Trade in 991.2 TTS for GT3?
01-09-2018, 09:21 AM
#16
Pro
I might give Randy's idea a thought and swap out to TrofeoR's on the TTS. Part of my issue at the track with the TTS was the how poor the tire was relative to the braking, cornering and transition abilities of the car. I couldn't threshold brake and I was sliding all over the place. The suspension feels very sloppy but I dont think that's anything tires can fix. But I really should swap tires and maybe try again.
01-09-2018, 09:53 AM
#17
Racer
Surprised to hear you say any of that, I had my Turbo S at the track several times this year and even with the P-Zeros my car rarely slid much at all. You drive to the edge of the tires and not over it. I'd say that I had almost as much grip as my old race car in the early 2000s had on DOT racing tires and the chassis worked very well with it, plenty of mechanical grip and allowed me to use tremendous amounts of the car's power. People were commenting that watching me on the track in the TTS looked entirely different than every other car on the track, carrying speed that was visibly huge compared to the rest of them (~25 cars per session), which is exactly how it looked from the seat. If the car is sliding or feels sloppy, you're not driving smoothly enough.
That said, I did run into the traction control even in "reduced" stability mode a few times on the hairpin. I was trying to rotate the car with throttle application and near put me into the fence when the traction control came in and cut all power. It appears to let the car spin briefly and then comes in aggressively after a period of time.
Remember, my car is also the one that ran a 135.99 trap speed in the 1/4 mile. It's no slouch.
(full disclosure: I've raced in three One Lap of Americas with good results, raced cars for years and regularly podium in the superbike races i enter, so I do drive to a fairly high level)
That said, I did run into the traction control even in "reduced" stability mode a few times on the hairpin. I was trying to rotate the car with throttle application and near put me into the fence when the traction control came in and cut all power. It appears to let the car spin briefly and then comes in aggressively after a period of time.
Remember, my car is also the one that ran a 135.99 trap speed in the 1/4 mile. It's no slouch.
(full disclosure: I've raced in three One Lap of Americas with good results, raced cars for years and regularly podium in the superbike races i enter, so I do drive to a fairly high level)
01-09-2018, 10:43 AM
#18
Pro
Originally Posted by Steve Cole
Surprised to hear you say any of that, I had my Turbo S at the track several times this year and even with the P-Zeros my car rarely slid much at all. You drive to the edge of the tires and not over it. I'd say that I had almost as much grip as my old race car in the early 2000s had on DOT racing tires and the chassis worked very well with it, plenty of mechanical grip and allowed me to use tremendous amounts of the car's power. People were commenting that watching me on the track in the TTS looked entirely different than every other car on the track, carrying speed that was visibly huge compared to the rest of them (~25 cars per session), which is exactly how it looked from the seat. If the car is sliding or feels sloppy, you're not driving smoothly enough.
That said, I did run into the traction control even in "reduced" stability mode a few times on the hairpin. I was trying to rotate the car with throttle application and near put me into the fence when the traction control came in and cut all power. It appears to let the car spin briefly and then comes in aggressively after a period of time.
Remember, my car is also the one that ran a 135.99 trap speed in the 1/4 mile. It's no slouch.
(full disclosure: I've raced in three One Lap of Americas with good results, raced cars for years and regularly podium in the superbike races i enter, so I do drive to a fairly high level)
That said, I did run into the traction control even in "reduced" stability mode a few times on the hairpin. I was trying to rotate the car with throttle application and near put me into the fence when the traction control came in and cut all power. It appears to let the car spin briefly and then comes in aggressively after a period of time.
Remember, my car is also the one that ran a 135.99 trap speed in the 1/4 mile. It's no slouch.
(full disclosure: I've raced in three One Lap of Americas with good results, raced cars for years and regularly podium in the superbike races i enter, so I do drive to a fairly high level)
01-09-2018, 12:43 PM
#19
Racer
Power isn't really an issue, you just adjust your application points and braking points. Tire quality? Yeah, but like I said, you find out where the limits are and you drive within them. I've been an instructor as well, and I really doubt that your car is more alarming to drive than something like the 850hp, 2300lb supercharged Cobra replica I did a day in... with no traction control, no ABS, no power brakes, a lap belt, vintage seats and no power steering. 
It's all about managing the tires, chassis and motor of the car you're in... Though I have to admit that locking the brakes up on a Super 7 is pretty easy and will grab your attention when suddenly you can see stationary tire treads.
It's all about managing the tires, chassis and motor of the car you're in... Though I have to admit that locking the brakes up on a Super 7 is pretty easy and will grab your attention when suddenly you can see stationary tire treads.
01-09-2018, 01:16 PM
#20
Pro
Originally Posted by Steve Cole
Power isn't really an issue, you just adjust your application points and braking points. Tire quality? Yeah, but like I said, you find out where the limits are and you drive within them. I've been an instructor as well, and I really doubt that your car is more alarming to drive than something like the 850hp, 2300lb supercharged Cobra replica I did a day in... with no traction control, no ABS, no power brakes, a lap belt, vintage seats and no power steering. It's all about managing the tires, chassis and motor of the car you're in... Though I have to admit that locking the brakes up on a Super 7 is pretty easy and will grab your attention when suddenly you can see stationary tire treads.
It's all about managing the tires, chassis and motor of the car you're in... Though I have to admit that locking the brakes up on a Super 7 is pretty easy and will grab your attention when suddenly you can see stationary tire treads.
01-09-2018, 04:52 PM
#21
Racer
You're absolutely right. I had a lot of fun in a Cayman GTS this fall, though it felt really slow compared to my TTS. Your GT3 will be a fantastic track car for sure, and it will teach you plenty over time... even the pros learn something new every time they are out on track, it's just the right car for that.
Your GT3 will be a fantastic track car for sure, and it will teach you plenty over time... even the pros learn something new every time they are out on track, it's just the right car for that.
01-09-2018, 07:09 PM
#22
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01-09-2018, 07:12 PM
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It amuses me that you think of it as a downgrade.
I've always thought of the TTS as the one you get when you walk in and say "Give me your most expensive!"
That's not to say it isn't brilliant and wouldn't still be the one you'd buy if you actually knew the entire model line and why you might pick one over the other. It's just that I expect most of the buyers don't. They just get the most expensive one because that's how they roll.
The GT3 is, by all accounts, the pinnacle of what it's designed to be. It is the very best of it's kind. Then again... it's becoming the only one of it's kind, but that's a different discussion. It's not a downgrade. It's just the best of a different thing.
As for which one is best for you... I don't really have any advice there.
If you don't think of yourself as a particularly involved driver but just love the punch in the back that an uber-powerful car gives when you put the pedal down, the TTS is probably the better choice. It's more luxurious, more comfortable, more powerful, and has all the prestige you could want.
The GT3 is raw and noisy and RWD and available in a manual and revs to 9k rpm and sticks like glue on a racetrack. If you're going to push a car to the edge of it's capabilities, I think it will be more fun to do that with a GT3.
I've always thought of the TTS as the one you get when you walk in and say "Give me your most expensive!"
That's not to say it isn't brilliant and wouldn't still be the one you'd buy if you actually knew the entire model line and why you might pick one over the other. It's just that I expect most of the buyers don't. They just get the most expensive one because that's how they roll.
The GT3 is, by all accounts, the pinnacle of what it's designed to be. It is the very best of it's kind. Then again... it's becoming the only one of it's kind, but that's a different discussion. It's not a downgrade. It's just the best of a different thing.
As for which one is best for you... I don't really have any advice there.
If you don't think of yourself as a particularly involved driver but just love the punch in the back that an uber-powerful car gives when you put the pedal down, the TTS is probably the better choice. It's more luxurious, more comfortable, more powerful, and has all the prestige you could want.
The GT3 is raw and noisy and RWD and available in a manual and revs to 9k rpm and sticks like glue on a racetrack. If you're going to push a car to the edge of it's capabilities, I think it will be more fun to do that with a GT3.
01-09-2018, 07:13 PM
#24
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Follow your heart on this decision. However, any car can be driven to the edge of it's capabilities, and approaching a turn 15mph faster in a TTS brings it's own challenges and thrills, too. Throw a Sharkwerks exhaust and Cup2 tires on your TTS and see if it adds back the visceral experience that you are possibly missing, but don't for a second listen to anybody that says the GT3 is a more enjoyable car - they are just not driving fast enough in a TTS!
01-09-2018, 07:16 PM
#25
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Having owned two 991.1 GT3's and a 991GT3RS (which I traded for a .2TTS), I can say that I'm enjoying .2TTS just as much if not more. Yes the exhaust note is not nearly as exhilarating, but the performance of the car is just as good. I'm getting the full Kline exhaust setup to improve the sound.
The TTS comes setup to understeer from the factory vs. the RS (smaller front tire and massive difference in air pressure front vs. rear) so you have the drive the TTS differently (trail braking for example) but there's no comparison when accelerating out of a corner and overall straight line speed. Sticker tires, more pressure up front and a bigger tire footprint and a .2TTS will kill a .1RS. BTW, I've also owned a .1TTS and like the .2GT3, the .2TTS is a better car than the .1TTS.
At the end of the day, I don't miss my RS. But like others have said, it comes down to what you want. The RS is more of an "experience" to drive (sound, look etc.) but the .2TTS is just as much fun to drive IMO.
BC
The TTS comes setup to understeer from the factory vs. the RS (smaller front tire and massive difference in air pressure front vs. rear) so you have the drive the TTS differently (trail braking for example) but there's no comparison when accelerating out of a corner and overall straight line speed. Sticker tires, more pressure up front and a bigger tire footprint and a .2TTS will kill a .1RS. BTW, I've also owned a .1TTS and like the .2GT3, the .2TTS is a better car than the .1TTS.
At the end of the day, I don't miss my RS. But like others have said, it comes down to what you want. The RS is more of an "experience" to drive (sound, look etc.) but the .2TTS is just as much fun to drive IMO.
BC
01-09-2018, 07:18 PM
#26
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I agree wholeheartedly. Follow your heart. FWIW I feel conflicted too, I think in a different, but good way. Since 2010 I have had 3 GT3's. A 10 GT3, 11, GT3RS, and most recently a 2015 GT3. Bought the 991.2 Turbo, non S, after a test drive at my dealership. It is/was to be a placeholder until my 991.2 GT3 allocation comes due. I have to say after 3000 miles of ownership the Turbo is a special car. I purposely did not get an S because I like to track and didn't want ceramics and a bunch of extra things that I didn't need or would spend extra to replace, i.e. steel brakes in lieu of ceramics. The 40hp difference was a non issue. 540hp is still a bunch! I am a PCA Instructor, and have tracked for years and have had 10 different Porsches during that time so I have a pretty good frame of reference. Bottom line the 17/18 Turbo is special! A truly amazing car. Now to be honest I made a couple of minor mods. Immediately replaced the tires with Cup 2s, and lowered with GMG progressive lowering springs, SRF brake fluid, and Ferodo DS1.11 brake pads. Oh, and also put in my GT2 seat and BBI roll bar that has now been in several cars. Boy, they were sure a good purchase! Even before I replaced my b/pads I beat my best time at Sebring by 4/10s in my first outing. As Randy says you will approach turns a whole hell of a lot faster. At Sebring I can walk away from my buddies 15 GT3 from 16 - 17. Brakes are an issue though because my approach to 17 is almost 10 mph faster than in the 3. I went through the stock pads during that first weekend. The new Ferodos should make a big difference. Anyway, I understand your dilemma. Don't for a minute underestimate the new Turbo's', or for a minute apologize for your decision. My problem is that I am so fascinated with my new Turbo that when my dealer called me recently regarding an available allocation for a 991.2 GT3, I told him to kick me back and give someone else the option. I'm not yet done with getting to know this car! So.... my problem is that I feel guilty about not wanting to get the new GT3 when I have the opportunity. Anyway, in case you haven't figured it out. I love my Turbo! Enjoy yours!
01-09-2018, 07:20 PM
#27
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If cost is not a factor (GT3 has lower depreciation cost), then I would take the TTS over GT3. The TTS is simply a better car. It's fast, comfortable, engaging, drivable, and is easy to extract performance as an amateur driver, plus it has normal tires so you can drive it in the rain, and its less likely to get you killed.
The GT3 brings lot of noise and drama, which is great for an occasional track session. But as a street car it can't hold a candle to the TTS.
The GT3 brings lot of noise and drama, which is great for an occasional track session. But as a street car it can't hold a candle to the TTS.
01-09-2018, 07:22 PM
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I have both a 991 GT3 and 991 TTS. They are two very, very different cars and have a different purpose. They both drive so differently too. The TTS can easily be driven everyday where the GT3 can too although it does get a little tiring with the noises and harsher ride. The GT3 gets way more thumbs up. Most people don't even notice the TTS, which is fine with me. I track quite a bit as well but have never tracked the Turbo. The GT3 is phenomenal on the track. It makes mere mortals feel like a rockstar! Also, I love the sound of a NA engine at 8,500 RPM. There is nothing quite like it. I don;t know where you live but if you are near Chicago feel free to PM me when the weather turns warm. You can drive both cars back to back and see for yourself.
01-09-2018, 07:22 PM
#29
Burning Brakes
I just got my 2017 TTS less than a year now and absolutely love it.
However lately I've been having the itch to go to a GT3 as at heart I'm a purist and love NA motors and would like a stick shift. Problem is part of me feels that would it be a downgrade? I mean the price difference alone makes me think that. Another thing is that I initially bought the TTS as a daily but I barely drive it once a week and feel the GT3 would be a better switch if I'm just going to do weekend driving.
Anyone here have both or made a similar switch that can give me some feedback?
However lately I've been having the itch to go to a GT3 as at heart I'm a purist and love NA motors and would like a stick shift. Problem is part of me feels that would it be a downgrade? I mean the price difference alone makes me think that. Another thing is that I initially bought the TTS as a daily but I barely drive it once a week and feel the GT3 would be a better switch if I'm just going to do weekend driving.
Anyone here have both or made a similar switch that can give me some feedback?
and scheming to buy it back "someday". So save yourself some money and time by just keeping the TTS, finding a place to keep it and buying a GT3-1, which is a great buy these days.
That was my solution. Can be yours too. You are obviously conflicted. Life is short! Save yourself a sacrifice that you may regret and follow your heart. Nothing but smiles will follow.
01-09-2018, 07:23 PM
#30
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Honestly, if all you do is weekend driving, want a NA motor and a manual transmission, why not look at a 991.1 Carrera GTS? It's got more than enough power and is a blast to drive! While the GT3 can be a weekend warrior, it is in its element driven above 5.5K rpm which you'll struggle to maintain on the street. I've had a TTS (997.2) and. currently have a GT3...i preferred the TTS on the street, on the track however the GT3 rules. I find that the most I drive my GT3 on the street, is to the track!