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-   -   am I missing something? (https://rennlist.com/forums/991-turbo/1079382-am-i-missing-something.html)

Georgemaser 07-07-2018 11:27 PM

am I missing something?
 
I am enjoying my 3 month old 2018 911 TurboS but I keep watching Utube videos from all these top car bloggers on how great the 2018 gt3 is. I am not a fan of the big spoiler but I went out to look at a 2000 mile PDK one in Florida for a possible trade. I thought the car was fine but I enjoy the huge torque of the TTS. Yes the exhaust note is better on the gt3 (I have a fab speed exhaust ordered) but other then that I am not sure what all the hype is. Am I missing something? I thought I was good until a pre-owmed chalk touring gt3 arrived at my local dealer. Here I go again!

pfbz 07-08-2018 12:29 AM

If you appreciate high revs and suspension tweaks that give it scalpel-like rwd handling, the GT3 starts to make sense. Or of you want manual transmission, which is once again available in the GT3.

The 991.2 Turbo S is more of a Katana sword on steroids than a scalpel? For street use, GT3 doesn't offer much over the Turbo S other than exclusivity.

Randyc151 07-08-2018 12:56 AM

It just depends on you. What speaks to your emotion more, articles or performance. Properly equipped and outfitted, no GT3 can run with a 991.2 TTS.

Mike Murphy 07-08-2018 02:43 AM

^^ The why do GTs win races and have the Nurburgring lap time records as opposed to Turbos?

hcvone 07-08-2018 07:05 AM

GT3 RS exhausts sings like nothing I ever heard, they are light and great on the track, but for the street as said a tts will crush a GT3 RS, have friends with them and spank them red light to red light.

Steve Cole 07-08-2018 09:25 AM


Originally Posted by murphyslaw1978 (Post 15127859)
^^ The why do GTs win races and have the Nurburgring lap time records as opposed to Turbos?

Because people try. That's mostly it.

As for winning races, there is no race class for the Turbo. But... that's not entirely true either, there are some unlimited classes and the TTS has been doing very well in them. Gulf Supercars (vs. GT3, GT2, Viper, 650LT and others) was being led by a TTS with stock aero and full interior. NZ / Aus GT Supercar was or is being dominated by a 997 Turbo.

If track work is what you want for the Turbo, and you care about lap times (if you're just lapping... why?!) then giving it a GT3 alignment, fitting some good GT3 sized tires (325R/265F) is all you need to absolutely sodomise a GT3 on most tracks. The more technical the track, the more likely you're going to lay down the pain, despite the TTS being heavier the GT3 won't make much of its downforce advantage until relatively high speeds. It doesn't stop there, though - racing suspension components are available for the TTS to make it corner better, as well as a DSC module to improve the active suspension response - but where the rubber really hits the road is that there is nothing much you can do to the GT3 to increase power, whereas it is very straightforward to get 800hp+ out of a 991 TTS without turning an engine bolt and the AWD system will put it to the ground.

So the answer really is.... what's your personal pleasure... the GT3 certainly handles more "sweetly" and that doesn't always translate to speed, but there are people who simply prefer the lighter handling. Does the sound of a screaming motor appeal to you long-term? The GT3 gives you that.

On the street, the GT3 gives you that wicked sound but it also gives you stiff suspension, low ride height, more road noise and it likes to follow road imperfections because of its alignment specs. As a weekend car it's probably great for many people. As a daily driver or as regular stop/go/turn on the street, the Turbo is superior.

Randyc151 07-08-2018 10:26 AM


Originally Posted by murphyslaw1978 (Post 15127859)
^^ The why do GTs win races and have the Nurburgring lap time records as opposed to Turbos?

Porsche runs the GT3 for times on Cup2, but runs the TTS on PZero. I'm not going to dive more into this answer, but people in the know all see that Porsche routinely handicaps the TTS on purpose when seeking lap times at the ring. On any normal weekend, on any track around the world, the TTS is going to be quicker than a standard GT3.

Mike Murphy 07-08-2018 11:57 AM


Originally Posted by Steve Cole (Post 15128035)
Because people try. That's mostly it.

As for winning races, there is no race class for the Turbo. But... that's not entirely true either, there are some unlimited classes and the TTS has been doing very well in them. Gulf Supercars (vs. GT3, GT2, Viper, 650LT and others) was being led by a TTS with stock aero and full interior. NZ / Aus GT Supercar was or is being dominated by a 997 Turbo.

If track work is what you want for the Turbo, and you care about lap times (if you're just lapping... why?!) then giving it a GT3 alignment, fitting some good GT3 sized tires (325R/265F) is all you need to absolutely sodomise a GT3 on most tracks. The more technical the track, the more likely you're going to lay down the pain, despite the TTS being heavier the GT3 won't make much of its downforce advantage until relatively high speeds. It doesn't stop there, though - racing suspension components are available for the TTS to make it corner better, as well as a DSC module to improve the active suspension response - but where the rubber really hits the road is that there is nothing much you can do to the GT3 to increase power, whereas it is very straightforward to get 800hp+ out of a 991 TTS without turning an engine bolt and the AWD system will put it to the ground.

So the answer really is.... what's your personal pleasure... the GT3 certainly handles more "sweetly" and that doesn't always translate to speed, but there are people who simply prefer the lighter handling. Does the sound of a screaming motor appeal to you long-term? The GT3 gives you that.

On the street, the GT3 gives you that wicked sound but it also gives you stiff suspension, low ride height, more road noise and it likes to follow road imperfections because of its alignment specs. As a weekend car it's probably great for many people. As a daily driver or as regular stop/go/turn on the street, the Turbo is superior.

I’ve always like the Turbo for best all around, do anything 911.

I’m surprised 800HP is doable that easily. Is it just a tune and boost with race fuel?

Mike Murphy 07-08-2018 11:58 AM


Originally Posted by Randyc151 (Post 15128114)
Porsche runs the GT3 for times on Cup2, but runs the TTS on PZero. I'm not going to dive more into this answer, but people in the know all see that Porsche routinely handicaps the TTS on purpose when seeking lap times at the ring. On any normal weekend, on any track around the world, the TTS is going to be quicker than a standard GT3.

Agree - huge difference in those two tires there.

rcg412 07-08-2018 12:22 PM


Originally Posted by Randyc151 (Post 15128114)
Porsche runs the GT3 for times on Cup2, but runs the TTS on PZero. I'm not going to dive more into this answer, but people in the know all see that Porsche routinely handicaps the TTS on purpose when seeking lap times at the ring. On any normal weekend, on any track around the world, the TTS is going to be quicker than a standard GT3.

fact...

Steve Cole 07-08-2018 02:55 PM


Originally Posted by murphyslaw1978 (Post 15128233)
I’m surprised 800HP is doable that easily. Is it just a tune and boost with race fuel?

Not quite. With stock turbos you can reach 800hp with race fuel, but with upgraded turbos you can reach it on 93 octane (though most of us would add a bit of race fuel or octane boost just for safety).

With the upgraded turbos there are two tuners that I know of getting 725whp+ on pump fuel which is well over 800hp crank. Meth injection is a good idea on a circuit, just for safety's sake on these turbo builds, unless you are going to run a higher octane fuel or at least octane boost. It's unlikely to hurt your engine but most of us want a really wide margin of safety for our investment, as the cost is not significant.

I believe that a "Stage IV" 991.2 kit is generally in the 700-725whp range without meth right now. That's conservative, pump-fuel tunes. Mathematically that's over 800hp either way.

nolimits 07-08-2018 02:57 PM


Originally Posted by Steve Cole (Post 15128035)
Because people try. That's mostly it.

As for winning races, there is no race class for the Turbo. But... that's not entirely true either, there are some unlimited classes and the TTS has been doing very well in them. Gulf Supercars (vs. GT3, GT2, Viper, 650LT and others) was being led by a TTS with stock aero and full interior. NZ / Aus GT Supercar was or is being dominated by a 997 Turbo.

If track work is what you want for the Turbo, and you care about lap times (if you're just lapping... why?!) then giving it a GT3 alignment, fitting some good GT3 sized tires (325R/265F) is all you need to absolutely sodomise a GT3 on most tracks. The more technical the track, the more likely you're going to lay down the pain, despite the TTS being heavier the GT3 won't make much of its downforce advantage until relatively high speeds. It doesn't stop there, though - racing suspension components are available for the TTS to make it corner better, as well as a DSC module to improve the active suspension response - but where the rubber really hits the road is that there is nothing much you can do to the GT3 to increase power, whereas it is very straightforward to get 800hp+ out of a 991 TTS without turning an engine bolt and the AWD system will put it to the ground.

So the answer really is.... what's your personal pleasure... the GT3 certainly handles more "sweetly" and that doesn't always translate to speed, but there are people who simply prefer the lighter handling. Does the sound of a screaming motor appeal to you long-term? The GT3 gives you that.

On the street, the GT3 gives you that wicked sound but it also gives you stiff suspension, low ride height, more road noise and it likes to follow road imperfections because of its alignment specs. As a weekend car it's probably great for many people. As a daily driver or as regular stop/go/turn on the street, the Turbo is superior.

Spot on in every aspect ! Especially the ability to mod and blow away most of what's out there on track. Also the GTs are marketed for, and targeting track purposes. Highlighting what a TTS can do vs GTs in their product line is not Porsches target or strategy. FI vs NA is usually more effective in power/weight ratio. Agree the GT sounds and feel are great, but look at F1 now with half the cylinders of earlier days, turbos, and ERS, setting new track records this season. Yes specs have changed, larger tires to say the least, but still getting a lot out of the power plants. I do miss the 12s though.

TeesTurboS 07-08-2018 03:01 PM

As far as modding the Turbo S, check out this video of a 991.2 GT2RS chasing a modded Turbo S on the 'Ring. Pretty impressive for the Turbo S!


Mike Murphy 07-08-2018 05:21 PM


Originally Posted by Steve Cole (Post 15128489)
Not quite. With stock turbos you can reach 800hp with race fuel, but with upgraded turbos you can reach it on 93 octane (though most of us would add a bit of race fuel or octane boost just for safety).

With the upgraded turbos there are two tuners that I know of getting 725whp+ on pump fuel which is well over 800hp crank. Meth injection is a good idea on a circuit, just for safety's sake on these turbo builds, unless you are going to run a higher octane fuel or at least octane boost. It's unlikely to hurt your engine but most of us want a really wide margin of safety for our investment, as the cost is not significant.

I believe that a "Stage IV" 991.2 kit is generally in the 700-725whp range without meth right now. That's conservative, pump-fuel tunes. Mathematically that's over 800hp either way.

Impressive. I didn’t know the bottom end and trans could take that much torque and power. Very well built it seems.

Big Swole 07-08-2018 06:04 PM

To the OP, TTS All day long!

I love the power of a turbo car.

Not saying I wouldn't love to own a GT car, but for basic road use and spirited drives, as well as an amazing track too, I'll take a TTS for sure.


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