Dundon Finger Follower Wear/Cam Wear Fix Update, and Engine Health Monitoring Intro
#61
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#62
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Thanks Jamie. I am just thinking about this from a strategy point of view. I imagine there will be baseline numbers so we can determine how much damage may have occurred before using the logger. If this data could be used to initiate a compression test, which then shows something is going on, it would be valuable in getting whatever work needs to be done under warranty.
The finger follower/cam wear parts are still being finished and then we'll fit to my car documenting the entire process. If we can get it together in time I may try to bring the car to the smokies event.
I found this photo, which appears to confirm my thoughts on the oil sprayer. Note how the far side does not have the brass fittings near the valves, while the near side does. Assuming those are the oil sprayers, my first question would be "why did Porsche not have oil sprayers on the intake side from day one?"
My second question is "why didn't they add this to future head versions once the problem was known?"
Is there a problem introducing oil to the intake side like they do the exhaust side?
My second question is "why didn't they add this to future head versions once the problem was known?"
Is there a problem introducing oil to the intake side like they do the exhaust side?
I believe both intake and exhaust have been effected, I'll have to check the pictures I have...
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Dundon Motorsports
Gig Harbor, WA
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jamie@dundonmotorsports.com
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Dundon Motorsports
Gig Harbor, WA
253-200-4454
jamie@dundonmotorsports.com
www.dundonmotorsports.com
Facebook.com/dundonmotorsports
Instagram @dundon_motorsports
#63
Race Director
Awesome Jamie. Thanks for the additional clarifications.
#64
Race Director
This was posted by Chris3963. The two on the right are from the intake side.
#65
Race Director
Here's another photo from another poster. Note the photo of the damaged side is marked "intake."
#66
Technical Guru
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The first use of the logger will be for crank case pressure (vacuum) monitoring to log the health of the 991 GT3/RS engines. As the cam/finger followers wear, the metal debris is circulated through the engine and piston ring/cylinder seal will be compromised far earlier than when the car throws a misfire code.
#67
Curious if you've read the Bosch Motronic MED 17.1 technical manuals? And wondering if you could just extract the per cylinder roughness values and misfire counters prior to any CEL? Those should start showing statistically relevant deviations long before the crankcase pressure changes? The duration of ignition should start skewing almost immediately if the coating is wearing away?
From what I have been told, this is not so much a warning if the followers are wearing, but the condition of the engine due to the follower problem, either before or after the warranty ends.
Regardless of what data is recorded, its thought that Porsche will do nothing until the CEL light comes on. Then it seems they only replace the Cylinder head and Valve train parts. All of that trash is still in the engine. Some trash would have or could have damaged the Rings and bearings etc., and some will be removed with the oil change. Some may be trapped in the engine. This is fine metallic dust that can block oil galleys, wear away the ring seal, score the Piston skirts and cylinder walls, and sandwich itself between the Crankshaft journals and the bearings.
Hopefully nothing is damaged, but in the event that some internal part may have, if the engine was to fail after the warranty period ends the owner has some fall back data to use in demanding an engine rebuild on Porsche.
Presently, you have nothing to show the damage was caused and happening during the warranty period.
Simple and cheap insurance on an expensive engine.
#68
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Curious if you've read the Bosch Motronic MED 17.1 technical manuals? And wondering if you could just extract the per cylinder roughness values and misfire counters prior to any CEL? Those should start showing statistically relevant deviations long before the crankcase pressure changes? The duration of ignition should start skewing almost immediately if the coating is wearing away?
#69
Dundon fix
Jaime,
Does your fix alter the 9000k redline in any way? Where will the hotter cams
impact the power curve? Do you have any installation partners in the San Diego area? Very interested based the on going testing results. Thanks.
Does your fix alter the 9000k redline in any way? Where will the hotter cams
impact the power curve? Do you have any installation partners in the San Diego area? Very interested based the on going testing results. Thanks.
#70
Jamie
I asked the guys that do my oil analysis if they could detect ceramic in the oil and they said no. Not sure if Blackstone can read it. I have had all of my oil analyzed since new so I have a track record. Just wish ceramic particles were on the list.
I asked the guys that do my oil analysis if they could detect ceramic in the oil and they said no. Not sure if Blackstone can read it. I have had all of my oil analyzed since new so I have a track record. Just wish ceramic particles were on the list.
#71
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It's hard to see silicon carbide in a sea of silicon and carbon. This is why we wanted to get something together that gives additional data points.
#72
Hi Fred, this is going to be some machine work in the head required, a pretty involved install, (timing cam shafts, inspecting the rest of the engine for wear etc...). In the short term will be North America only for testing, but we have friendly shops around the world that are competent to do this work and we'll be working with them!
Understood on the machining. Hopefully we would be able to pick up on the monitoring system before then though.
Thanks
Fred
#73
Jamie
Is it possible to easily remove the valve cover and see the wear on the followers. What is involved in an inspection to see how much wear we have. Do you have an estimate on labor time. Thx
Is it possible to easily remove the valve cover and see the wear on the followers. What is involved in an inspection to see how much wear we have. Do you have an estimate on labor time. Thx
#74
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We should be able to see it coming by monitoring the crank case pressure and the cylinder roughness/misfire counts as suggested. I just got the traces done and we're working on adding them early next week.
It is, it's a bit tricky, I'll ask Charles what his thoughts on other shops doing it and time estimates on it.
#75
All sounds good, although we are at cross purposes, I meant hopefully in the UK we could pick up on the monitoring hardware too.
Regards
Fred