Price negotiations buying a CPO 991.2 Turbo S from a dealer
 

Does anyone have any recent experience buying a used (CPO preferentially) 991.2 Turbo or Turbo S from a dealer? I'm looking at one out of state for me and the price **seems** pretty good but then again, I've never owned a Porsche before so I don't have experience with the brand and this level of car and the ins and outs of buying one. I'm just wondering if it would be foolish to not try to negotiate the price down and what sort of percentages of asking price are reasonable. This particular one is a highly optioned, high mileage 2017. Thanks for any advice.

It's a sellers market right now, so they own most of the court in this ball game. Going to be hard to negotiate right now, but anything is possible.

-Payam

This ^^

point out any imperfections whether its in the ad or the car itself and use it as leverage...

You should still negotiate as you would normally. Just understand that it is a seller's market right now, and so if the dealer tells you "there's a lot of interest in this car and it could be sold soon", this will be one of the rare times when he's not lying.

Care to share what "high mileage" is on this car and what they're asking for it?

I have a 2017 TTS myself and just wondering what they think the market is on what you're describing.

Sure. 52k miles, $150k.

Pretty strong money for 52k...Of course you are paying for the CPO and it'll be nice to have that security. I just had a $5K plus bill for my front spoiler failure replacement and my Fidelity Platinum warranty covered it, with me only paying $293 deductible. It's good to have on these cars.

I was certainly make them an offer and see what they say. Don't just take their price as is... Bird in the hand as they say... They may take it, or at least counter at something less than asking to close the deal.

Nice
 

I assume this is it: https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/invent...ting=307438177

That is a nice spec ($215K MSRP), one owner vehicle in sapphire blue - highly desirable color. The issue is the miles and the dealer knows it which is why they had a $7500 price drop 12 days ago. Enthusiasts know that car is bulletproof, but to the rest of the Porsche buying world it has way too many miles to be seriously considered … that’s why it hasn’t sold in 48 days. Condition looks very good, clean CarFax and probably has service history, plus you have the CPO for piece of mind. The high miles are the reason you might be able to steal it…. I would tell them the miles are a concern and then offer $135K.

Looked up Manehim and it says the average price is 153k for a 2017 TTS Coupe. With 52k miles on the clock, deduct about 20k from that, according to manheim. Assuming its the car in the link above the adjusted MMR is 132k.
Important note: the closest comp with ~58k miles crossed the auction block at 110k on 8/19/2021! Of course we do not know the cars carfax history, which may warrant the 110k. It also had a condition rating of 3.2 which is very low for a 2017 TTS normally they are in the mid to upper 4's on a scale of 1-5. (5 being perfect) That car had an adjusted MMR of 122k and it landed 12k south of the MMR estimate.

Not sure what they picked the car you're looking at up for (assuming it was traded in) but that last price point would make me nervous as the dealership owner that they could end up getting 120-130ish at best at auction if it gets to that. Some dealers will auction used cars automatically after 60-90 days. CPO costs are a few grand. I wouldn't really go much above 135, maybe 140 max. I know with the C4S there is a major service at 60k miles, Maybe call another Porsche dealer and find out what the 60k TTS service looks like from an item and cost perspective. AWD controller oil and belt service and pdcc tank replacement seem to stick out to me. Not 100% sure on the TTS versus the C4S. Maybe use that as a negotiation tactic, that when the 60k service comes up you have a set lower price in writing if you agree to go higher on the purchase price. (not sure how far this dealer is from your home location, so this idea might not be worth exploring)

Good luck!

if its that one its actually located at the dealer I use. i was just there last week getting new tires. I didn't see this car, it may have been on the show room floor. they had a few .1 and .2's

Yes, this is the Turbo S I was looking at. I appreciate all the information and price guidance from everyone. They sent me the service records as it was originally sold from them and they have done all service on it since it was new. The service guy said there is nothing due except an oil change in 10,000 miles/1 year. He said all major service was just done. The records show v-belt, spark plugs, air filter, oil change/filter, brake fluid, cabin air filters, wipers, new tires, 4 wheel alignment all on 7/10/21. He said the windshield could stand to be replaced (no chips, but road rash he said which would bother him). I'm not familiar with this and don't guess I've ever had a vehicle windshield get this.

Unless I'm missing something I don't see that they replaced the PDCC reservoir or changed all wheel drive controller oil which both look like they are needed at 60k miles based on the checklist I found for 991. I guess it's not technically time but pretty close. Anyone know what those cost?

It's funny, on Cargurus it says their price is a few thousand over market and on Cars.com it says it is a few thousand less than market.

There are a few things I don't like about the car--the silver window trim and the black Aerokit (I would prefer body colored). Otherwise, it has everything I would want. I like the blue okay but it's not my first pick. I'm hesitant to proceed because I feel like the pricing is about to come down on these used Turbo / Turbo S in the near future and I don't want to over pay. Maybe $15k less would be about right factoring in the mileage and all.

I won't put more than 3k miles on it a year based on my current car usage so over time I guess the 'high' mileage might get normalized during my ownership.

$ 135 with those miles - focus on negotiating with that and also that highly optioned car has more things at that mileage that can break regardless of CPO comeback.......inconvenience aspect....

Just for a reference point, I purchased my 2015 .1 TTS CPO with 52k miles back in April for $115k. $194k MSRP.

Are you going to flip the car in a few years or keep it long term. In a few years this is still a high mileage car. You could buy one with less miles and since you do less than 3k miles per year it will remain low mileage and be easier to sell.

I went the other route. In 2019 I bought a 2009 997 turbo with 33k miles on it and bought a Fidelity 6yr/72kmile warranty. It now has 61k miles and I love to drive it as much as possible.

I had to go back to dealer today since tech forgot my valve stem caps when I had tires replace. I saw the car outside so just did a quick look while here. Car could use a good cleaning as the road in front of dealer is being replaced so it’s pretty dusty, it also has some polishing compound that needs to be cleaned up. Also had a little damage to rear bumper, the rest of car doesn’t look bad, it does have clear bra on the front.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...39ea19af8.jpeg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...652037a0d.jpeg

Wow, thanks! You're the man! When the service guy did the walk around facetiming me he missed that!!!!

Wow- that rear bumper looks terrible to me. I couldn't live with that- it looks like there is a sizable area of paint missing below the license plate area and more defects up higher. The bumper will need to be re-sprayed. How could they not point that out? I get a few small rock chips here and there, but not this.

no problem bud. If you want full rez picture let me know. The site is killing the quality


there are 3 marks, one on top, one to the left and one to the bottom. The bottom is actually a small hole.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...b017e44815.png

The price just went down to $125K.

I passed along the 'findings' to the salesman. They apparently weren't aware and it is going to the body shop for this 'minor' work. Missing something like this makes me wonder if the overall condition is as pristine as I was told.

Wow….
 

They weren’t aware…. of holes ….in the bumper…. where the license plate that says CPO was mounted by someone from the dealer. I wonder how that car passed the CPO inspection? Did salesman send you the report?

No CPO report but I got all service records to look at. It does seem amazing to miss this. Otherwise, the car sounded stellar. I’m just very appreciative to the rennlister who took time out of his day to discover this, photograph it, and post it. That was above and beyond. I keep thinking… what if I had bought this and it arrived like that? Anyway, I have decided to pass on this one although I’m sure they’ll fix this nicely.

the car overall looked good just needed to be cleaned. i didnt get to look at the interior or under the car. honestly the bumper damage looked like it may have happened from the dealer. it looked fresh. they had 3 turbo's pulled up so close to a curb.

Wow, what a great person you are to have visited the place and looked at the car.

Thumbs way up to you Sir. People like you in these forums really add value.
OP - you need to visit the car yourself, even with a PPI inspection. it's needed. believe me.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...1a73010ada.gif

Porsche CPO requires the dealership to bring the car current on all service, both for mileage and time. If the PDCC res is due, it must get done.

Porsche dealers often advertise a car as "CPO", but don't actually go through the CPO process right away or sometimes not even until they have a buyer...

Here is a sample CPO checklist, see if your dealer can provide this to you if you are really interested in the car...

Thanks, and wow, that CPO report is detailed. Yeah, nothing like that was offered, just service invoices. But I decided I'm not interested any more with that rear bumper gash being missed by the dealer multiple times by multiple people. I went back and looked at the pics from the website and it's right there in the pics too, although you might not know what you are looking at and gloss over it easily with the resolution available. But anyway, that damage didn't just happen, it's been like this and somehow no one there noticed...

I wouldn't necessarily write off the car from consideration just because of some minor rear bumper skin damage. Yes, it's frustrating that dealer staff isn't always as discerning as they should be, but in my experience that is the norm rather than the exception.

The car will be gone over much more carefully during the CPO process, just insist on seeing and approving the documentation before finalizing the sale. I'm guessing the paperwork hasn't been given to you yet because it hasn't actually gone through the CPO process yet.

As long as there is either an appropriate price adjustment for the rear bumper skin repair (it's a pretty easy job) and no carfax entry (or a significantly bigger adjustment), it might be a fantastic car. The build certainly looks nice...

One of my buddies has a nearly identical car... 991.2 Turbo S, Sapphire Blue, Aerokit with black trim, etc. and it is absolutely stunning in person (and of course extremely quick...)

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...ba2c02591.jpeg

too many miles and rear bumper dmg? omg pass

Fixed it for ya.

Prices are really nuts... I looked at the ASKING prices of 2017 TTS' (what I have) and the ask for everyone listed is more than I paid almost 3 years ago).... I'll be honest I would let mine go for much less than these dealers are asking for a comparable 17 TTS. Now what I don't know is if these dealers are getting asking price or close to it......

This makes me feel like sticking with my very first feeling weeks ago, which is wait. This is probably the worst time in years to acquire a used 911. Patience is a virtue I need to practice.

Yep
 

I often wonder what I would do if I had made the decision to get a TTS now, instead of 15 months ago. I think I would also decide to wait. I have a mental block with overpaying for anything, especially toys that only get driven twice a month.

Or, if you really want a car now...Don't be afraid to "offend" or "hurt some feelings" with some "Realistic" offers!!

Asking prices may not be creating actual sells. There may be some folks out there willing to part with their very nice car simply because they are in need of parting with it.

If you're ready to buy, make some offers!

That color and options list is really nice. That bumper work should be listed on Carfax...any reputable dealer would report that. Maybe as others have suggested, use this as an option to really go in with a low offer $125ish or something. Also, if you do end up purchasing this, save all of those pics of the bumper damage so you could show a potential next purchaser if you decide to sell. It wouldn't be very descriptive on the Carfax. But this shouldn't be enough to scare anyone off. About as minor as they get.

This 2017 TTS just sold on BAT for $170k plus fees.


https://bringatrailer.com/listing/20...bo-s-coupe-12/



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Good sale!

I just bought a 2019 TTS and my philosophy was more, “let’s do it”.

The global supply problem will with us for at least another year if not two.

I'm more in the camp of I can but should I? And the more I am going to have to pay for something unnecessary that I want, especially, if it is 'historically' higher than the price should be, and the more 'static' I get in my quest (miraculously find out something is damaged that I thought was perfect, inquire about a car and find out it just sold.. etc.), the more I question the timing of the unnecessary thing I want to do or have. All of which leads me to wait.