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Buy a 2017 Turbo (not S)

 
Old 11-24-2018, 10:27 PM
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Bill_76
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Default Buy a 2017 Turbo (not S)

Hi everybody! I actually have a Cayman GT4 and thinking to add to my garage a 2017 Turbo (not S) with 8k miles. I was looking to a GT3 at first but as the car that it will replace has 4 seats (2018 Camaro ZL1) my wife complains about to have the two sport cars with 2 seats only. I have 2 kids and sometimes we go for a ride all together in the ZL1.

The question is being not a Turbo S how will it manage the depreciation?, in the GT4 and GT3 it is not a big concern.

Thank you!

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Old 11-25-2018, 12:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Bill_76 View Post
The question is being not a Turbo S how will it manage the depreciation?, in the GT4 and GT3 it is not a big concern.
TurboS and Turbo models seem to have the largest magnitude of depreciation. This makes sense since those are the most expensive non-GTx models.

My jury is out on whether or not they have disproportionately larger percentage depreciation that the non-capitial-T Turbo models.

Data on Turbo depreciation is no more than half-as-available as data on Turbo S depreciation since the TurboS (all types) seems to sell at 2x or more the rate of Turbos:

https://rennlist.com/forums/991/1100...it-thread.html

... and I see way more than 2x used TurboSs than Turbos.

All that said, it's the options on the non-S models (or GTS models for 991 non-capitial-T Turbos) that depreciate the most. So, a highly-spec'd Turbo will have a percentage depreciation larger than a low-spec Turbo.

Bottom line: a Turbo or Turbo S will depreciate a lot more than a GT4 or GT3. Will a Turbo depreciate more on a percentage basis than a Turbo S? Maybe. Will a Turbo depreciate in magnitude more than a Turbo S? I don't think so if it is a low-spec Turbo. And maybe not even then.

With the 992 Turbos coming, I would expect a Turbo fleet-wide depreciation hit late next year when the gotta-have-the-newest folks start trading-up. Shortly after that point I expect 991 Turbo and TurboS values to become pretty stable in the 50-60% of MSRP range. (If 996TT and 997TT values are a guide.)


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Old 11-25-2018, 12:52 AM
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Originally Posted by worf928 View Post
TurboS and Turbo models seem to have the largest magnitude of depreciation. This makes sense since those are the most expensive non-GTx models.

My jury is out on whether or not they have disproportionately larger percentage depreciation that the non-capitial-T Turbo models.

Data on Turbo depreciation is no more than half-as-available as data on Turbo S depreciation since the TurboS (all types) seems to sell at 2x or more the rate of Turbos:

https://rennlist.com/forums/991/1100...it-thread.html

... and I see way more than 2x used TurboSs than Turbos.

All that said, it's the options on the non-S models (or GTS models for 991 non-capitial-T Turbos) that depreciate the most. So, a highly-spec'd Turbo will have a percentage depreciation larger than a low-spec Turbo.

Bottom line: a Turbo or Turbo S will depreciate a lot more than a GT4 or GT3. Will a Turbo depreciate more on a percentage basis than a Turbo S? Maybe. Will a Turbo depreciate in magnitude more than a Turbo S? I don't think so if it is a low-spec Turbo. And maybe not even then.

With the 992 Turbos coming, I would expect a Turbo fleet-wide depreciation hit late next year when the gotta-have-the-newest folks start trading-up. Shortly after that point I expect 991 Turbo and TurboS values to become pretty stable in the 50-60% of MSRP range. (If 996TT and 997TT values are a guide.)
Very clear, thank you! One more what do you think about a price of $140k for this car 2017 8k miles Turbo, expresso interior with wood trim and steel brakes.
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Old 11-25-2018, 01:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Bill_76 View Post
Very clear, thank you! One more what do you think about a price of $140k for this car 2017 8k miles Turbo, expresso interior with wood trim and steel brakes.
No link. Can't say. What was MSRP? Do you have the full option list? That written, $140k seems a bit high for a - presumably - $175k MSRP two-year old Turbo. CPO adds $4-5K in value (that's a guess as I think CPO is more-expensive for Turbo(S).)

You can always go to KBB and Edmunds and punch-in the trade-in value of this Turbo and see what it says. Figure the dealer won't take less than $10k profit ($14k if CPO.) I would guess that the trade-in value on a $175k '17 Turbo would be $120k-ish if it's a recent trade.

My 2015 Turbo was a very-high spec Turbo. I ordered it that way. So, I have very definite opinions on which options a Turbo should have: 18-way seats and PDCC. LED headlights I have but could live without. Etc. And I don't give a rat's a$$ about depreciation 'cause I ain't sellin' it anytime soon, if ever.
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Old 11-25-2018, 07:50 AM
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I'd say the 991.2 TT and TTS hold their value very well compared to all other sports cars except GT cars. I don't expect the 992 Turbo introduction in 2 years to significantly affect the 991.2 depreciation curve. Manheim is the barometer of wholesale value. Here you go.
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Old 11-25-2018, 09:18 AM
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The GT 4 and GT3 are unique in the Porsche line up and hold value quite well.
I have had 5 TT cars including my current TTS. I expect it to depreciate to a point and then hold like previous generation TT's have. I try not to let the depreciation enter into my buying experience too much or I most likely wouldn't buy any high priced sports car.
For me the TT and TTS cars are special and so enjoyable to drive with so much power at your disposal. Easily modded to get even more without harming the long term maintenance of the car too. I love mine and will keep it long enough so the depreciation won't matter much to me.
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Old 11-25-2018, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by worf928 View Post
No link. Can't say. What was MSRP? Do you have the full option list? That written, $140k seems a bit high for a - presumably - $175k MSRP two-year old Turbo. CPO adds $4-5K in value (that's a guess as I think CPO is more-expensive for Turbo(S).)

You can always go to KBB and Edmunds and punch-in the trade-in value of this Turbo and see what it says. Figure the dealer won't take less than $10k profit ($14k if CPO.) I would guess that the trade-in value on a $175k '17 Turbo would be $120k-ish if it's a recent trade.

My 2015 Turbo was a very-high spec Turbo. I ordered it that way. So, I have very definite opinions on which options a Turbo should have: 18-way seats and PDCC. LED headlights I have but could live without. Etc. And I don't give a rat's a$$ about depreciation 'cause I ain't sellin' it anytime soon, if ever.
Will have all the info during the week, and Iĺll post it. Thanks!!
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Old 11-25-2018, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Dr Chill View Post
I'd say the 991.2 TT and TTS hold their value very well compared to all other sports cars except GT cars. I don't expect the 992 Turbo introduction in 2 years to significantly affect the 991.2 depreciation curve. Manheim is the barometer of wholesale value. Here you go.
tahbk you it helps!
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Old 11-25-2018, 02:25 PM
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I project that 991.2 GT3 will have similar depreciation curves in the future to other 911s or Turbo/Turbo S as they have produced just way too many in one year, i.e. over 2700 in 2018 alone for North America..........

What has kept the prices and short term values up are the ADM games that the dealers have played to absolute perfection with Porsche turning their backs on the practice.......

Porsche created quite a preoccupation by most of us on value retention and depreciation curves due to the "anomaly" they created in the Porsche world with GT3s.

GT3s are actually easy to get if you want to pay over MSRP..............the GT3 touring model may hold a bit better and be harder to find right now, but not loads better holding its value over time - they made 600 of those to date in one year - more than a Carrera GTS coupe or Targa 4 GTS.....the Touring is still a GT3 991.2 with close to 3000 sold just for North America.......these numbers can be found in GT3 section of the forum....

The GT3 Speedster may be the exception as far as retaining value and actually appreciating long term and has a chance to be a real collectible, if kept in low quantities of production....like the 911R.....

The 991.2 GT3 production in one year was about equal to the 3 year run of GT3s from 2014-2016........the ADM dynamic created all this discussion about values.........i.e. which is a great thing for people not wanting to rack up miles on their cars because they don't want to lose any money and/or flip them for a small profit, relatively speaking....

What a gravy train for VW and the dealers selling Porsches for exceptional "once in a lifetime" profits while the economy is smoking hot......Porsche is an expert marketer and really squeezed this opportunity to the MAX..........

In the end, if you love driving a car, that is the bottom-line for ownership and if you use it regularly instead of garage queening it, even better yet.....really interesting scenario that all business schools and marketing majors should have a class on)
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Old 11-25-2018, 06:33 PM
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I am looking into upgrading into a GT3 or TTS (991.2). I'm not willing to play the dealer games paying over MSRP for a GT3 Touring. Thanks for mentioning the numbers of GT3's built. Now I feel like I just need to exercise a little patience. Once the initial allocations are sold off at a premium to those with less patience and deeper pockets than I, hopefully I'll be able to snag one without having to pay 20% or more markup. If the GT3's or still commanding a hefty ransom plan B is to grab a CPO TTS 991.2..... preferably in night blue metallic! Plan C = 458!
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Old 11-25-2018, 06:54 PM
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If you are using car as DD and some track, the TTS is more suited..I could not manage using my GT3 as a daily...too raw......TTS has better overall driveability for daily use which has been mentioned throughout the forum....if a fun extra car GT3 would be great....
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Old 11-25-2018, 10:23 PM
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Think,of getting out of my 2017 Carrera GTS.

I’m so on the fence on getting a TTS or a this certain 2018 GT3 I can get at msrp that has 5000 miles on it. This is not going to be daily driver...but weekend on go to dinner toy and some track events.

im a track guy but don’t go nearly as much as I use to...maybe if lucky 3-4 track days total a year.

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Old 11-25-2018, 10:39 PM
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Has anyone seen production numbers of 991.2 TT(S)? The few dealers I've visited have sold several times more GT3s than TT(S). All about supply and demand, if there's that much demand for hard core GT cars, then they may continue to hold, especially if this is the last non-turbo GT3. Otherwise, I agree, can't see them continuing to hold up any better than TTS over the next couple of years.
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Old 11-25-2018, 11:20 PM
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I believe based on various sources on Rennlist that about 1000 TTS 991.2s have been sold in the North American market versus the 2700 plus 991.2 GT3...and about 500 TTs. Check the GT3 section of the forum in the sticky for GT3 production numbers.....



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Old 11-26-2018, 01:25 AM
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Originally Posted by swoobie View Post
Has anyone seen production numbers of 991.2 TT(S)?
Originally Posted by worf928 View Post
... since the TurboS (all types) seems to sell at 2x or more the rate of Turbos:
https://rennlist.com/forums/991/1100...it-thread.html
Yo! ------^
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