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Hey all,
I have donned my flame suit and hope that you will understand the nature of the question and not flame me for this
Ok, I have donned my flame suit....
I am coming from a long line of cars, car modding and building....
With that said, I am not ignorant to cars but since this is a Porsche and a different beast than I have not worked on before I am looking for advice when it comes to mods
I am looking to see what can be gained on the cheap and on the reliable?
Ok, I can feel the heat from the group already, but let me say that I am not asking this as some 17 year old with a 20 year old Honda Civic.
I have a 2015 Turbo with a certification warranty til 2021... so anything I do I would like to be able to easily undo when going in for service.
Also, I know that though this car is engineered pretty well, but with that said I know there is still the freebie or cheap mods available. This is why they sell exhausts and intakes for this car, because these engines arent making power as much as they could by as freeing up the power potential it already has.
I had thought about gutting or removing the cats/ replacing downpipes, turning up the boost, and getting the car breathing a little better. Though, if these are done, will the computer adapt or will the computer still need reprogramming...
I am just looking at all my options.
I understand the "you get what you pay for" and I get the "you got an exotic, you should put good stuff into it"... but it isnt about spending the money, but getting what is wanted from it.
(ie. I have a 650hp Corvette. I was looking for a clutch and the internet group said I should get a McLoud triple disc... the issue was it is a racing clutch that hold 800-1000 hp and costs 1400 bucks.... and it did not fit what I wanted from the car. But I was told, why not get the best... Again, it didnt exactly work for my needs. I wanted a clutch with a stock/ street feel to hold the power. I found one that held the power and felt like stock and was perfect. and it was a single clutch and it was 400-500 bucks. So I didnt need to spend gobs of money for something that doesnt work I wanted it to).
I like to experiment and see what works well with cars as I have done in many many cars I have modified or built. Given I dont want to push it so far as to blow it up but I also dont want to blindly just spend a ton of money just because it is a Porsche. I was told this when I had my Hummer brought in for service.... "Hey Its a Hummer so it should cost alot of money".... Meanwhile it is really just a reworked Chevy/ GM truck... so really why would it cost more? Because of the name?
Anyways, I know this isnt a Vette or a Hummer (or an M3, S8 or any other cars I have built) and that is why I am humbly asking for peoples thoughts on the above questions.
And I am know I am asking whats cheap/ free hp for these cars, but that also doesnt mean I am eliminating the idea of a computer reprogram or something that costs a good bit of money yet doesnt cost as much as everything else.
So I am coming from the same background as you. Always owned and built my own cars including a 1000 hp Z06. Spent the last 6 months learning about my Turbo S. Here is what I have found.
1.) If you don’t immediately go tune such as Cobb which may require sending ECU out for unlock in later model 991.2’s, these cars respond well to enhancements for reduced turbo backpreasure and corresponding intake changes.
2.) Any hardware changes are ultimately limited by OEM ECU. A tune is really needed to get the biggest improvement.
3.) Eventually heat and IAT’s become the largest constant requiring octane, meth, and bigger Intercoolers.
4.) VTG turbo technology and traction/transmission become the final frontier. Aftermarket larger modified VTG turbos or non VTG gets you into the 900+ RWHP range
5.) some really good Tuners out there...do some searches and you will find them
Good news is these engines hold up really well stock to continued hard usage. Unlike having to forge bottom end’s and add billet components or larger fuel pumps and injectors..you can do a lot with these engines stock before needing to build them.
Exhaust first, Europipe, Kline or other that will help when you tune.
Cobb tune with the PDK Upgrade, you are a 991.1 so no need to remove the ECU
If you have Pzeros get the Michelin 4S or Cup
Car is a rocket ship with none of the above, with the above even faster. Then decide what you really want. None of the above are $500 but then nothing on these cars is.
What is your budget? You said "cheap". Cheap is $1,000 to some and $15,000 to others.. I know it may be a direct question - but everyone will be shooting in the dark without the answer.
Welcome and congratulations on the car! There’s a lot of gentleman here that were in your same exact boat who ended up becoming Porsche people for life! Good luck and feel free to reach out if I can ever help our with any questions or help!
Thanks so much TTz06, Elliott, Penn, Rodsky, and Sambo for the responses, hopefully they keep coming.
And I appreciate the "adult" responses... I always ask these questions to all the vehicles I buy and usually the responses are far more "insulting" with just a few that are constructive...
As for cheap or free or whatever...
I guess what I am wondering is
1) What can be done to help this car that is relatively free? (like would gutting the cats and pulling the mufflers for straight pipes work well? will pulling the air box for a open filter help? different fans for the intercoolers to help cooling? things like that....)
2) rodsky, I understand where you are coming from and I agree... it is vague I guess.... I am looking to add a little bit more umph for as cheap as possible. So I guess I am looking for the least expensive way to get a little more out of this car. The best bank for the buck, without going nuts with the bucks. Given I just dropped 112k on the car, which was a great deal but still with it being a certified car, I only want to spend a little bit and get more power but do something that can be reversed. Like I know on previous turbo'ed cars I have owned you could install a boost controller and increase the boost on the turbos and it was cheap.... (not saying I would do that, but wondering if it is an option or has been done)
3) TTz06, thanks for the info. It made it very clear. I am curious if there actually is an exhaust / intake that doesnt cost 3 million dollars and isnt made of unobtainium.... I dont want to go nuts, but just open up the cars breathing. I always found it funny how people were putting 5000 dollar exhausts on their cars when it really does the same as a 500 dollar exhaust, but its all light weight and such, which in the end really doesnt make a difference unless you are going from a huge pig iron clad stock exhaust weight 300 pounds to a aftermarket unobtainium exhaust that weighs 20.... thats like taking out a whole person out of the car and that makes sense. but 100 lbs to 40 lbs isnt a whole lot when you are just using the car on the street to enjoy the ride and the power
What I am wondering is the best bang for the buck. Not just the best, but the best for the money (as exampled in the original post about the clutch)
Also, could someone tell me what the stock turbo psi is set at. I made a few spirited runs last night after hanging out with some friends, and I saw 19, 7, 6, 8, 4, 5 and so on. I could really tell what the stock boost was set at
And everyone is right, the car is a rocket and it is instantly a car I love, and so easy to drive.
My supercharged M3 and supercharged C5 are amazing, but still not like this.
Truly there is no substitute
Thanks so much TTz06, Elliott, Penn, Rodsky, and Sambo for the responses, hopefully they keep coming.
And I appreciate the "adult" responses... I always ask these questions to all the vehicles I buy and usually the responses are far more "insulting" with just a few that are constructive...
As for cheap or free or whatever...
I guess what I am wondering is
1) What can be done to help this car that is relatively free? (like would gutting the cats and pulling the mufflers for straight pipes work well? will pulling the air box for a open filter help? different fans for the intercoolers to help cooling? things like that....)
2) rodsky, I understand where you are coming from and I agree... it is vague I guess.... I am looking to add a little bit more umph for as cheap as possible. So I guess I am looking for the least expensive way to get a little more out of this car. The best bank for the buck, without going nuts with the bucks. Given I just dropped 112k on the car, which was a great deal but still with it being a certified car, I only want to spend a little bit and get more power but do something that can be reversed. Like I know on previous turbo'ed cars I have owned you could install a boost controller and increase the boost on the turbos and it was cheap.... (not saying I would do that, but wondering if it is an option or has been done)
3) TTz06, thanks for the info. It made it very clear. I am curious if there actually is an exhaust / intake that doesnt cost 3 million dollars and isnt made of unobtainium.... I dont want to go nuts, but just open up the cars breathing. I always found it funny how people were putting 5000 dollar exhausts on their cars when it really does the same as a 500 dollar exhaust, but its all light weight and such, which in the end really doesnt make a difference unless you are going from a huge pig iron clad stock exhaust weight 300 pounds to a aftermarket unobtainium exhaust that weighs 20.... thats like taking out a whole person out of the car and that makes sense. but 100 lbs to 40 lbs isnt a whole lot when you are just using the car on the street to enjoy the ride and the power
What I am wondering is the best bang for the buck. Not just the best, but the best for the money (as exampled in the original post about the clutch)
Also, could someone tell me what the stock turbo psi is set at. I made a few spirited runs last night after hanging out with some friends, and I saw 19, 7, 6, 8, 4, 5 and so on. I could really tell what the stock boost was set at
And everyone is right, the car is a rocket and it is instantly a car I love, and so easy to drive.
My supercharged M3 and supercharged C5 are amazing, but still not like this.
Truly there is no substitute
I recommend giving Sam by Design a call, he can explain what your options are and related costs
Similar background with highly modified LS cars (Camaro, Corvette, GTO) and the TTS is a different genre of car. Refined muscle that's extremely fast right from the factory. Best bang for the buck mod for power and performance is hands down a tune. You also need an exhaust so the car sounds like a proper performance car. Everything else becomes very pricey for incremental gains.
I personally stayed away from a tune as I don't want to potentially jeopardize the factory warranty. The car is plenty fast for me. Sam hooked me up with the perfect exhaust for my goals.
Seems like you want a conservative state of tune for the visits to the service department. If that's the case, you should do an exhaust, Cobb Accessport, DSC Sport, drop springs, and better tires than stock and call it a day. Exhaust should be fine at most service departments and you can flash the ECU and TCU back to stock with the Cobb AP. The drop springs will void the suspension warranty, but when was the last time anyone needed to do warranty work on suspension?
I say screw the warranty and get a full bolt on package and drive something really special. I went with SamboTT and i'm happy. You can always message me if you have any questions.
Ohh and FYI a clutch for this car is no where near $1500. You need to add at least one zero to that number.
Thanks so much TTz06, Elliott, Penn, Rodsky, and Sambo for the responses, hopefully they keep coming.
And I appreciate the "adult" responses... I always ask these questions to all the vehicles I buy and usually the responses are far more "insulting" with just a few that are constructive...
As for cheap or free or whatever...
I guess what I am wondering is
1) What can be done to help this car that is relatively free? (like would gutting the cats and pulling the mufflers for straight pipes work well? will pulling the air box for a open filter help? different fans for the intercoolers to help cooling? things like that....)
2) rodsky, I understand where you are coming from and I agree... it is vague I guess.... I am looking to add a little bit more umph for as cheap as possible. So I guess I am looking for the least expensive way to get a little more out of this car. The best bank for the buck, without going nuts with the bucks. Given I just dropped 112k on the car, which was a great deal but still with it being a certified car, I only want to spend a little bit and get more power but do something that can be reversed. Like I know on previous turbo'ed cars I have owned you could install a boost controller and increase the boost on the turbos and it was cheap.... (not saying I would do that, but wondering if it is an option or has been done)
3) TTz06, thanks for the info. It made it very clear. I am curious if there actually is an exhaust / intake that doesnt cost 3 million dollars and isnt made of unobtainium.... I dont want to go nuts, but just open up the cars breathing. I always found it funny how people were putting 5000 dollar exhausts on their cars when it really does the same as a 500 dollar exhaust, but its all light weight and such, which in the end really doesnt make a difference unless you are going from a huge pig iron clad stock exhaust weight 300 pounds to a aftermarket unobtainium exhaust that weighs 20.... thats like taking out a whole person out of the car and that makes sense. but 100 lbs to 40 lbs isnt a whole lot when you are just using the car on the street to enjoy the ride and the power
What I am wondering is the best bang for the buck. Not just the best, but the best for the money (as exampled in the original post about the clutch)
Also, could someone tell me what the stock turbo psi is set at. I made a few spirited runs last night after hanging out with some friends, and I saw 19, 7, 6, 8, 4, 5 and so on. I could really tell what the stock boost was set at
And everyone is right, the car is a rocket and it is instantly a car I love, and so easy to drive.
My supercharged M3 and supercharged C5 are amazing, but still not like this.
Truly there is no substitute
As far as I'm concerned 1) call Sam 2) I'd suggest the Cobb AP tune / PDK tune. Its relatively inexpensive and will add oomph (HP/TQ) and adjust PDK that makes normal so much better and sport even more better . Bang for buck that may be the best. But I aint no expert. I got my Cobb a few weeks before the Kline headers and exhaust went on, and it was sorta step 1 and it was a definite upgrade. GL - even without anything the car is great. The tune really adds a lot tho.
I will echo what Rodsky is saying. I also worked with Sam buying and setting up my Cobb. Sam is passionate about Porsche's but most importantly he is passionate about his customers. Like Rodsky says run the PDK Update as it does transform the shift points and speed at which it shifts in either auto or manual. I am running the Sport setting as I felt Aggressive was just to Aggressive.
Had a Kline on my previous car and went with Europipe on the TTS as an opportunity came up to get one and I had 2 previously. Both are amazing quality and sound.
I am now considering the DSC module but am doing a few body updates, Aerokit pieces, first. I don't track anymore so more power seems useless. It's already warp speed capable.
Elliot, Dr, Hamster, rodsky, and penn...
Again! Thanks so much for the advice. It means alot. It seems like this is a much different animal though with the same parts....
- Elliot, thanks for the "sam" advice. I might have to look into it. Definitely good to see people recommending vendors versus the vendor themselves (had alot of that in the other cars I had... only later to hear that peoples cars went boom. ie HPF Supras and M3s with big numbers and just as big of explosions)
- Dr. Chill, you are right. I have 2.5 years of warranty and I am trying my best to keep it and not void it out, but then again... I would love to see how this thing runs with the bridal off. Given I dont want 1000 hp, but definitely a little more to make her competitive against some of the cars out there that have a far less price tag and a bit more power
Hamster, you killed me with that add a zero thing. definitely a good laugh, but sadly I know its true. I am curious though is the PDK a clutch setup that wears like a manual? Or is it more like how an auto would wear (I have seen automatics take forever to have any kind of an issue). I know that it isnt exactly an auto, but then again it isnt exactly a manual too... so I am just curious what the wear time is on these cars when it is just normally driven with a spirited interstate run every now and then. Oh yeah, btw, is your car normally rolling without the rear cover? I see a plate attached to the back. And DAMN those wheels are amazing!!!
- rodsky, when you get ready to put your headers on, could you snap me a picture of the stock headers versus the new headers. I am really curious how the two compare. I saw one set of aftermarket headers that looked like a cast set, so I am wondering.... especially since I am so used to seeing tube type headers for all the cars I have put together. Thanks for the advice thought. BTW, whats the color of your car... I love the silver and have seen other silvers that I wasnt a fan of... I wanted a dark silver color... so I ended up with black with no regrets except the occassional road rash that can be easily seen
- Penn, thanks for the info. Yeah I am a fan of testing out parts... given I know with the price tags on these cars and parts, it will make it alot harder. When I did japanese tuning... it was super easy, then get into the vettes and the price goes up and then further up in the M3. But then again I also didnt mind testing and swapping parts that were used either. And many times I would see how something was put together and make something myself in what I thought would be a better configuration or just something that would work better for my application. Yeah, I doubt my car will ever see any track time. I did that when I was younger and had a blast, but have kind of gotten out of it. Plus, I hate to say it but I also did win against alot of Porsches in just a 4 banger beat up Toyota.... but it lived in the redline and when the bearings spun or the rods flew, it was nothing to go out and pick up another. Hell, we used to have a guy that owned a nice Porsche show up in a rental car and track it, because he didnt want to hurt his Porsche.... I completely understand that. And it was always a great topic around the track :-P
Oh, I am curious too about these things guys.
I dont have any issues with putting on some hand-me-down parts.... so I am curious if things like wheels, intakes, headers, turbos, ecu, exhausts, or others parts are EXACTLY car specific?
Like I am sure that a GT3 center mount wheels wouldnt fit my standard 5 lug pattern, but what about things like exhausts from a GT3 or even a Carrera with turbos and so on.... what about parts off a 997 turbo?
I know the GT3 isnt turbo'ed I am just saying like what items can cross from fit? Like in the Vette world, there are alot of parts sold because... well.... the LS engine is pretty much across many models, and then of course many things fit each other.... like one thing I always hated to see but is very popular is the mounting of newer model stock wheels on older cars.
also, still curious what the stock boost level is set at? I saw quite a few numbers on the stock digital gauge the other night.
1. There are no cheap upgrades, period. However, Sam has a set of barely used cat delete pipes that came off my car, they bolt right up to the stock exhaust. I bet he’d sell them to you for around $500. (Sorry Sam for speaking for you!)
2. A tune is a must. I bought the Cobb AP from Sam, without the PDK upgrade. Figure a little less than $2000. I like how the car shifts stock, so saw no reason to upgrade to the PDK tune.
3. Do not try and bust the cat material out of your stock cats, just get cat delete pipes. You may want to return your car back to stock, and used cats ain’t cheap. See #8 below.
4. ANY exhaust you buy that uses the stock cats limits you to the stage 1 Cobb tune, stage 2 and above will overheat the stock cats.
5. You can use the stock muffler and cat delete pipes with a stage 2 tune, and it will run hard, but the stock muffler is still costing you power. And, the sound is still quiet and mediocre.
6. I’m using a modified Cobb stage 2 tune from Sam, and I ditched the stock muffler and bought a Kline Inconel exhaust from Sam (using the Kline cat delete pipes..which bolt to the Kline, versus the clamp style of the previously mentioned other cat delete pipes).
7. Removing the cats from the system will throw a code. Which you know what that means. I have an install thread here where I installed the Kline exhaust and I’m using Vibrant Performance O2 spacers. No code triggered with these. I should pass state inspection.
8. Aftermarket 200 and 100 cell cats are available that perform very well, and you can run just about any tune, and with the 200 cell cats won’t trigger a code (100 cell cats sometimes will trigger a code). But, I think each cat is around $1000.
9. The Kiline Inconel exhaust is so worth it. But, it is very expensive.
10. Buy all your parts from Sam and you’ll be happy.
Similar background with highly modified LS cars (Camaro, Corvette, GTO) and the TTS is a different genre of car. Refined muscle that's extremely fast right from the factory. Best bang for the buck mod for power and performance is hands down a tune. You also need an exhaust so the car sounds like a proper performance car. Everything else becomes very pricey for incremental gains.
I personally stayed away from a tune as I don't want to potentially jeopardize the factory warranty. The car is plenty fast for me. Sam hooked me up with the perfect exhaust for my goals.
Totally agree with this. Car is stupid fast from the factory. I added exhaust(Sharkwerks).
02-01-2019, 12:30 PM
Newbie... Turbo Mods... Flamesuit on
. Bang for buck that may be the best. But I aint no expert. I got my Cobb a few weeks before the Kline headers and exhaust went on, and it was sorta step 1 and it was a definite upgrade. GL - even without anything the car is great. The tune really adds a lot tho.
