Real life pic of why you need front lift!
11-19-2014, 02:38 PM
#46
Three Wheelin'
Apologies if these are redundant for some, but others here may have not seen these pics that I posted a couple of months ago of my own driveway. Not all that steep just looking at it, but without the lift a LOT of jockeying is required to get up with only minor scraping. With the lift, no contact, no problem....the debate DOES live on. 
11-19-2014, 02:47 PM
#47
11-19-2014, 03:11 PM
#48
Race Director
Not to throw this off topic too much, but has anyone that has already taken delivery of the car experienced any mechanical issues with the lift (I recall reading a post mentioning an indicator light went off while the lift was being deployed, but didn't affect it's operation). I understand on 997.2's it's quite expensive to fix and mechanical issues were not uncommon, but also was under the impression from a source that I cannot recall that the lift was redesigned. Sorry if this was covered elsewhere.
In my experience so far, every warning light issue has been tied to having the door open when starting the car (the lift has a door open fail-safe) or forgetting to put the lift down and letting it sit for an extended period so that when restarting there is inadequate pressure in the reservoir causing a slight lowering that the system then detects. The light always disappears and the system proceeds to work properly with a simple close of the door or engine start plus a push of the lift button, and has never flashed a light in normal use.
Besides, I've got a 5 year warranty on the thing. Why worry?
11-19-2014, 03:33 PM
#49
Nordschleife Master
11-19-2014, 03:37 PM
#50
Race Director
Jon, that's true, but it's turns out not to be a big difference. The approach angle for the 991 is 5.8 degrees while the 997 is 5.6 degrees so they are basically identical.
Where there is a big difference is in the ramp break over angle. For those who don't know, RBOA is the maximum angle of an object that a vehicle can drive over without having that object touch any part of the vehicle; a speed bump for example. Because of it's longer wheelbase, the 991 RBOA is only 5.1 degrees while the 997 is twice as great at 10.3 degrees.
The reason the lift helps in this respect is because it raises the car almost 3/4" at the midpoint of the chassis.
β° = Breakover angle; C = Underside of chassis; W = Wheel; G = Ground; M = Midpoint of wheelbase
Where there is a big difference is in the ramp break over angle. For those who don't know, RBOA is the maximum angle of an object that a vehicle can drive over without having that object touch any part of the vehicle; a speed bump for example. Because of it's longer wheelbase, the 991 RBOA is only 5.1 degrees while the 997 is twice as great at 10.3 degrees.
The reason the lift helps in this respect is because it raises the car almost 3/4" at the midpoint of the chassis.
β° = Breakover angle; C = Underside of chassis; W = Wheel; G = Ground; M = Midpoint of wheelbase
11-19-2014, 03:55 PM
#51
Instructor
It's not the same as in the 997. According to Porsche the lift system for the 991 GT3 has been redesigned with new components including a new control module and better sensing for positioning and sensitivity. Porsche also says that the new system is 2-3 times faster than the old one; I've timed it at under 2 seconds to lift fully.
In my experience so far, every warning light issue has been tied to having the door open when starting the car (the lift has a door open fail-safe) or forgetting to put the lift down and letting it sit for an extended period so that when restarting there is inadequate pressure in the reservoir causing a slight lowering that the system then detects. The light always disappears and the system proceeds to work properly with a simple close of the door or engine start plus a push of the lift button, and has never flashed a light in normal use.
Besides, I've got a 5 year warranty on the thing. Why worry?
In my experience so far, every warning light issue has been tied to having the door open when starting the car (the lift has a door open fail-safe) or forgetting to put the lift down and letting it sit for an extended period so that when restarting there is inadequate pressure in the reservoir causing a slight lowering that the system then detects. The light always disappears and the system proceeds to work properly with a simple close of the door or engine start plus a push of the lift button, and has never flashed a light in normal use.
Besides, I've got a 5 year warranty on the thing. Why worry?
11-19-2014, 03:57 PM
#52
Jon, that's true, but it's turns out not to be a big difference. The approach angle for the 991 is 5.8 degrees while the 997 is 5.6 degrees so they are basically identical.
Where there is a big difference is in the ramp break over angle. For those who don't know, RBOA is the maximum angle of an object that a vehicle can drive over without having that object touch any part of the vehicle; a speed bump for example. Because of it's longer wheelbase, the 991 RBOA is only 5.1 degrees while the 997 is twice as great at 10.3 degrees.
The reason the lift helps in this respect is because it raises the car almost 3/4" at the midpoint of the chassis.
β° = Breakover angle; C = Underside of chassis; W = Wheel; G = Ground; M = Midpoint of wheelbase
Where there is a big difference is in the ramp break over angle. For those who don't know, RBOA is the maximum angle of an object that a vehicle can drive over without having that object touch any part of the vehicle; a speed bump for example. Because of it's longer wheelbase, the 991 RBOA is only 5.1 degrees while the 997 is twice as great at 10.3 degrees.
The reason the lift helps in this respect is because it raises the car almost 3/4" at the midpoint of the chassis.
β° = Breakover angle; C = Underside of chassis; W = Wheel; G = Ground; M = Midpoint of wheelbase
Mike, not trying to stir any pot here, but you could have entered at an angle with out scraping correct? Not that you should have to.
I have passed through similar looking undulations at an angle without incident with the old car.
Last edited by 911dev; 11-19-2014 at 04:19 PM.
11-19-2014, 04:01 PM
#53
Thank you Mike, very helpful! It was more of a question out of curiosity that sparked in my head when someone told me that one of the parts on the 997.2 lift is five figures before associated labor. I have it spec'ed on my car anyway due to the slope of my driveway, but potential costly issues that have a good chance of breaking would affect my outlook on the car (e.g. fully enjoy for two or three years, then actively start looking for a replacement or risk being naked on warranty)...probably over thinking it now
11-19-2014, 04:02 PM
#54
Mike
Thank you for that information. I see your point on the lift. I don't regret passing on it yet as I don't yet have experience with the car. I actually have never even seen a 991 gt3 and at this point I'm hoping I don't until I take delivery in 3 weeks.
Thank you for that information. I see your point on the lift. I don't regret passing on it yet as I don't yet have experience with the car. I actually have never even seen a 991 gt3 and at this point I'm hoping I don't until I take delivery in 3 weeks.
11-19-2014, 04:16 PM
#55
Race Director
This is the only reason even I have considered the lift is due to lessened ramp break over angle. I never had issues with entry on my .2 over countless speed bumps, crazy driveways, etc., in two hilly states.
Mike, not trying to stir any pot here, but you could have entered at an angle with out scraping correct? Not that you should have to. I have passed through similar looking undulations at an angle without incident with the old car.
Mike, not trying to stir any pot here, but you could have entered at an angle with out scraping correct? Not that you should have to.
I have passed through similar looking undulations at an angle without incident with the old car.
Given the unusual dip and angle of my driveway it's very difficult to avoid at least a slight scrape, although with an absolutely perfect approach and by feeling my way at a crawl, it's possible.
The example in my pic is extreme, to be sure, but my point was that even in a situation where one would seemingly have no chance without the lift, with the lift there is no problem.
11-19-2014, 06:13 PM
#56
Nordschleife Master
Sorry, that makes less sense than saying the bumper is made to be hit so who cares if you hit it. If the front spoiler was designed to truly be a break away part it wouldn't be rigidly attached to a $6K front valence.
If there is a way to help keep from doing repeated damage to a part on my vehicle, for a minimal 6kg weight penalty and no effect on performance, I will buy it. The ONLY other conceivable consideration is the cost which is a negligible percentage of a $150K car, IMHO, and if it really comes down to an economic choice I'd much rather spend my money on a lift than leather covered dash vents or what have you.
I understand that others feel differently; that's what makes the world go 'round....
If there is a way to help keep from doing repeated damage to a part on my vehicle, for a minimal 6kg weight penalty and no effect on performance, I will buy it. The ONLY other conceivable consideration is the cost which is a negligible percentage of a $150K car, IMHO, and if it really comes down to an economic choice I'd much rather spend my money on a lift than leather covered dash vents or what have you.
I understand that others feel differently; that's what makes the world go 'round....
11-19-2014, 07:11 PM
#57
Race Director
Just be more careful when you "hit stuff" with the 991. The lip is more rigid than on the 997.2 and is attached in such a way that the shock of any contact is transmitted back to the v. expensive front valence more strongly and directly.
11-19-2014, 07:16 PM
#58
Rennlist Member
I'm transporting mine on a trailer. 
11-19-2014, 07:42 PM
#60
Instructor
Wow...cheaper than the color I received. I heard ~$10k for a replacement pump for a 997.2 before labor. Perhaps that is dealer price w/ a nice mark-up over what it would cost elsewhere? Got hit with sticker shock