconds. Best value from 0-200 kph has been 9.6 seconds for the new Turbo S. Best value for the 997 Turbo S has been 10.1 seconds. From 0-300 kph, the difference is even bigger. Best value for the new Turbo S is 29.7 seconds, best value for the previous model is 34.7 seconds as far as I remember.
4. The AWD/chassis of the 991 Turbo S is so much better than on the 997 Turbo S, there is such a HUGE difference. Whoever claims the difference is little, either doesn't have a clue about cars or just didn't drive them back to back.
5. Porsche needed to leave a performance "gap" for the 991 Turbo S facelift, the GT2 RS (maybe even GT2...there are new rumors) and the "960". It has A LOT to do with these cars because the 991 Turbo S cannot be faster than them. Look at the outrage of 991 GT3 customers because the 991 Turbo S is faster than the GT3 on the track with the same tire choice.
Most 991 Turbo S owners seem to love their car choice (unless a headlight pops out
) and in Germany, the Turbo S sells much better than the GT3 for example.
The 997 Turbo S values you mention are "old" values and not done back to back with the new 991 Turbo S.
1. For substantially more power (incl. facelift), the 991 Turbo S would have needed a new engine generation. The current engine is good for aprox. 600 hp and thats it. The problem seems to be fuel distribution and limited fuel injector size.
2. Due to the new AWD/PTM, AWS and wider body, there was no money left for a new engine development. Look at the price increase.
3. The 991 Turbo S outruns the previous 997 Turbo S. Best value for the 0-100 kph acceleration so far has been 2.8 seconds for the 991 Turbo S. Best value for the 997 Turbo S has been 3.0 seconds. Best value from 0-200 kph has been 9.6 seconds for the new Turbo S. Best value for the 997 Turbo S has been 10.1 seconds. From 0-300 kph, the difference is even bigger. Best value for the new Turbo S is 29.7 seconds, best value for the previous model is 34.7 seconds as far as I remember.
4. The AWD/chassis of the 991 Turbo S is so much better than on the 997 Turbo S, there is such a HUGE difference. Whoever claims the difference is little, either doesn't have a clue about cars or just didn't drive them back to back.
5. Porsche needed to leave a performance "gap" for the 991 Turbo S facelift, the GT2 RS (maybe even GT2...there are new rumors) and the "960". It has A LOT to do with these cars because the 991 Turbo S cannot be faster than them. Look at the outrage of 991 GT3 customers because the 991 Turbo S is faster than the GT3 on the track with the same tire choice.
Most 991 Turbo S owners seem to love their car choice (unless a headlight pops out
) and in Germany, the Turbo S sells much better than the GT3 for example.The 997 Turbo S values you mention are "old" values and not done back to back with the new 991 Turbo S.
12-12-2013, 06:07 AM
#10
The 991TTS could easily handle another 100hp. I never drove one, but my 996tt with about 520hp and 550lb.ft could easily handle a lot more power. The car isn't even trying at these levels.
With its AWD, stability systems, AWS, better aero and bigger tires, I'm sure the new TTS could handle north of 650hp without breaking a sweat.
Just my ,02can$
With its AWD, stability systems, AWS, better aero and bigger tires, I'm sure the new TTS could handle north of 650hp without breaking a sweat.
Just my ,02can$
12-12-2013, 06:10 AM
#11
In my opinion, it is the GT3 that is holding the Turbo back, not the 918. The Turbo can't be too much better than GT3. It doesn't make any sense that the Turbo doesn't even make 100hp more than the NA GT3. Porsche is definitely holding the power on the TT/TTS.
Imagine a 650hp turbo with better tires and more downforce. It would murder the GT3 into oblivion. Not gonna happen.
The aftermarket with reflash and exhaust will possibly bring the TTS to 650hp. We will probably read a lot of "this is how the car should have come from the factory" threads when it happens.
Imagine a 650hp turbo with better tires and more downforce. It would murder the GT3 into oblivion. Not gonna happen.
The aftermarket with reflash and exhaust will possibly bring the TTS to 650hp. We will probably read a lot of "this is how the car should have come from the factory" threads when it happens.
Also, the same (skill) driver will always be faster in a Turbo S on the track than in the GT3, so I really really have a hard time getting your point.
12-12-2013, 03:56 PM
#12
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
The Cayman sucks (no offense meant but it is how it is). Even if you put a 500 hp engine into it, it has never been developed for this kind of power, so it will suck.
Get a 991 GT3 if you are unhappy with other 911 models but the Cayman really isn't a solution. Unless you are a masochist.
Get a 991 GT3 if you are unhappy with other 911 models but the Cayman really isn't a solution. Unless you are a masochist.
12-12-2013, 04:34 PM
#13
Drifting
Thread Starter
The two statements of yours that I highlighted above(not to mention the fact that most of your points made in this thread are simply wrong) only serve to show how little credibility you have. You can argue with yourself from here on out...
12-12-2013, 05:23 PM
#15
Agree. Even if those statements were true...which they are not... not a nice thing to say. Actually quite insulting. I don't have a GT3 or TurboS but I think they are both awesome, just a different bias. I'm sure the cayman is nice as well. Just because the turboS is fastest in a straight line doesn't mean the other Porsche models are crap. Sheesh.
