onfireTTS

Good points. I'm just a battery buyer and user. I'm sure you have forgotten more than I'll ever know about Lithium Batteries. A few "hard knocks" lessons I have learned over the years racing have stayed with me. Lithium/build quality is like fuel. There are different grades. The OEM Lithium in my F90 is different then my Braille's. I have already read about F90 batteries failing in a few months. Braille has a 1/2% failure rate. Must be doing something right in the build quality and design to get that. I've never had one fail or discharge. But Competition is awesome for the end consumer. Brings better products and lower prices. I wish you well !

stealthpilot

I'm still struggling with this choice. Part of the challenge is it takes a week to ship from California. My battery is already dead. Also I have a slow puncture in my tire so need new tires and battery. I booked it into the dealer for Friday, but they are quoting $681 for Porsche battery, $311 for aftermarket battery. That's compared with $750 shipped for the Antigravity.

Also I doubt I will keep my car more than a year because I want to sell before CPO expires in August 2020. Don't know if the lithium battery makes it easier to sell or harder. Usually secondary buyers like everything factory.

I was originally going to buy the SUNCOAST OEM battery but with shipping that is over $400 which seems too much for old tech.

onfireTTS

Antigravity

Get the Car running and get a cheap Lead/Acid.... Then if you chose to go lithium before you sell your car remember you just keep the Lithium and put the Lead back in your Car and put the Lithium in your NEXT Car. I say this because if you buy an H6 size battery that will fit most every performance European Car as well as most non-performance European Cars on the Market... as well as many late model America Cars.

Here's why. Most all the Euro Cars use either the H6, H7, H8 Batteries... and MOST (except Porsche) mount the battery with cleats on the Battery using the FRONT AND BACK footers of the battery.... So that mean you can fit ANY "H" model battery in ALL those Carsbecause ALL the "H" series Batteries have the EXACT same WIDTH and HEIGHT.

It's sort of the same with Porsche because they mount from Left to Right with the cleat, but they have 3 screw holes in the Porsche Battery tray so you can use either H6, H7, H8 sizes also. But most the other Euro Cars are easier because they all use that standardized from to back size, so not matter how long the battery is it will still fit. That goes for VW, BMW , Ferrari, Lambos, Audis etc... So you can use our Battery to fit in the next Car you buy if its a Euro Car ( in most circumstances).

Also I will explain it here for those who don't know.... all the H6/ H7/ H8 batteries have the exact same HEIGHT and WIDTH.... with only the LENGTH changing.... But the Porsche Trays have extra bolt holes to fit the longer or shorter distances between the H6/H7/H8 models .... so you can use any of them, but they get longer and heavier as the size goes up. So it depends on how many amp hours you want. But they all work. H6 is the smallest... and we actually offer and H5 which is smaller, but the Porsche Tray won't fit that one because it doesn't have a bolt hold to fit the smaller H5 battery length, but the other Euro Cars do because they mount from front to back and H5 is same width as H6,

stealthpilot

Scott

Now that my car is operational again I am looking into getting a lithium battery. Most likely your new 40AH H6.

I do have some concerns though having read some reviews of your products on Amazon and Reddit:
1) The amazon reviews of your micro starter battery packs have several complaints about the battery expanding after a year or so. Obviously this implies these micro starter packs don't have a BMS to prevent overcharging or it isn't working properly. Further some of these amazon reviews mention issues with warranty claims.
2) I read this 3 year old review on Reddit. Obviously one off failures can occur. But what concerned me more is the comments about your warranty on that thread.
https://www.reddit.com/r/motorcycles...N0&sh=8b07b3e7

So I then read your warranty for the Automotive battery.
https://shop.antigravitybatteries.co...-Batteries.pdf

Now a few things concern me about your warranty:
1) There are a lot of exclusions. I understand an exclusion for physical damage - that makes sense. But I would have thought your BMS would render most of the other exclusions unnecessary. Surely a BMS would shut down charging if it is getting too much voltage or being overcharged for instance? Likewise you have warranty exclusions for over discharge of the battery and over discharge due to parasitic drains. Isn't the value proposition of your battery that this cannot happen as the BMS prevents overdischarge? So why is it an exclusion in the warranty? This exclusion implies the BMS doesn't function as claimed!
2) One of your exclusions is that you won't honor the warranty if the vehicle's charging system over charges the battery. However you also say you have deliberately not coded your own Porsche for the lithium battery you installed which means you are running this risk. When you posted that you seem to be contradicting your own warranty. I would have thought you should be mandating the update of the software to ensure the vehicles voltage regulator is Lithium-safe IF you are later going to use this to deny a warranty claim. Without coding the vehicles voltage regulator is set for an AGM lead acid battery. So is Antigravity's position that a dead battery that was overcharged by the vehicle's regulator would not be covered under warranty if the owner had not had the dealer code his car for lithium prior to installation?
3) You limit the warranty replacements to just one over the 5 year period. I don't understand why you would have such a limit if you stand behind your product and you also have stringent limitations within your warranty to exclude any claim that could even vaguely be caused by user behavior.

Please can you explain? I'm hoping you will say you have a new automotive battery warranty policy to reflect the in built protections of your new automotive battery and that the one on your website that I linked above is out of date.

Just to be clear I am quite excited about buying your battery. The level of innovation is state of the art. But it is a new product and at $800+ I need to have a degree of confidence that if it fails I am covered and that people vouch for your warranty.

Antigravity

In most cases the swelling is just a high-temperature issue such as with the MICRO-START being left on the dash or other susceptible area in a hot climate, and it also VERY rare, but when it happens it will be blasted about for sure on Amazon, even after we replaced the unit to the customer. Also note we have it clearly written in the Users Manual NOT to leave it in areas in excess of 120 degrees because swelling may happen.

Additionally this is a Lithium Polymer product which is a much more sensitive form of Lithium-Ion chemistry than what is used in a Automotive Battery (Iron-Phosphate) and will swell when exposed to temps over 120F for a period of time. It can also swell if over-stressed, meaning depending on the model they use, sometimes they can over stress it by using it on too big of a motor than intended or over-cranking it. Its a pocket size jump starter and has its limitation and can be overheated by the methods I just described. Additionally some have swelled and we don't know why. So there are variable within any bad review.

Often times we will get a bad review after not allowing a Warranty. For example if we see the plug in tip for the Clamps burned that is a direct sign the mini- jump starter was used in a way that allowed extremely high heat to develop in the plastic plug in tip... which is rated at about 300 degrees to melt... so if it melts you were either cranking for longer than 7 seconds, which we specifically state not to do, or you were trying to start a larger harder to start vehicle. So there are variables in why a unit may swell but it is surely not often..... regardless of the Amazon statements. Not saying every swelling issue was the Customers fault, but I am saying there are variables and if you anger some Customers with a declined Warranty you will get surely a bad rating on Amazon.

To add another level of information onto this.....you are probably not aware of how many of the MICRO-START we have sold.... We actually broke 1 MILLION units sold since 2013. We originated that product in 2013, the FIRST to market with an innovative product... yep, just like the Car Battery . Also note we were awarded Consumer Reports "Best Rated Jump Starter" for the XP-10 model. That is an entirely independent testing at Consumer Reports and it was against 14 other models in the comparison. Does that mean we have not had problems ever and its perfect... not at all, but compared to other products we are still top of the class.

Also your statement saying that "obviously this implies our MICRO-START does not have a BMS to prevent over-charging or doesn't work." That a pretty big jump to conclusions when your not aware of how the product works. The fact is it does have a BMS, but there are two different Circuits on this type jump start product... I think you are trying to logically conclude that the MICRO-START and the Automotive Starter Batteries are the same products and would act the same, and do the same thing. They are not. Its two very different Lithium chemistry's that requiring vastly different parameters in how they are charged and are used with Automobiles. Lithium Polymer such as the jump starter cannot be used as a Starter Battery for a Car. Nor is the circuity for the protections the same. So they can't be compared at all.

Well again... perspective...You are presenting a 3 year old review of a NON-PROTECTED Battery vs our latest Technology...they are vastly different. If you read my posts here and elsewhere on this site regarding Lithium Batteries without Protections, I speak of the risk/ dangers of it. I also stated we STILL make Models of batteries without protections, and we still sell a ton of them, they absolutely have their use. So the guy who posted on Reddit was using this type of NON-PROTECTED Battery. And IF you read my earlier posts you would also see I spoke of the causes of Thermal Runaway such as defective Voltage Regulators ( very important mostly in older Motorcycles) putting out too much voltage, over-discharge of the battery, then recharging too fast from a low state of charge, or using a Lead/Acid Charger on Lithium Battery. I've spoke of this on multiple threads..... We address these risk potentials in our Users Manual that every battery comes with, we address the dangers with Lithium Batteries in our Users Manual and on the battery itself with a Warning Sticker. We address the use of these batteries in pre 1990s Motorcycles (which the Reddit person had) and the potential for defective/outdated voltage regulators in older Motorcycles. Yet there will still occasionally be a customer who says "its all the batteries fault only". Well if the battery was swollen, we pretty much KNOW it was over-charged, or put on a lead acid charger. It WILL NOT do that out of the blue. There has to be some type of high stress to the battery for Thermal Runaway to happen.

I'm sure we probably denied his warranty and he was going to bash us about it, and he was probably upset, but if you are NOT following our instruction for the safest operation, then we will deny the Warranty. When you open the box for any of our Small Case Batteries without these protections the first thing you will see is the USERS MANUAL WARNING because our Users Manual is on top of the battery once you open the box... If someone feels they will not take the time to read our Users Manual, when it clearly states DANGER! WARNING! READ THIS MANUAL FIRST! ...then they are taking risks OUTSIDE of our statements for safe operation.

This is why we developed the RE-START batteries to eliminate most of that risk. The Custom Motorcycle Market is 90% of any warranties we get... that is due to the fact that most the bikes are old and have faulty/outdated voltage regulators, and back yard builders who DON'T know about electrical systems or voltage regulators and stick a Lithium Battery into a 1990s and earlier Bike with 18v spiking into the battery... and it melts down. They didn't read the two sections about checking for this in pre 1990s bikes they ignored reading the Users Manual. So YES, our staff will deny the Warranty, and if you DID NOT READ our Users Manual, and chose to do things as you see fit, you are going to be offended when we tell you "this battery is severely swollen and that can only occur with over-charge"...but if you are like 99% of Customers and choose to understand the product then you are going to have a great experience with the products.

Here's our Warranty information page... and if you read our Warranty Ex plainer you will also see how in-depth we are about our Warranty.

Warranty Help Page...... https://shop.antigravitybatteries.com/help-center/info-downloads/#product-registration-warranties] https://shop.antigravitybatteries.co...ion-warranties

Warranty Explainer Page, which CLEARLY explains all about the causes of Warranty issues. https://shop.antigravitybatteries.co...ion-warranties

I'll address your other parts to you email later about the Starter Battery Warranty.

Randyc151

I just did a search of Antigravity batteries on Amazon. Nearly all have 4 stars or higher. If there was any real issue at all, they would not have products with over a thousand reviews and 4 stars or higher. Remember, people typically only do reviews when they are mad.

Steve Theodore

Very true, and why I try to force myself to give positive ratings too, as they are absolutely due when we have been treated well or have been provided with a superior product or service.

stealthpilot

I may not have written the question clearly enough so let me rephrase:

1) One of the compelling characteristics of your new Automotive battery is that the BMS protects the battery against over discharge and over charging. Given that this is the case, does your warranty for the new battery still exclude warranty claims relating over charging or over discharging?

2) Why do you limit the warranty replacements to only 1 battery?

Antigravity

I read your post and fully understand it..... BUT If you read the last sentence in that post I wrote you, I say ll will address your questions about he Warranties on the new Starter batteries later. I am out of the office snowboarding to be exact... I'll get back to you this evening on this.... and I WANT to address it clearly.

Need4S

I will want one of the new batteries when they're available. I looked up the OEM size and it looks like an H8 for my '15 991 Turbo. I assume if I want the 40Ah model it will be a slightly shorter H7, but it will fit, right?

Also, to answer someone else's question, yes you will need a Li-ion-specific charger/maintainer. Here's a CTEK one that I'm getting. https://www.ctek.com/products/vehicle/lithium-xs

Antigravity

This should have the fittings actually for multiple H series sizes as most of the other modern Porsche's do so while you could go with the H7 you should still even be able to to with the H6 as well. You should be able to see the option cleat locations for mounting when you remove the existing and yes, we would definitely agree the 40Ah option would be the way to go as well.

stealthpilot

Antigravity

Ahhh...good catch! Our site has a template that was used when we were setting up the new line but still based off of our motorsports batteries. The truth is the H series will be 24, 30, and 40 actual Ah (not Pb Eq) So we'll be getting that updated and sorry if it created any confusion. So to clarify the 40Ah option will be the largest available. And technically yes, the expanded line is an even bigger improvement on the awesome RS-30 as these will let you access an even deeper capacity but still allow for the dedicated reserve for Re-Start. They also do stay active until they go into sleep mode and have the fob remote feature which was not available on the RS-30.

Nanook

Are you represented or shipping this new unit into Canada yet?