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991 Turbo Turbo and Turbo S

Gt3 better then a TTS?

 
Old 10-18-2018, 07:42 PM
  #76  
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Cup2 tires on a 991 TT or TTS get it really close in overall lap times to a GT3. Depending on the track, one may be quicker than the other. The amount of added grip from the Cup2 tires is amazing. I am planning to switch back to regular street tires (MPSS) for what passes as “winter” here in NorCal. I hope I don’t miss the grip too much, but am a bit chicken about using Cup2 tires in colder or wetter conditions.
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Old 10-18-2018, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Big Swole View Post
^^^^^Thank you SIR!!! That made me feel a lot better.. I was hoping that was just one random opinion vs. fact about our 997.2TTS's.
Thanks Big S. although I disagreed with the prior comment about the 997TT/S, it doesn’t take away from the fact that the 991TTS is arguably hands down the best all-around sports car on the market today. The 991TTS rules the street and often dominates on the track, but the 991GT3 will never best a TTS on the street (even in Touring form) in all around utility. Your 997.2 TTS is a really special car, enjoy it. I miss mine often.
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Old 10-18-2018, 10:27 PM
  #78  
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Originally Posted by Akunob View Post

Thanks Big S. although I disagreed with the prior comment about the 997TT/S, it doesn’t take away from the fact that the 991TTS is arguably hands down the best all-around sports car on the market today. The 991TTS rules the street and often dominates on the track, but the 991GT3 will never best a TTS on the street (even in Touring form) in all around utility. Your 997.2 TTS is a really special car, enjoy it. I miss mine often.

Oh, don't get me wrong on either account. I LOVE my 997.2TTS, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't want a 991.1TTS and especially a 991.2 TTS. I'm a performance junky for sure.

I was in the mountains driving again yesterday. I did find the traction limit once in a left hander, but kinda did it on purposes to see how it felt with these tires. I know better tires would help (PS4S's or Cup2's) but these were brand new when I bought the car, so I need to wear them out first.

Thanks again for the words. Cheers!!
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Old 10-18-2018, 10:31 PM
  #79  
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Originally Posted by Need4S View Post
Cup2 tires on a 991 TT or TTS get it really close in overall lap times to a GT3. Depending on the track, one may be quicker than the other. The amount of added grip from the Cup2 tires is amazing. I am planning to switch back to regular street tires (MPSS) for what passes as “winter” here in NorCal. I hope I don’t miss the grip too much, but am a bit chicken about using Cup2 tires in colder or wetter conditions.
Cup 2 tires on a .2 991TTS actually gets it closer to .1 GT3RS lap times. A well driven .2 991TTS is faster than most GT3s, on track, with the exception of the 991.2 GT3.
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Old 10-18-2018, 11:35 PM
  #80  
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Originally Posted by Big Swole View Post
Never heard this take before. I sure hope that's not quite the truth. I don't have much to compare to since coming from a 996TT to the 997.2 TTS, but I love how it handles. Of course on track that may change. With better tires It could change too. My PS2's are decent but I've reached their limit in the mountains a few times.
I should be more specific, horrible balance at the limits. Below the limits, they handle super nice. I tracked my old 996s, 997s, 991s and current 991s with nannies off, except when the race track is wet/snow, and for street driving the nannies stay on. Porsche has not yet made a car that is faster with the nannies on compared to nannies off.

The performance limits cannot be reached with nannies on. With nannies off and at the limits, the 997 TT understeers badly due to the electronic torque shift to the front axle. We installed 400# front and 600# rear springs, then 600# front and 900#, up to 600# front and 1200# rear springs to correct it, and it just could not work, played with little rear toe-in, 0 rear toe, camber, etc. B|B|i did some work on another 997.2 Turbo S for handling improvements, and they found similar issues, that car was driven by one of the best amateur drivers I know.

On my 991 Turbo S and 991 GT3 RS for track use I run the same wheels and tires: 19" and true track tires (Hoosiers 295 front and 345 rear) same size for both. Understeer reduction was one of the biggest gains in the 991TTS, there is less torque transfer to the front axle, and there is also RWS helping on the tight turns, the weight distribution massive shift helped as well compared to the 997 TT, and this is what sold me on the 991 Turbo S around 3 years ago. It handles a lot better.

Despite of being AWD, my 991 TTS is more tail happy and requires more finesse on corner exit than my 991 GT3 RS, again same wheels/tires for both, as to not compare tires but cars. My TTS has had improvements made as it still has a lot of potential that the GT3 RS doesn't have, I'm on my 4th suspension and have a 5th suspension kit ready to install but haven't for lack of commitment. On any racetrack, my lap times in the 991 TTS are better than the GT3RS, the one exception: Daytona where my TTS goes crazy on the electronics, cuts power, the brakes go limp, and I have to call it a day.

One thing all 997s have, much better steering feedback than 991s. Another draw back on the 997.2 Turbo S, it won't hold the gears in manual mode, it will downshift from 3rd to 2nd instead of holding 3rd on esses, it will also upshift at redline instead of bouncing the rev limiter (bad when you are about to get on the brakes).
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Old 10-19-2018, 12:07 AM
  #81  
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Nice summary...
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Old 10-19-2018, 09:43 AM
  #82  
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Originally Posted by A/S View Post
Despite of being AWD, my 991 TTS is more tail happy and requires more finesse on corner exit
Yes sir, I find my car likes to step out a bit on throttle application. It feels fine to my style, it's when I do something dumb like fully lift throttle that the car gets harder to handle.
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Old 10-19-2018, 10:29 AM
  #83  
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So bottom line the question of - Whats better a GT3 or a TT - is probably not a valid question. Its horses for courses. GT3 is better as a track weapon, loud, raw, NA, buckets, linear power, handles like nothing else, lighter, scalpel, 2WD,... TT is very sporty but make no mistake its better for the street and being a GT car that can step into a Canyon and feel totally at home and occasionally take it to track. Its comfortable, luxurious, has a great stereo, quieter, heated and cooled seats, full leather, all the mod cons, PDK, heavier (but not heavy). Taking it to an extreme, you would never ask whats better a Performante or a Lamborghini Urus (SUV). Both are fast and handle well but from there its horses for courses.

Having just got a TT and using it for what its good at, its amazing. Maybe the best at its application. I wonder how i didnt do this before. But i still want a GT3. You could mod a TT and strap on 1000 HP, lower it etc. Have faster track times.... but it still isn't a GT3. Doesn't mean one is better than the other. Or vice versa.
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Old 10-19-2018, 01:46 PM
  #84  
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Exactly.......GT3 is an awesome beast for what it is and Tt and TTS is a much more versatile car....question that garnered lots of response was not well based...wish I could have kept both....but my better half rules at times....
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Old 10-19-2018, 02:56 PM
  #85  
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In my opinion, the 991 TTS is a better car, you get more car for your money.

The GT3 (and GT3 RS in my case) looks more aggressive, it looks better, so if you define which car is better by its looks, then some Lambos, Ferraris and select McLarens have better looks than any 991, but between a GT3 and a TTS the GT3 looks better (and the RS even better).

Engine sound, it is the RS. I re-installed my Kline Inconel X-pipe race muffler (their limited production 3" version), and it is the best sounding 991 TTS I have heard, but the TTS doesn't spin to 8,500-9,000rpm, and the sound up there is just shocking thrilling in the GT3.

For track use, both are very capable, and the performance difference cannot be determined in lap times by average drivers. Driven near their limits, the TTS produces better lap times (on equal tires/wheels). The RS is easier to drive at the limit, the TTS requires the driver to be more sensitive or the car steps away from you, this is due to the soft bushings and body movements that cause unpredictable behaviors at the limit, at 10/10th the TTS requires more attention than the RS.

One car cannot replace the other, I went with both, I considered 458/488/675LT/650S/720S/570S/Huracan and either a 991 TTS or 991 GT3 RS (a Porsche and a non-Porsche), the right decision is both TTS and GT3RS (they are built like tanks, dependable, don't spend weeks getting fixed for unreliable parts). I may be adding a Cayman GT4 soon (shopping right now).

Best car for the money: used 991.1 Turbo S: $140k doesn't buy a better car => add exhaust, IC, tune on ECU/PDK, wheels/tires, good springs, DSC, powerflex bushings, camber plates, and you have a car that can run with a 991 GT2 RS (forget GT3 or GT3 RS track performance). Step up to 991.2 Turbo S, get another 40-50hp on same mods.
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Old 10-19-2018, 03:31 PM
  #86  
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Originally Posted by rodsky View Post
So bottom line the question of - Whats better a GT3 or a TT - is probably not a valid question. Its horses for courses. GT3 is better as a track weapon, loud, raw, NA, buckets, linear power, handles like nothing else, lighter, scalpel, 2WD,... TT is very sporty but make no mistake its better for the street and being a GT car that can step into a Canyon and feel totally at home and occasionally take it to track. Its comfortable, luxurious, has a great stereo, quieter, heated and cooled seats, full leather, all the mod cons, PDK, heavier (but not heavy). Taking it to an extreme, you would never ask whats better a Performante or a Lamborghini Urus (SUV). Both are fast and handle well but from there its horses for courses.

Having just got a TT and using it for what its good at, its amazing. Maybe the best at its application. I wonder how i didnt do this before. But i still want a GT3. You could mod a TT and strap on 1000 HP, lower it etc. Have faster track times.... but it still isn't a GT3. Doesn't mean one is better than the other. Or vice versa.
^^ this. Couldn’t have said it better. Well said.
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Old 10-19-2018, 03:54 PM
  #87  
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Originally Posted by A/S
In my opinion, the 991 TTS is a better car, you get more car for your money.

The GT3 (and GT3 RS in my case) looks more aggressive, it looks better, so if you define which car is better by its looks, then some Lambos, Ferraris and select McLarens have better looks than any 991, but between a GT3 and a TTS the GT3 looks better (and the RS even better).

Engine sound, it is the RS. I re-installed my Kline Inconel X-pipe race muffler (their limited production 3" version), and it is the best sounding 991 TTS I have heard, but the TTS doesn't spin to 8,500-9,000rpm, and the sound up there is just shocking thrilling in the GT3.

For track use, both are very capable, and the performance difference cannot be determined in lap times by average drivers. Driven near their limits, the TTS produces better lap times (on equal tires/wheels). The RS is easier to drive at the limit, the TTS requires the driver to be more sensitive or the car steps away from you, this is due to the soft bushings and body movements that cause unpredictable behaviors at the limit, at 10/10th the TTS requires more attention than the RS.

One car cannot replace the other, I went with both, I considered 458/488/675LT/650S/720S/570S/Huracan and either a 991 TTS or 991 GT3 RS (a Porsche and a non-Porsche), the right decision is both TTS and GT3RS (they are built like tanks, dependable, don't spend weeks getting fixed for unreliable parts). I may be adding a Cayman GT4 soon (shopping right now).

Best car for the money: used 991.1 Turbo S: $140k doesn't buy a better car => add exhaust, IC, tune on ECU/PDK, wheels/tires, good springs, DSC, powerflex bushings, camber plates, and you have a car that can run with a 991 GT2 RS (forget GT3 or GT3 RS track performance). Step up to 991.2 Turbo S, get another 40-50hp on same mods.
Very well stated.....funny...and subjective....TurboS to me in the right color is better looking car and based on "stoplight feedback".....let's NOT start a thread on that)))

LOL...

TTS and GT3 RS both in the garage is it!!
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Old 10-19-2018, 05:33 PM
  #88  
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Originally Posted by Georgemaser View Post
Why do all the reviewers rave about the gt3 and they are not as kind to the tts? Calling it boring? Why is the gt3 so much better?
They rave because it's a more track and driver focused car that can serve as a full race car, it's just a different beast than the TTS which is a heavier but faster GT car which can be driven on the track but is less optimized.

For driving everyday on real world roads the TTS is the no Brainer d choice for most owners with means.
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Old 10-19-2018, 07:26 PM
  #89  
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Originally Posted by A/S View Post
I should be more specific, horrible balance at the limits. Below the limits, they handle super nice. I tracked my old 996s, 997s, 991s and current 991s with nannies off, except when the race track is wet/snow, and for street driving the nannies stay on. Porsche has not yet made a car that is faster with the nannies on compared to nannies off.

The performance limits cannot be reached with nannies on. With nannies off and at the limits, the 997 TT understeers badly due to the electronic torque shift to the front axle. We installed 400# front and 600# rear springs, then 600# front and 900#, up to 600# front and 1200# rear springs to correct it, and it just could not work, played with little rear toe-in, 0 rear toe, camber, etc. B|B|i did some work on another 997.2 Turbo S for handling improvements, and they found similar issues, that car was driven by one of the best amateur drivers I know.

On my 991 Turbo S and 991 GT3 RS for track use I run the same wheels and tires: 19" and true track tires (Hoosiers 295 front and 345 rear) same size for both. Understeer reduction was one of the biggest gains in the 991TTS, there is less torque transfer to the front axle, and there is also RWS helping on the tight turns, the weight distribution massive shift helped as well compared to the 997 TT, and this is what sold me on the 991 Turbo S around 3 years ago. It handles a lot better.

Despite of being AWD, my 991 TTS is more tail happy and requires more finesse on corner exit than my 991 GT3 RS, again same wheels/tires for both, as to not compare tires but cars. My TTS has had improvements made as it still has a lot of potential that the GT3 RS doesn't have, I'm on my 4th suspension and have a 5th suspension kit ready to install but haven't for lack of commitment. On any racetrack, my lap times in the 991 TTS are better than the GT3RS, the one exception: Daytona where my TTS goes crazy on the electronics, cuts power, the brakes go limp, and I have to call it a day.

One thing all 997s have, much better steering feedback than 991s. Another draw back on the 997.2 Turbo S, it won't hold the gears in manual mode, it will downshift from 3rd to 2nd instead of holding 3rd on esses, it will also upshift at redline instead of bouncing the rev limiter (bad when you are about to get on the brakes).

Thank you for the extra clarification. That makes more sense.
So unless I ever get to the point where I can afford to track it a good bit, I'm good to go.
Even then, I'm not scared!! lol
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Old 10-19-2018, 10:08 PM
  #90  
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Originally Posted by rodsky View Post
OMG they couldn't be more different. After 1 week with the TT, I love it. Its an awesome DD. The seats are comfortable, its a little under the radar (although not completely as i still get some attention), the Burmester sound is stellar, everything works, its really fast, Torque is great for around town. I think i'm getting old, but i really think this is the ultimate daily and just a spectacular car. I could envision a road trip and you could devour miles in absolute comfort. But its also sporty enough to do canyons and have a blast. I was searching for a GT3 but am so glad that i changed to the TT. I know convertibles aren't for everyone but man o man - Porsche did a great job with this one. In So Cal, its a cool option. For some reason, i never wanted a TT. Now, I am wondering why i didn't do this sooner. Live and learn.

The Lambo - its a drive it at 6am car - canyons or track. The attention is too insane ( i dont like that), its so low, its so loud, the seats are so hard. My palms are sweaty when driving it and the adrenaline is certainly going. Its extremely quick and handles like nothing else. You absolutely cannot DD it . The V10 NA sound and response is top 3 for me. They did a great job on this thing. But its very focused on what it is and its not good at the things the TT is good at.

On balance, i will eventually tire of the Lambo. As amazing as it is, its uses are limited. When that happens and if i can continue to afford toys, i will keep the TT and get a 991.2 GT3 (perfect combo for me, i feel)..
thanks for the explanation, i figured as much, my neighbor has an aventador, but its so insanely loud. you should come drive canyons one of these weekends, a few of us got together last week and did, it was a lot of fun .
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