Dr. G

If the manual is anything like the one in my Spyder, I'll be checking that box without a doubt.

I'll probably check the box even if it's not like the Spyder

Chris3963

I have conflicting information. Dealers in Europe were given production information for 991.2 GT3 two weeks ago. 4.0litre engine, production starts 05/17, manual limited to max 40% of production. They even have early pricing.

rosenbergendo

US dealers told 3.8 only. Specifically asked higher ups at meeting on 4 separate occasions. Also they would not confirm NA in next RS.

MEM82

Interesting that manual is back on for the RS.

signes

I don't see them putting the 4.0 in the GT3, especially with a manual. Apart from a few lighter bits not much would separate it from the R (assuming they pull a bit more power out of the 3.8). Next RS will be GT2RS...

Macca

Rosenbergendo has a pretty good track record with this stuff. A 3.8 would surprise me quite frankly. There is no doubt power and torque thats been left on the table last time (just refer to Dunson Motorsports work with the ECU and their race headers to see that PAG have tuned that car for emissions and put torque limiters in place hence it makes no more torque than a base 911S engine). The 9000 rpm rev limit would be key to maximizing any performance increase from that engine on the track I should think (assumes bump in power and torque and their peaks). The questions is do they have the ***** for another 9000 rpm screamer? Obviously they have some confidence after the "9A1" race programs early success that they can make the engine reliable to those max rpms but their move to the 4.0L in RS & R to align with the race engine has me thinking they would be better off moving to that platform with the reduced limiter for warranty's sake.

Right now if I am navel gazing I would side with Spencer. The next RS could well be boosted. I dont see a MT in an RS but I do as an option from popular demand for the GT3. The RS needs to be the quickest car on the track. With the aftermarket building up products for the 991.1 , folks getting the hand of the platform and others offering 45-55hp/23 lbft bumps through headers and ECU the 991.1 GT3/RS otherwise stands the chance of embarrassing its newer breatheren on the track! My gut feel is we could see the RS be a GT2RS PDK only and the GT3 with 4.0L NA MT+PDK. PAG are already running the GT3/RS engine at 123 bhp/L how much more do we think they can get in just a few years and constrained by emissions regs? 128 bhp/L is my best bet which would put a 4.0L engine in the 515 bhp ball park and line ball it (actually more!) with the best of the outgoing Ferrari NA engines. That would make a cat Euro 6 cert 3.8 around 490 bhp...

I agree March 2017 Geneva unveil for 991.2 GT3 tho.

Macca

This is a good point by the way. PAG are these days as much constrained by the Marketing Men as by the Engineers. However once the 911R is built and sold all bets are off from my experience. The argument being that the 911R is a LE car that simply is showcasing the future...

Drifting

Agree that rosenberg has had a good record in the past but I don't think so here. No offense of course. I believe europe dealers info from two weeks ago much more than anything else.

Chris 3963- Any ideas why manual limited to max 40% of production? Wouldn't they just make what people order?

Chris 3963- Can you tell us what is the early pricing on the 991.2 GT3?

Macca,

I could see them holding back the HP, but do you really think they specifically held back the torque of the GT3 to match a regular 911? I don't see why. The GT3 is supposed to be a much more special car than a C2S.

Agree that Porsche will use the 4.0L engine in the .2 GT3 for one simple reason $$$$$$$$$$$
Porsche has spent way too much money replacing 991 GT3 engines, and they would rightfully worry about future engines they have to pay to replace if they keep the same engine in the .2 GT3.
The only way they can keep face is to put the RS engine in the GT3 as part of improving the next generation of GT3s.

Second $$$ reason is that Porsche is itching to make more money on both GT cars after seeing the crazy worldwide demand and realizing they underpriced both cars. Putting a 4.0L engine in the .2 GT3 is an easy excuse to charge 150K for the .2 GT3 compared to 130K for the .1 GT3

Third- Porsche just spent the development money on a manual 4.OL GT3 by developing the 911R, so why wouldn't they put the same engine/transmission in the .2 GT3? It saves them money......
Any arguments about disturbing 911R owners are way off base. The 911R cars will appreciate anyway. Porsche should rightfully be concerned about all those who were pissed they couldn't get a 911R. And a manual .2 GT3 with the same 4.0L engine will soothe those drivers nicely.

All this talk about a turbocharged RS is fascinating and possibly true. Porsche needs to keep making NA GT3s with a manual option for true track rats, and NA/manual driving purists.

However all the other exotic companies are going to turbos for their elite cars, the vast majority of which aren't tracked that often, but need big numbers to compare to other cars, fast "ring" laps, and 0-60 times for bragging rights. Expect the RS to stay PDK-s only for that reason and because all of APs comments have suggested this as well.

Also as macca mentioned, more of Porsches race cars will likely be going turbo and regularly making a turbo RS track car as the Porsche halo car in this new turbocharged world of ours does make sense the more I hear it.

Whoopsy

991.2 GT3 will be the Geneva 2017 show car

Modified 4.0L engine from the GT3R race car. (current GT3's engine is gen 1, current RS's engine is gen 1.5, the GT3R race engine is gen 2, and the next GT3's 4.0L engine is gen 2.5)

Manual is an option.

Drifting

sounds good to me.

gen 2.5 should be reliable

Chris3963

Manual limited to 40% of production due to supply constraints and the reality that pretty much only buyers in the USA are manual zealots. (On a side note, I had dinner in Leipzig last week with a bunch of Porsche owners. At the table were 5 Americans and 6 Germans. Only the 3 of the American were manual fanatics. The rest were PDK converts. That's a real world reflection of the true global demand for manual boxes).

Price in Europe, inc taxes, 160,000 euro.

Drifting

Chris,
good point about the US manual zealots. I'm sure the GT3 manual uptake will be quite modest outside of the US. Personally I'm happy that Porsche will be offering the manual option on the next GT3 for my manual only buddies, but PDK-S has converted me. I'll be ordering my .2 GT3 with PDK-S.

Can you tell me what is the current price of the 991.1 GT3 in europe (including taxes) to compare to the 160,000 (with taxes) euro price you quoted for the 991.2 GT3?

From previous discussions it doesn't seem the direct euro to dollar conversion really works for Porsche prices so i'm not sure how much more is 160,000 euro for the .2 GT3 over the current euro price of a new 2016 991.1 GT3?

Thanks for your thoughts and information.

Desert_dude

This is the biggest German Used Cars Page

http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/se...AGE_UNREPAIRED

fxz

Was 134.000 Euro with taxes, that is 30k USD more


30kUSD more for just a 3.8L MA175 G/J engine looks as an high jump
unless there s more than that ....

one or the other a GT2 engine or the 911R engine both offered with the 911R manual gaerbox

but the latter would make any "over MSRP" 911R and 991.1RS owner very nervous...

usctrojanGT3

Sounds good to me and makes me a buyer.