Macca

Levd. I believe one of the options in the bulletin is a total head replacement (cam tower). this includes cams and rocker fingers. This replacement head from PAG will be of the new design and carry additional/modified oil galleries/spray bars. The existing (E/F) oil pump is a four stage device controlled by the ECU. With a software flash it can be made to increase its pressure in various conditions. the uprated oil pump fitted to the MA175 G engines and the MA176 engines (RS) is of higher duty cycle (can push higher volumes for longer well within tolerance etc) but essentially the outcome is the same. Working logically through this an E engine with a new design replacement head, cams and rocker fingers with the possible need for a ECU software flash should be able to operate as effectively as a G engine. I would imagine PAG have recognised they cannot ship replacement engines for every client unless there is evidence of materials having entered the engine and possibly scored the cylinders or caused other damage. Early affected cars like mine and FastLanes received full new G units for rocker wear (fairly minor in my case), however I believe PAG have quickly come to realize since Jan that this is 100% probability event (i.e. all E & F engines will at some time in the future require attention. This has been my consistent view since the issues started surfacing from Nov 2014). Lubrication is the issue here....

<3mph

Thanks for the detailed information and I am not surprised to hear you say the above. I take it you also believe PAG will stand behind the engine, even out of warranty, for these issues. Macca, I really appreciate all the work you've done to inform us.

meaker

This is what they did with my engine except they ended up changing the pump to the newer pump.

levd

Thank you, Macca!

So there's a chance engine will be virtually as reliable after rebuild as G unit. Good to know.

robmypro

That seems to be protocol, Chris. Unless they see damage like Macca mentioned, it's new heads, new oil pump and ECU flash. And I am fine with this. No need for a new engine if top end swap fixes the issue.

levd

BTW, do rebuilt engines require a break-in?

carz80am

PCNA and dealer both told me no. I ripped it on the way out of the dealership and haven't let up since. I'm very tough on my cars. Got over 1500 miles so far and no issues...

Macca

Gents. I have no doubt that a remedy involving the complete replacement heads would be as effective as a G engine transplant.

If this was an option I was offered and understood at the time it may have well been the direction I would have gone as I would liked to have preserved my engine/chassis "matching numbers".

The up rated oil pump would be a nice to have but quite honestly is probably not critical to the function of the engine. My observation as with others is that the ECU update for 2016 cars increased the mid range pressure by around 10-15%. I would imagine this is within the duty cycle headroom of the original E pumps....

As for my views on warranty and support of E/F engine owners now and in the medium and long term future - my personal view is 100% WE WILL BE LOOKED AFTER - the issues are known, they are related to design and this is a brand halo car, they won't wish to create a bad reputation on the back of these issues. The cost of this project to PAG has not been insignificant, but the lessons learned for their racing program invaluable and compared to DieselGate this is a drop in the ocean....

I know the uncertainty for many is hard. I'm choosing to keep this car for many more years and abuse it on track. It's so good that I forgive it's transgressions, happy for PAG to cover the top end work on my track car moving forward and I'm addicted to this high revving unit - a rev limit I don't think we will see again in a road going Porsche 911....I love driving this car!

R.Deacon

^^^Macca
as always THANKS FOR ALL YOUR SHARED KNOWLEDGABLE CONTRIBUTIONS TO THIS CAR'S ON GOING AND EVER EVOLVLING ENGINE ISSUES

Will miss meeting up , You two Enjoy your trip . Spence can give you some detail on my absence .

Just in time

Macca, fully agree with you that 100% of all E&F motors will at some point in time require action. The question is how soon. I don't track so I would expect my engine to go on longer. That said however, I hope that PAG will not only see this as a short term issue but as a long term one.

Macca

Hey Raymond, no problem at all, hopefully we may alternatively see you "down under" one day :-)

Levd, I wouldn't think a break in is required unless piston/rings or liners have been changed which iIdont understand to be the case here - so once fitted you can bring up to temperature and start using as intended. my advice would be to run the first tank through with varying rpms probably not exceeding 7500 - just to let the valve springs to seat and everything to heat cycle over a few times before giving it death to 9000. I really cant see a downside with an updated head of the modified design...

levd

Macca, thank you again! Your comments are highly appreciated.

FastLaneTurbo

Deacon,
We will miss you also. Macca arrived in LAX from New Zealand on June 2nd with his lovely wife and will be in the USA for almost a month. He is covering an amazing number of America's most interesting Sites, from the West Coast to Florida's Space Coast and as far South as Florida's Keys. This will include a week
at our Home in the Spruce Creek Fly-In near Daytona Beach with my local Porsche Buddies. We will also be on the Track at Sebring participating in HPDE's with Chin Motorsports 6/18 and Performance Driving Group on 6/19.

Hopefully Macca will post a Photo Recap of the interesting places and faces he encounters in the land of "The Left Hookers" in an extensive post on Rennlist.
Guaranteed to be a fascinating read for all of us.

TRAKCAR

^^ Cool, hit me up for a get together. I'll be back from last leg ED Germany on the 18th.
I'll be groggy but maybe I can meet de 19th.

Macca

Peter, would love to meet you at Sebring on the 19th if you are up for it. See how you feel after your long haul flight...

Thanks kindly Spencer (Captn MY Captn) for the US trip intro. I will certainly start a thread on our trip very shortly. Suffice to say it's a bit whirlwind!! Lunchtime finds us in the home of historic Route 66 (we have been visiting snippets of the old 66 main road America in Cali, Nevada and now Arizona on this trip), in Seligman AZ. Cute town, perfect weather....

I must say the standout experience of this trip was not Sin City nor the Hoover Dam (awesome though it is), nor firing military weapons at a range, visiting the Red canyon and Grand Canyon, driving 1000 miles of interstate.....but actually the HUGE friendliness and hospitality of the American People.Jo and I have been amazed how lovely and helpful everyone has been. This is far from our first USA trip but it seems even more prevalent this time. Having s New Zealand accent and looking like a lost foreigner probably helps I guess ;-).Your country has some great places and great people. We have loved everything so far and the best is still to come...

Anyway, sorry to digress from the oily conversation....ill start a separate post soon....