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OT. New m3/m4
Terrible color and a little blingy- but sounds like will have a manual trans.
Not official, but just read this 422 hp, 400 tq, and 3289 lbs. http://www.autospies.com/news/MONTER...Concept-77599/ May be a semi competitor of gt3 for roughly 1/2 price. |
Looks great!
I think it could be an option as long as it's not a pig heavy. |
Again looks great but I recently shared a garage at a trackday with a current M3 and it could only run 4-5 laps of PI before it had fried tyres, brakes and was overheating engine components etc... That was on an 18oC day... I've done 1 hour stints on a 35oC day... Different league without significant modification...
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What Chris says, but that goes for all cars this side of a GT3.
Unlikely, but maybe the Corvette? BMW turbo's go in limp mode if I drive to the supermarket, or at least every single time I drive the CEL comes on. Give it back to my wife and it goes away again... |
Agreed Trak! Seeing that poor guy run for less than half of each 30 minute session despite the verrrry mild conditions was eye opening... Didn't realise how good we had it by comparison...
When I get to a track, if I don't bury 100 laps that day, I'm disappointed... An M3 would disappoint me as a track car... |
Yeah, nothing makes me grumpier than not being able to run due to mechanical issues.
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Originally Posted by -eztrader-
(Post 10689148)
Terrible color and a little blingy- but sounds like will have a manual trans.
Not official, but just read this 422 hp, 400 tq, and 3289 lbs. http://www.autospies.com/news/MONTER...Concept-77599/ May be a semi competitor of gt3 for roughly 1/2 price. I dont know whats worse, the color of the car or the pants??? I like the car , esp the side profile. SOunds like a good DD. And the CF roof is nice. SOmething thats not even offered on the 911. P ARE YOU LISTENING? 3289lb? I'll take the over. whats the Price? If >$80k, no thanks. |
That M4 is the sexy, even with a horrible color. Interested.
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Originally Posted by kosmo
(Post 10689349)
I dont know whats worse, the color of the car or the pants???
I like the car , esp the side profile. SOunds like a good DD. And the CF roof is nice. SOmething thats not even offered on the 911. P ARE YOU LISTENING? 3289lb? I'll take the over. whats the Price? If >$80k, no thanks. |
3,289??!!
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Originally Posted by TRAKCAR
(Post 10689237)
What Chris says, but that goes for all cars this side of a GT3.
Unlikely, but maybe the Corvette? BMW turbo's go in limp mode if I drive to the supermarket, or at least every single time I drive the CEL comes on. Give it back to my wife and it goes away again... The M3 is a common car used for track days. Will be sad if it is plagued by these same characteristics. Finally, the weight is headed in the right direction though! |
Having trouble believing 3300 lbs.
Front fascia below headlights already in desperate need of a re-design. Using history as a guide, it will be a great street car providing great sounds and comfort, but will disappoint on track other than one fast hot lap. Will need a lot of mods to get it to trackworthy and those mods can add up quickly and destroy resale value. |
Congrats to BMW for making an M finally look like it should.....
Let's hope it spurs Porsche to make the RS one aggressive muther FUC??R IT SHOULD BE.....:jumper::jumper::jumper: ARE YOU READING THIS PAG???? - IF SO, DO IT!!!!!! I'm gonna get my wife this car. |
Looks awesome. The color is very fitting to differentiate itself from the pack. With Standard colors, it'll look plain. Rear wheels must be massive for this beast to stay on the road.
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BMW needs this car to work. as previous M5 owner the New m5 is a let down.
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The 1972 E25 Bracq Turbo concept car that's seen in the background brings back memories from the auto show 40 years ago. Mind blowing for a Junior High kid back then. That car is one of only two that BMW made.
. |
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If 70K euro it will probably cost 70K $ before options in the US,which is a good price!
3295 lb in not bad either... Take that in 6 speed and you have a winner! |
Holy **** that thing is hideous.
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Originally Posted by neanicu
(Post 10689847)
If 70K euro it will probably cost 70K $ before options in the US,which is a good price!
3295 lb in not bad either... Take that in 6 speed and you have a winner! |
Originally Posted by buzztt
(Post 10689890)
70k euros is $91,000, i'm guessing it will be in 80's
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I agree. Around $70s to start then if purpose is as a DD (easily) $10K in options, not including the carbon ceramics, of course...
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do bmw usually sell for that much less in the US ? i know its always less but 20 grand less seems like a lot
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@buzztt --the e92 M3 started at just over $60K (MSRP) for the 6-speed version...
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Here's a link to a Car and Driver writeup on the M4 Concept...
http://www.caranddriver.com/news/bmw...-and-info-news My guess is that their estimate of starting just a bit over $60K is low. There will be a price increase, as this car seems to have so much more being offered on it than on the e92 M3. But, it might have a base price that falls shy of $70K for optics / consumer psychology. But, loaded (excl. carbon brakes), I would expect the car to be close to $80K. With the brakes, and it's probably almost a $90K car. The article mentions that it will be have electric steering...will be interesting to see how BMW's version feels... |
BMW's electric steering is crap! It feels like you're steering a jet-ski without throttle.
Hopefully this will be better... |
@neanicu -- It's amazing how BMW M has mis-stepped with recent new cars. The F10 M5 comes to mind...
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Originally Posted by 0Q991
(Post 10690046)
@neanicu -- It's amazing how BMW M has mis-stepped with recent new cars. The F10 M5 comes to mind...
I drove M3,M5 and M6. Nice cars,but for 120K what the new M6 costs,I'll take a plane old Jane Carrera or even an Exige at almost half price. |
To me, their M cars are great for DD. Can't speak for anything beyond that.
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Originally Posted by frayed
(Post 10689575)
Having trouble believing 3300 lbs.
Front fascia below headlights already in desperate need of a re-design. Using history as a guide, it will be a great street car providing great sounds and comfort, but will disappoint on track other than one fast hot lap. Will need a lot of mods to get it to trackworthy and those mods can add up quickly and destroy resale value. The M6 is even worse... I couldn't believe how fast the owner's day was over at my last track day. https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-s...4/DSC_0359.JPG |
Originally Posted by 0Q991
(Post 10690046)
@neanicu -- It's amazing how BMW M has mis-stepped with recent new cars. The F10 M5 comes to mind...
i do not see what the M4 will have in common with the GT3. it is opposing worlds. peter |
Originally Posted by markow
(Post 10690115)
i had an M5 F10, sort of liked it for what it was (fast cruiser) but - as a driver felt totally left out of the equation - sold it and bought an F458. i do not see what the M4 will have in common with the GT3. it is opposing worlds. peter |
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Originally Posted by buzztt
(Post 10689831)
more info
http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=877447 http://imageshack.us/a/img832/1014/x9ax.jpg |
Given how light it is, I have some hope that this could be a good combo DD and track car.
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I will be really surprised if it is not north of 3600 lbs
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in architecture, we call all the excess detail articulitis..
i think i'll take a rusty 914-4 over that M4. going to ophthalmologist tomorrow, my eyes hurt. |
Originally Posted by 1198r
(Post 10689713)
I'm gonna get my wife this car.
However, knowing BMW's pricing in Dubai, I expect the M4's price to be only 20% or so below the base 991 GT3 price... which is just plain ridiculous and makes the car a lot less interesting, just out of principle! With the reduced weight though, the new one will probably quicker in the mountains than the 1M, something the old M3 never managed... :cool: |
Originally Posted by 0Q991
(Post 10690046)
@neanicu -- It's amazing how BMW M has mis-stepped with recent new cars. The F10 M5 comes to mind...
The parts-bin 1M however... :thumbsup: I wouldn't even parts-exchange mine for a brand new M6 with closed wallets! |
^^+1.
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Originally Posted by TomTom77
(Post 10691343)
Haha, me too. The M3 Saloon, that is. She wants 4 doors, don't ask me why... :confused:
However, knowing BMW's pricing in Dubai, I expect the M4's price to be only 20% or so below the base 991 GT3 price... which is just plain ridiculous and makes the car a lot less interesting, just out of principle! With the reduced weight though, the new one will probably quicker in the mountains than the 1M, something the old M3 never managed... :cool: |
bi-turbo !
OK, not the elegant beauty of a high red line NA but for those of us who live and habitually drive at altitudes above 7000' that turbo motor torque, an honest six-speed, and (fingers crossed) BMW's "put it on a dime" steering make this, if true at 3200 lbs.?!, a serious option. Very exciting car. Approx. 3200 lbs.? Oh please, oh please, oh please.... |
@johnnybahamas -- fingers need to be crossed hard since it'll have BMW's electric steering...
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Originally Posted by 0Q991
(Post 10692197)
@johnnybahamas -- fingers need to be crossed hard since it'll have BMW's electric steering...
I think I'd just take BMW's DCT on this car. It's exceptionally good and the manual is horribly paired with the turbo engines. Build boost, press very light distant pedal, pull extremely rubbery long throw shift knob, at this point all boost is gone and lag into next gear. DCT all the way with the new Ms :( |
Originally Posted by 911rox
(Post 10689202)
Again looks great but I recently shared a garage at a trackday with a current M3 and it could only run 4-5 laps of PI before it had fried tyres, brakes and was overheating engine components etc... That was on an 18oC day... I've done 1 hour stints on a 35oC day... Different league without significant modification...
That said, I am not optimistic about the F30. A standard BMW engine with more boost/more turbos vs a bespoke 8.5K zinger. No doubt they will also be pumping up the engine noise through the stereo like the M5/M6. I would much rather a 991GT with a backseat. |
Originally Posted by RobSpyder
(Post 10692636)
Which thus far has been pathetic. Even the hydraulic steering in the M5 is distant and uncommunicative.(
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Originally Posted by GrantG
(Post 10696122)
Agree - their hydraulic steering is lousy and electric truly wretched. Hope that changes.
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My first was a E36 M3, Avus Blue. It was lightly optioned with manual seats and no sunroof and it weighed a little less than 3200 lbs. My E46 weighed just over 3400 lbs. When the E90 came out weighing in at over 3600 lbs I moved on. It seems BMW completely dismissed their roots in favor of comfort and amenities. It looks like introspection may have resulted in a better car consistent with their M beginnings...
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Originally Posted by handful
(Post 10699637)
My first was a E36 M3, Avus Blue. It was lightly optioned with manual seats and no sunroof and it weighed a little less than 3200 lbs. My E46 weighed just over 3400 lbs. When the E90 came out weighing in at over 3600 lbs I moved on. It seems BMW completely dismissed their roots in favor of comfort and amenities. It looks like introspection may have resulted in a better car consistent with their M beginnings...
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My last BMW of 4 (the first was a new 2002) was an E36 M3 which I sold my 3.2 Carrera to purchase. Huge mistake. The M3 or M whatever are lovely cars but none is a substitute for a 911, IMHO.
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Originally Posted by Mike in CA
(Post 10700105)
My last BMW of 4 (the first was a new 2002) was an E36 M3 which I sold my 3.2 Carrera to purchase. Huge mistake. The M3 or M whatever are lovely cars but none is a substitute for a 911, IMHO.
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sources say NO stick. DCT only.
interesting since its available in the M5. |
Yet the F10 M5 was designed to have M-DCT only...but they added a stick option after the fact. As a result, most if not all reviews of the model have said that the incorporation of a stick seems to have been done after the fact and the feel of the car is disconnected.
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Originally Posted by 0Q991
(Post 10702305)
Yet the F10 M5 was designed to have M-DCT only...but they added a stick option after the fact. As a result, most if not all reviews of the model have said that the incorporation of a stick seems to have been done after the fact and the feel of the car is disconnected.
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Originally Posted by 911rox
(Post 10689202)
Again looks great but I recently shared a garage at a trackday with a current M3 and it could only run 4-5 laps of PI before it had fried tyres, brakes and was overheating engine components etc... That was on an 18oC day... I've done 1 hour stints on a 35oC day... Different league without significant modification...
From the photos it looks like BMW/M have finally done something about the brake issue ... if it really is THAT light ... it might be a contender! |
Originally Posted by kosmo
(Post 10702295)
sources say NO stick. DCT only.
interesting since its available in the M5. |
Originally Posted by handful
(Post 10699637)
My first was a E36 M3, Avus Blue. It was lightly optioned with manual seats and no sunroof and it weighed a little less than 3200 lbs. My E46 weighed just over 3400 lbs. When the E90 came out weighing in at over 3600 lbs I moved on. It seems BMW completely dismissed their roots in favor of comfort and amenities. It looks like introspection may have resulted in a better car consistent with their M beginnings...
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this guys seems out of place.
prob better off doing weather reports in Saskatoon. |
Originally Posted by kosmo
(Post 10702295)
sources say NO stick. DCT only.
interesting since its available in the M5. http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/att...9&d=1377112950 http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=879669 |
I just got one of the last E92 M3's (6-speed with Comp Package) as a daily driver. Did 22 laps at the Ring and car was a blast. That said my 996 GT3 is my dedicated Track Car. I don't ever plan on taking the M3 to the track. It is overengineered for the street and too fat and under braked for the race track.
I think the M4 with the Turbo 6 will make for a lousy track car based on past experience with other BMW turbo motors under heavy use. Glad I got the V8 before they stopped making it. Chet |
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here is a picture in the karousel.
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I wish they had used the beautiful v8 from the m3 in at least one other car, so I could gallop freely unsaddled with all that weight. I had a z4m coupe with the old s54 engine after selling my e46 m3... Night and day.
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Originally Posted by CME
(Post 10718762)
I think the M4 with the Turbo 6 will make for a lousy track car based on past experience with other BMW turbo motors under heavy use. Glad I got the V8 before they stopped making it.
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CME, that cobalt 996 looks fantastic! any pics of that?
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Originally Posted by Petevb
(Post 10718977)
I have a 1M and really enjoy it as a street car. Feels much lighter than it is, very tossable, loves to go sideways. I agree that the motor is too fragile for serious track work without attention/ upgrades, however. I think there is a good chance that the motor in the new M4 will be tougher, however- this will be the first recent turbo motor designed by BMW M, and I have a lot of respect for those guys. I think they can pull off a track worthy turbo if they want to...
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Originally Posted by CAlexio
(Post 10718914)
I wish they had used the beautiful v8 from the m3 in at least one other car, so I could gallop freely unsaddled with all that weight. I had a z4m coupe with the old s54 engine after selling my e46 m3... Night and day.
The new Z4 (35is) weighs nearly as much as a M3 coupe though, ~3600lbs vs the M3's 3700lbs. I guess they use the same lead weights. |
BMW is killing off their best engines: V10 and V8s. what a shame.
I dont give a $hit about CAFE standard. Build more of those ugly E cars. yeah |
Originally Posted by ShakeNBake
(Post 10721265)
The new Z4 (35is) weighs nearly as much as a M3 coupe though, ~3600lbs vs the M3's 3700lbs. I guess they use the same lead weights.
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Looks like the new M3/M4 will be available around the middle of this year. I know it's not in the same 'supercar' category as the GT3, but I'm seeing it as a viable alternative:
- Only about 150 lbs more than the GT3 - 0-60 in about 3.9 s is plenty fast - 406 ft-lb with broad torque band, vs 324 ft-lb at 6250 rpm for the GT3 - Upgraded cooling, etc. gives me hope that it'll be trackworthy - Usable rear seat and trunk - 6-sp manual option (and its double-clutch is likely to be very good) - Reasonably low key, especially in a 'neutral' color - Practical road car, should be fine in winter with winter tires - Base sticker price of about $63K, about half the GT3 out the door |
Originally Posted by frayed
(Post 10689575)
Having trouble believing 3300 lbs.
Front fascia below headlights already in desperate need of a re-design. Using history as a guide, it will be a great street car providing great sounds and comfort, but will disappoint on track other than one fast hot lap. Will need a lot of mods to get it to trackworthy and those mods can add up quickly and destroy resale value. |
Sounds really promising!
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Originally Posted by 991 3Turbo
(Post 11079448)
You are never short on criticism. I think the damn thing looks great. Especially at half the price.
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Nice car. My daughter been asking for a new car. She might like this.
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Originally Posted by frayed
(Post 11079470)
Didn't mean to hurt your feelings. So sorry.
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Originally Posted by -eztrader-
(Post 10689148)
Terrible color and a little blingy- but sounds like will have a manual trans.
Not official, but just read this 422 hp, 400 tq, and 3289 lbs. http://www.autospies.com/news/MONTER...Concept-77599/ May be a semi competitor of gt3 for roughly 1/2 price. |
Awesome car. I love the looks. I dd an '13 M5 and that's way more car then an m3 or this 4. That's a great car but in no way a competitor of the GT3. Different markets.
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Originally Posted by mtuttle
(Post 11079543)
Emphasis on "semi". I had a 2013 M3 for 600 miles. Got rid of it and bought a 13 Boxster S. Night and day difference. IMHO not even in the same league as Porsche in all areas. Sorry to offend M3 owners. Just bought my daughter a bmw 335 and she loves it!
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2 Attachment(s)
Here's my e92, getting pulled over by Tennessee state trooper on "Tail of the Dragon" this past fall.
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Sorry, 0-62 in 4.1 sec, just does not cut it for me. Where I live too many cars would blow me away with that acceleration. In these neck of the woods you need better acceleration than that to get any respect on the road. Even though the performance specs are close I am sure a carrera s would put M3/4 to shame and 911s are dime a dozen here.
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Are those P101s? Brake upgrade too?
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Originally Posted by 0Q991
(Post 11079614)
Are those P101s? Brake upgrade too?
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Originally Posted by aamersa
(Post 11079612)
Sorry, 0-62 in 4.1 sec, just does not cut it for me. Where I live too many cars would blow me away with that acceleration. In these neck of the woods you need better acceleration than that to get any respect on the road.
If you honestly believe that better acceleration gives you more respect on the road (here or elsewhere), we're clearly not in the same neck of the woods, but in different galaxies! :eek: BTW, I'm getting the new M3. In Yas Marina Blue. For my wife. And she'll love it. |
Originally Posted by TomTom77
(Post 11079908)
:banghead: Sorry, but I actually had to laugh out loud reading that statement! 4.1 seconds, 3.5 seconds or 2.9 seconds. Who actually gives a toss?
If you honestly believe that better acceleration gives you more respect on the road (here or elsewhere), we're clearly not in the same neck of the woods, but in different galaxies! :eek: BTW, I'm getting the new M3. In Yas Marina Blue. For my wife. And she'll love it. Glad you got a kick out of my statement but I was not kidding. Just try driving a red sports car where I am and you have people engaging you in some contest every day. I experienced it to a lesser extent with my red 991 and much more now with the 458. Must be the damn color. Also I have been on several out of town drives along with 911 turbo driver, again people join in and want to race you. I need every bit of hp when that happens. |
Originally Posted by aamersa
(Post 11079944)
Sure, I don't disagree with you and others that the m 3/4 is probably a wife car. Of course bmw enthusiasts will hate this comment.
Glad you got a kick out of my statement but I was not kidding. Just try driving a red sports car where I am and you have people engaging you in some contest every day. I experienced it to a lesser extent with my red 991 and much more now with the 458. Must be the damn color. Also I have been on several out of town drives along with 911 turbo driver, again people join in and want to race you. I need every bit of hp when that happens. |
Originally Posted by shizzle
(Post 11079623)
Looks like Brembo brakes and BBS FI wheels.
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Ugly...
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Originally Posted by aamersa
(Post 11079944)
Glad you got a kick out of my statement but I was not kidding. Just try driving a red sports car where I am and you have people engaging you in some contest every day. I experienced it to a lesser extent with my red 991 and much more now with the 458. Must be the damn color. Also I have been on several out of town drives along with 911 turbo driver, again people join in and want to race you. I need every bit of hp when that happens.
Originally Posted by Manifold
(Post 11080000)
WTF are you talking about?! Somebody 'challenges' you to street race, so you have to do it? Are you 12? News alert - street racing is dangerous, including to bystanders. :nono:
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Originally Posted by 911rox
(Post 10689202)
Again looks great but I recently shared a garage at a trackday with a current M3 and it could only run 4-5 laps of PI before it had fried tyres, brakes and was overheating engine components etc... That was on an 18oC day... I've done 1 hour stints on a 35oC day... Different league without significant modification...
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LOL @ Belieber
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Originally Posted by silverrules
(Post 11079571)
Most of my daughter friends love BMW's usually 3 series. I am sure she will like this better than 3 series. She is driving a Audi A4 and ready for a new car she says :)
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Originally Posted by ranger22
(Post 11080348)
are you serious? I'm surprised the M3 engine overheating problems. fried tires, fried brakes and overheating engine -> Maybe he left the parking brake on? I own an M3 that I used to track. In my experience, only the brakes were a weak link on the car. However, maybe I just drive too slow. I've certainly never made my M3 go to limp mode on the way to the grocery store.
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Originally Posted by DrJay
(Post 11080116)
Ugly...
deleted |
Originally Posted by mtuttle
(Post 11080654)
Lol! We just traded my daughter's A4 for the 335. She likes the 335 way better of course. 300hp vs. 200, who wouldn't.
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Originally Posted by aamersa
(Post 11079944)
Sure, I don't disagree with you and others that the m 3/4 is probably a wife car. Of course bmw enthusiasts will hate this comment.
Glad you got a kick out of my statement but I was not kidding. Just try driving a red sports car where I am and you have people engaging you in some contest every day. I experienced it to a lesser extent with my red 991 and much more now with the 458. Must be the damn color. Also I have been on several out of town drives along with 911 turbo driver, again people join in and want to race you. I need every bit of hp when that happens. I don't race on the roads, anywhere. Because it is boring as hell, especially in the straight line (where only the size of your wallet dictates who's fastest). Because it is not safe. Because I'm not 12, as Manifold correctly pointed out. And because there are far too many people here with truckloads more money than driving skills and I don't want them to crash them into me. But IF I would, from experience I know that I don't need more HP to win. I would only need 2 or 3 challenging corners. BTW, my Ferrari 458 Speciale is white. Just so I can avoid those races more easily... :rockon: |
Originally Posted by orthojoe
(Post 11080321)
You're not doing anything to help the stereotyping of sports car owners in dubai....:banghead::
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Originally Posted by TomTom77
(Post 11081142)
:eek: We're clearly on different wavelengths! I'm not buying her the new M3 because it's a wife's car. I'm buying it for her because I don't need another car myself. Out of curiosity, if you define the M3 as a wife's car, what's my 1M? A girl's car? I can assure you that most of my friends with a lot faster cars (458s, 12C, GTR, 911s, Gran Tourismo) failed to stay close to its cartoonishly fat behind in our spirited drives (not races!) on the deserted mountain roads in Fujeirah, regardless of their excess HP.
I don't race on the roads, anywhere. Because it is boring as hell, especially in the straight line (where only the size of your wallet dictates who's fastest). Because it is not safe. Because I'm not 12, as Manifold correctly pointed out. And because there are far too many people here with truckloads more money than driving skills and I don't want them to crash them into me. But IF I would, from experience I know that I don't need more HP to win. I would only need 2 or 3 challenging corners. BTW, my Ferrari 458 Speciale is white. Just so I can avoid those races more easily... :rockon: But since all of us are not blessed with the extreme driving skills you possess, we have to just make do with better acceleration times. I can't comment on the 1M as it is a very limited production car that seems to get rave reviews. It is also manual trans. But I can say that if your exact clone were driving the 1M in Fujeirah and you were driving the 12C, 458 or even Gt3, the 1M would be doing the chasing for sure. True there will always be fatter wallets out there. But I honestly commend you on getting a brand new GT3, 458S and M3 in the same calender year. Life is good. |
Originally Posted by orthojoe
(Post 11080321)
You're not doing anything to help the stereotyping of sports car owners in dubai....:banghead:
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Originally Posted by aamersa
(Post 11081193)
Let me break it to you guys, there is no such thing as a stereotypical sports car owner in Dubai. With well over 150 nationalities in this cosmopolitan city, all from different walks of lives and completely different ways of thinking. The "locals" comprise not much more than 10% of the population. Some here prefer to drive their aventadors at 60 km/hr in a 100k zone while others launch their 911 to north of 250 km/hr on an open stretch of highway free of speed cameras. Others prefer to take their cars to the tracks or to mountain twisties and enjoy the g forces. A very diverse bunch of sports car owners here.
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Originally Posted by aamersa
(Post 11081191)
But since all of us are not blessed with the extreme driving skills you possess, we have to just make do with better acceleration times.
Originally Posted by aamersa
(Post 11081191)
I can't comment on the 1M as it is a very limited production car that seems to get rave reviews. It is also manual trans. But I can say that if your exact clone were driving the 1M in Fujeirah and you were driving the 12C, 458 or even Gt3, the 1M would be doing the chasing for sure.
You don't need supersonic driving skills to enjoy the cars you mentioned above. But buying them to merely show off (which, percentage-wise, is sadly what the majority of owners use them for here) is an complete waste of money and capability, IMHO. But for this majority, it seems that's their way of enjoying the car. And who am I to judge that? We just live in different car (ownership) galaxies, I guess... |
Originally Posted by TomTom77
(Post 11081145)
Please allow me to respectfully distance myself from this stereotype, even though I realize that I'm grossly outnumbered in this town... :icon107:
:thumbup: :cheers: |
This thread is now a joke. Street race? Bigger wallets? Come on.
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What is a M3/4 thread doing on a Gt3 forum in the first place. I second having this entire thread deleted.
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TomTom77,your logical way of thinking and great taste in cars for the best driving experience is clearly not in line with Dubai's trend.
Whoever says the 1M or M3/M4 are not fun or they're a girl's car have no idea what they're talking about... Enjoy a great set of cars! |
I think there's nothing wrong with this tread. Well, the origin of it, that is.
The M3 and M4 will be, as always, proper and practical performance cars for the roads. Not for all tracks though, in all conditions. But go to the Nurburgring and what do you find there? Porsche and BMW, together probably about two-thirds of the cars on the track. And please ignore the cars that are left in the parking lot all day to, again, show off! In most parts of the world, they are also in a completely different price bracket as compared to the GT3 and hence proper value-for-money! Less so here, sadly. I expect the new M3 to be around 80% of the GT3's base price here. Oh, and available with a manual. Sadly my wife prefers the DCT (in traffic), even though she has driven manuals all here life and still does. I am quite tempted to make a 'mistake' in the ordering process and 'accidentally' end up with a manual... ;-) |
Being naturally aspirated is an integral part of the Gt3 and neither M 3/4 are n/a. Lack of forced induction is what distinguishes Gt3 from other high end porsches and its track focus too. So a porsche vs bmw comparison is valid, but perhaps better suited to the turbo section. But again if Tom were driving the 991 turbo he would blow away both Ms with ease.
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Originally Posted by aamersa
(Post 11081766)
Being naturally aspirated is an integral part of the Gt3 and neither M 3/4 are n/a. Lack of forced induction is what distinguishes Gt3 from other high end porsches and its track focus too. So a porsche vs bmw comparison is valid, but perhaps better suited to the turbo section. But again if Tom were driving the 991 turbo he would blow away both Ms with ease.
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Originally Posted by silverrules
(Post 11080919)
Cool, she must be so excited :) A4 is a nice safe car too. The only issue was the Oil consumption which is much better now after the fixes and software upgrade.
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Originally Posted by mtuttle
(Post 11083142)
That's exactly the reason we got rid of her A4. Warranty was up and was using a lot of oil. We had it to the dealer for many times. no fix only added oil!!
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Originally Posted by mtuttle
(Post 11083142)
That's exactly the reason we got rid of her A4. Warranty was up and was using a lot of oil. We had it to the dealer for many times. no fix only added oil!!
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Originally Posted by Manifold
(Post 11082399)
Many would say that manual trans, no RWS, and no torque vectoring are also integral parts of the GT3, but apparently things change ...
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Originally Posted by markow
(Post 10690115)
i had an M5 F10, sort of liked it for what it was (fast cruiser) but - as a driver felt totally left out of the equation - sold it and bought an F458.
i do not see what the M4 will have in common with the GT3. it is opposing worlds. peter The M3/4 will be no true competitor for the GT3. It also will not provide great sound either. That is one of the biggest complaints amongst the guys on the F10 M5 boards. Nearly impossible to get good sound out of the BMW turbos. I do however applaud BMW for heading back in the proper direction with their M cars. Nice to see them shaving weight and leaning towards more performance again instead of worrying about adding so much luxury. They were starting to confuse the consumer and create some disenchantment amongst M enthusiasts. I started a P car thread on the M boards after I had gotten my C2S along with two other buddies who converted before me ad we had about 10 more converts in a matter of just a couple of weeks. |
Whos comparing the bmw w/ a gt3???
In my eyes its s/b be comped w/ a cayman. Btw the bmw 335 iS w/ a turbo 6 sounds great. Way better than my 997 tt. |
If my m3 is such a woman's car, why does it attract so many dudes? :p
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Originally Posted by ranger22
(Post 11085235)
If my m3 is such a woman's car, why does it attract so many dudes? :p
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Even if they're not in the same 'category', when you put them next to each other, either the M3/4 seems like a bargain or the GT3 seems overpriced.
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Surprised at the raspy kinda narly engine sound at idle. I bet under load these cars will sound great.
Front end still hideously overstyled. WTF. Like the overall lines though. Coupe looks better than the 4 door. Prefer naturally aspirated motors for track but the bimmer will be a fine street car. I think a great companion car to 991 GT3 RS. Maybe I'll have both since I'm a BMW fan at heart. . . but it will take a special car for me to come back. Once you start arguing 'value', which focuses on performance/$, then certainly you have to throw the sting ray and camaro into the equation, making all the german cars stupid expensive. Or, a used [insert car] that'll blow the doors off all these cars with a [insert] modification. So the value argument becomes never ending. I tend to look at cars throughout my price range and make a decision on which I want. Every time I've sacrificed and bought a cheaper car than what was in my wheelhouse I regretted it. If the GT3 at 150k is too rich but the bimmers hit your happy place then buy one. Comparing it to a GT3 and relishing in the bargain factor is just mental gymnastics to make yourself feel better every time you give a point by. |
I'm sticking with my E46 M3 I got rather recent. I love it as a DD,track,long trips...you name it! Porsches don't get nearly as much time as this car! They're sitting in the garage while this car is covered in salt. I wouldn't buy the E92 but the new M4 could be it! My only gripe is the Turbos,but it's how things are going these days.
I don't know about the sound on this car,IMO the best Turbo sound I've personally heard is coming from the 5.5 L twin turbo V8s going on new AMGs! Incredible! It takes a really trained ear to realize it's a Turbo if you didn't know it. |
I've got one on order, it'll be my dd. Not a GT3, but half the price. Drive the the GT3 on the weekends.
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Originally Posted by Bluehinder
(Post 11086598)
I've got one on order, it'll be my dd. Not a GT3, but half the price. Drive the the GT3 on the weekends.
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It's got a trunk, you can drive it in the rain to the grocery store.
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Originally Posted by frayed
(Post 11086426)
Once you start arguing 'value', which focuses on performance/$, then certainly you have to throw the sting ray and camaro into the equation, making all the german cars stupid expensive. Or, a used [insert car] that'll blow the doors off all these cars with a [insert] modification. So the value argument becomes never ending. I tend to look at cars throughout my price range and make a decision on which I want. Every time I've sacrificed and bought a cheaper car than what was in my wheelhouse I regretted it.
Among Porsches, IMO the Boxster is the best value, then the Cayman, least for the 911. And among the 911s, IMO best value is either a base or S with minimal options, or the GT3. The only MBs which are decent track cars are the Black Series, which tend to be expensive and I believe the best value among them, the C63 BS, sold out a while ago. Audi has the R8, but I don't think of it as a real track car, and it's expensive anyway. Among BMWs, I think only the M3/4 have hope of being decent track cars, and if so, would represent very good value among the German cars, maybe the best value among the bunch, but yes, value is substantially subjective. |
Since this is OT anyway,this is what I meant when I've mentioned the 5.5 L AMG biturbo V8 :
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Originally Posted by Manifold
(Post 11087004)
If we limit it to German cars, there are still substantial differences in value.
Among Porsches, IMO the Boxster is the best value, then the Cayman, least for the 911. And among the 911s, IMO best value is either a base or S with minimal options, or the GT3. The only MBs which are decent track cars are the Black Series, which tend to be expensive and I believe the best value among them, the C63 BS, sold out a while ago. Audi has the R8, but I don't think of it as a real track car, and it's expensive anyway. Among BMWs, I think only the M3/4 have hope of being decent track cars, and if so, would represent very good value among the German cars, maybe the best value among the bunch, but yes, value is substantially subjective. Anyway why would you artificially limit the value calculation to German cars? Lots of fine Italian, US and Jap machinery out there. It's quite simple. Set out your budget range and buy the most compelling car you can afford in that range. Many other intangibles beyond outright performance per dollar. That's why Ferrari exists. |
Originally Posted by frayed
(Post 11087417)
So your value formula is measured in terms of # of seconds trimmed off a baseline laptime / $cost?
Anyway why would you artificially limit the value calculation to German cars? Lots of fine Italian, US and Jap machinery out there. It's quite simple. Set out your budget range and buy the most compelling car you can afford in that range. Many other intangibles beyond outright performance per dollar. That's why Ferrari exists. I don't exclude the non-German stuff, but my strong preference is German if I'm not overpaying for it. Boxster is a no go for the track, Cayman is nice but I prefer the 911 unless they come up with souped-up Cayman. Italian stuff is beyond my price range and too flashy for my circumstances (GT3 is flashy too, but I can get away with it). Can't think of anything Japanese which is compelling to me right now. The Vette is an option, not really interested in the heavier American cars. So without test drives, under $80K the M3/4 currently looks most compelling to me, over $80K the 991 GT3 or a well-maintained 997 RS at reasonable price. Absolute max budget is $150K, but value is a big factor, and I'd rather spend less if possible - the more expensive the car, the more the mental pain if wrecked on the track, hit on the road, etc. |
OK so value = overall experience/dollar. Then that's so highly subjective your original statement is just one guy's opinion on a random forum. Everybody values different things in a sports or sporty car.
And you think the vette is heavy (relative to the car you are advocating, the bimmer)? Better check your facts. Anyway, sounds like the bimmer is a much better match for you. Enjoy in good health. I just hope it brings back some of the magic that was lost after the E30 and E36 M3s. If it brings enough magic, then one may find a place in my driveway as my daily driver despite its hideous front clip. |
Originally Posted by frayed
(Post 11087645)
OK so value = overall experience/dollar. Then that's so highly subjective your original statement is just one guy's opinion on a random forum. Everybody values different things in a sports or sporty car.
And you think the vette is heavy (relative to the car you are advocating, the bimmer)? Better check your facts. Anyway, sounds like the bimmer is a much better match for you. Enjoy in good health. I just hope it brings back some of the magic that was lost after the E30 and E36 M3s. If it brings enough magic, then one may find a place in my driveway as my daily driver despite its hideous front clip. Not saying the Vette is heavy, I'm saying the other American options are. M3/4 might be the best match (if keeping my 997 C2S with manual, can't not have a Porsche track car), but I haven't quite given up on the 991 GT3 yet. ;) |
piped engine noises...
are they planning on using the stereo to enhance the in-cabin engine noise on the 3/4 as they did on the 5?
:( |
Originally Posted by ColdList
(Post 11084925)
Agreed 100%. Had an F10 M5 and felt the same way. Still have an F12 M6 cab. GREAT touring car but for the track no thanks! They are heavy pigs compared to the 991. (and remember, I still own one so I say this affectionately). Pre-traded my 991 C2S and 991 TT for my TTS order so I am having to drive the M6 (wife's DD) and my F150. While I love them both, they are really heavy. No joke, and obviously this is a silly comparison as the F12 will massively out handle the F150 4x4 but I swear that the truck doesn't really feel any weightier when driving about town than the M6. Might be because the F150 has the 6 cyl eco-boost turbo and is very light under the hood but it truly does not feel heavier overall even though it is. Might also be the heavy steering of the M6. In any case, I wouldn't want either on a track!
The M3/4 will be no true competitor for the GT3. It also will not provide great sound either. That is one of the biggest complaints amongst the guys on the F10 M5 boards. Nearly impossible to get good sound out of the BMW turbos. I do however applaud BMW for heading back in the proper direction with their M cars. Nice to see them shaving weight and leaning towards more performance again instead of worrying about adding so much luxury. They were starting to confuse the consumer and create some disenchantment amongst M enthusiasts. I started a P car thread on the M boards after I had gotten my C2S along with two other buddies who converted before me ad we had about 10 more converts in a matter of just a couple of weeks. |
Just heard a sound clip of the M4 on another board. Disappointing to say the least!
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ah man that sux. i mean if they can make a 335 IS sound good why not an M?!
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Im not thrilled with new BMWs at all.
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Originally Posted by RINGMEISTER27
(Post 11090736)
Just heard a sound clip of the M4 on another board. Disappointing to say the least!
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Originally Posted by Hoopumpers
(Post 11091301)
Agree stock clips don't sound good. An eisenmann will liven things up substantially. 1500rpm torque is good but turbos sound bad. Can't win em all. I'll be driving M4 on nordschleife in a few months. Will report back.
Sound-wise, standard they might indeed be a bit boring, but my 1M's sound also transformed after fitting Akrapovic Evolution exhaust and sounds pretty epic now, albeit being a Turbo. Better than a 991 Turbo (S) even, some might argue. So I guess I'll be ordering one of those for this one too... |
^ The N54 is a great sounding motor for a turbo no doubt but I dont know whether the S55 is suffering from tight euro sound regulations or its just its nature. Downpipes and a free flowing exhaust will help but no way will it come near to the glory my S65 with catless Akra GT4 setup sings!
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Originally Posted by TomTom77
(Post 11091638)
I'm curious to see how you'll find it, I've put my order in yesterday.
Sound-wise, standard they might indeed be a bit boring, but my 1M's sound also transformed after fitting Akrapovic Evolution exhaust and sounds pretty epic now, albeit being a Turbo. Better than a 991 Turbo (S) even, some might argue. So I guess I'll be ordering one of those for this one too... what color did you take? carbon roof i hope... peter |
Originally Posted by markow
(Post 11091816)
tom,
what color did you take? carbon roof i hope... peter Carbon roof: because it looks awesome and is a lot lighter. And 4 doors: the wife prefers that for practicality. Me too this time, just so that the badge remains the right one! :rockon: |
I think it sounds good when revved, not so at idle. But the engine seems very rev happy for a turbo engine.
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Originally Posted by sunnyr
(Post 11092780)
I think it sounds good when revved, not so at idle. But the engine seems very rev happy for a turbo engine.
BMW M4 (F82) Coupe Exhaust Sound [2 of 2] - YouTube |
Argh, so much talk about appearance and sound ... anyone besides me interested in how it drives and holds up on track?
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Originally Posted by Manifold
(Post 11093363)
Argh, so much talk about appearance and sound ... anyone besides me interested in how it drives and holds up on track?
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Originally Posted by Manifold
(Post 11093363)
Argh, so much talk about appearance and sound ... anyone besides me interested in how it drives and holds up on track?
With track as a focus, hopefully they've figured out the turbo and/or DCT heat & airflow issues. On a positive note, I've heard from a very reliable source/driver that the steering is extremely good. This was of course a major area of concern with a new electric system. |
Originally Posted by Manifold
(Post 11093363)
Argh, so much talk about appearance and sound ... anyone besides me interested in how it drives and holds up on track?
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According to that xcar video a few pages back, the weight loss is only 80kg over the e90. Don't know where the rags came up with ~3200, that's more like 3400.
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Originally Posted by kosmo
(Post 11085215)
Whos comparing the bmw w/ a gt3???
In my eyes its s/b be comped w/ a cayman. Btw the bmw 335 iS w/ a turbo 6 sounds great. Way better than my 997 tt. I have no doubt your 335 sounds as good as your 997TT. BMW is very odd in the sounds of the various configurations. For instance, my F12 M6 sounds way better than my F10 M5 did with the same motor. :confused: |
Originally Posted by sqweak
(Post 11096519)
According to that xcar video a few pages back, the weight loss is only 80kg over the e90. Don't know where the rags came up with ~3200, that's more like 3400.
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Originally Posted by Alan Smithee
(Post 11102622)
Definitely more realistic, and would still be a feat considering BMW's own numbers of 3,580 for the 435i and 3,505 for the M235i.
"Fortunately, the new Ms shed pounds thanks to lightweight (and naturally, costly) materials like carbon fiber and aluminum. BMW says the M4 will weigh 3,300 pounds while the M3 weighs 3,351 pounds." |
Almost 300lbs less than a 435i, with all of the necessary hardware that goes along with a 40% power increase? I will believe it when a mag puts one on a scale. It is still the same unibody and drivetrain configuration, with the same creature comforts, and already an aluminum-intensive chassis. A few more aluminum bits and some CF can only go so far...
But if such a large car (these really are the size of a 5-series from not long ago) ends up 3,300lbs full of fluids, I will be very impressed. |
My e90M3 is 3780lbs on scales with full tank. Makes F80 about 3600 (with ceramic brakes).
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I got a call from my dealer yesterday that my new M3 will arrive at the dealership by the end of this week. expected thought it would be June or July, so that's a great and pleasant surprise! And a perfect way to get my mind off the stop-drive cluster-f..k of ever increasing proportions!
I can't wait for the car to arrive. Am very curious to see the Yas Marina Blue in the flesh. I will add the usual Akrapovic Evolution exhaust as soon as it is available and it'll be epic! Note to self: it's my wife's daily driver. Guess I have to steal it from time to time... :icon501: |
sweet car ... manual or DCT?
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Sure looks good in the picture.
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good news, but wait on the mods, you never know there could be some recalls ;)
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Originally Posted by TomTom77
(Post 11309511)
I got a call from my dealer yesterday that my new M3 will arrive at the dealership by the end of this week.
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Originally Posted by TomTom77
(Post 11309511)
I got a call from my dealer yesterday that my new M3 will arrive at the dealership by the end of this week. expected thought it would be June or July, so that's a great and pleasant surprise! And a perfect way to get my mind off the stop-drive cluster-f..k of ever increasing proportions! I can't wait for the car to arrive. Am very curious to see the Yas Marina Blue in the flesh. I will add the usual Akrapovic Evolution exhaust as soon as it is available and it'll be epic! Note to self: it's my wife's daily driver. Guess I have to steal it from time to time... :icon501:
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There is some data floating around on the true weight of the car with a full tank and it looks like it's more like 50-80lbs lighter without ceramics, not 200. Impressive for a larger car, but not the dainty featherweight that harkens back to the E30 like everyone was thinking.
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Nice car, Please weigh it for us upon arrival.
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Looks nice in blue but I bet yours will be white :)
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Originally Posted by Larry Cable
(Post 11309704)
sweet car ... manual or DCT?
Originally Posted by kosmo
(Post 11309798)
good news, but wait on the mods, you never know there could be some recalls ;)
Originally Posted by Manifold
(Post 11310043)
Sure that's correct? I'm not even aware of any journalists having driven the car yet.
Originally Posted by 0Q991
(Post 11310239)
Would love to hear your first impressions, after the car arrives.
Originally Posted by -eztrader-
(Post 11310489)
Nice car, Please weigh it for us upon arrival.
Originally Posted by silverrules
(Post 11311090)
Looks nice in blue but I bet yours will be white :)
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Originally Posted by Manifold
(Post 11310043)
Sure that's correct? I'm not even aware of any journalists having driven the car yet.
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Such a hot ride. I'm excited to test one. I think it'd be a perfect daily.
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http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-GL6QRs8hnh...oto-3+copy.jpg
3562 lbs with full tank, 6 speed, steel brakes, CF roof, and a bunch of other options like HUD, Premium stereo, big wheels... http://blog.axisofoversteer.com/2014...ur-scales.html |
3562 lbs, full tank, no ceramic.
nice, manual or dct? full tank about 100lbs? |
Originally Posted by TRAKCAR
(Post 11318074)
3562 lbs, full tank, no ceramic.
nice, manual or dct? full tank about 100lbs? |
Originally Posted by TRAKCAR
(Post 11318074)
3562 lbs, full tank, no ceramic.
nice, manual or dct? full tank about 100lbs? It is not far from the 3540lbs list on bmwusa.com - http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...fications.aspx bmwusa.com had E92 M3 at 3704lbs, but that might be with DCT. |
Originally Posted by ShakeNBake
(Post 11318114)
That's 50lb less than a E92 with a similar config....you need ceramics :evilgrin:
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C&D had a comparison test that included a 2012 e92 Comp Package with 6 speed. Weight was 3,552 I believe.
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From
"With the different methods of weight measurement used for the US and EU markets, there's been some confusion as to the actual weight of the F80 M3 / F82 M4 (versus the published weights), even after our recent interview. Luckily, Axis of Oversteer got their hands on a F80 M3 and put it on the scale. It weighed in a 3562 pounds. This weight was measured with a full tank (60 liters / 15.9 gallons) and without driver. Options include: standard (non-ceramic) brakes, carbon fiber roof, 6 speed manual transmission, 19" wheels, LED headlights, HUD, and HK audio. Update: Axis of Oversteer also recently had a E90 M3 on the same scale and it weighed in a 3736 lbs (fully optioned, DCT, full tank, no driver) - 174 lbs heavier than the F80 M3. On the same scale, a E92 weighed in at 3585 lbs (no sunroof, manual transmission)" |
nice car....can't wait to drive one
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So 3562lbs minus about 6lbs per gallon = minus 96lbs = 3466lbs or about minus 28lbs = 3438 lbs with Ceramic brakes.
Not bad for a comfy 4 door. Automatic transmission would add 50lbs sunroof would add about 20lbs? and non Ceramic would add 28lbs |
Not a huge weight savings but then how many models get larger, more cush and lux, more wheel and brake, more motor and lose any weight...can't think of any off the top of my head.
I've ordered an M3 for Munich pick up, should be a great daily beater and child hauler with decent fuel mileage. |
Originally Posted by consolidated
(Post 11318663)
I've ordered an M3 for Munich pick up, should be a great daily beater and child hauler with decent fuel mileage.
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Originally Posted by consolidated
(Post 11318663)
Not a huge weight savings but then how many models get larger, more cush and lux, more wheel and brake, more motor and lose any weight...can't think of any off the top of my head. I've ordered an M3 for Munich pick up, should be a great daily beater and child hauler with decent fuel mileage.
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E-mailed dealer getting ED delivery date.
Trying to sell wifey with 7% discount and 2 weeks BMW driving at home in Germany. http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...erYourBMW.aspx |
And don't forget you get 4 years maintenance for free
Oil changes, belt services, rotors, pads, brake fluid, all free for 4 years Try that with your P car..... Bill |
There's another intriguing option from BMW too, the M235i racing:
http://www.bmw-motorsport.com/en/cars/bmw-m235ir.html |
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$85,000.00 is not bad for a race ready racecar.
I'm all for a group buy :-) Also PFC brakes, I wonder if these are the same as on the M235I street car and steel brakes of the M3. |
Originally Posted by TRAKCAR
(Post 11319735)
$85,000.00 is not bad for a race ready racecar.
I'm all for a group buy :-) |
BMW gives 7percent back with euro delivery? Wow, never knew that
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And bmwcca will throw 1k rebate at you if you've been a member for a while.
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you sure about the rebate on the new m3/m4? I heard there was an exclusion to them. It's normally, $500 for the 3 and 4 series.
Thinking really hard about the M3/4 vs a cayman s for the track. I would hate the heaviness of the bmw. How much does that race ready m235i weigh? |
Originally Posted by 9972RS
(Post 11319988)
you sure about the rebate on the new m3/m4? I heard there was an exclusion to them. It's normally, $500 for the 3 and 4 series.
Thinking really hard about the M3/4 vs a cayman s for the track. I would hate the heaviness of the bmw. How much does that race ready m235i weigh? |
Originally Posted by -eztrader-
(Post 11319870)
BMW gives 7percent back with euro delivery? Wow, never knew that
http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...erYourBMW.aspx M3 starting at $57k with discount... |
Originally Posted by GrantG
(Post 11320271)
M3 starting at $57k with discount...
In comparison, the GT3 starts here at 133k USD :confused: |
Tom, please post picture of your blue M3 when it arrives. I think blue fits the car.
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Originally Posted by GrantG
(Post 11320271)
Here is the program:
http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...erYourBMW.aspx M3 starting at $57k with discount... Also ... I believe the car comes out of a N.A ED allocation and not from the dealers allocation ... so they should not be as anal about it... |
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The M3/4 is coming out of the dealers allocation unfortunately, so ED has been hard to get and even harder to discount. The options are full price however, just the base is discounted. Standard carbon roof, trunk, strut brace, interior trim.
No BMWCCA rebate and no free M School sadly. But for $57K and soon less, should be a great driving car. First cars delivered this week. |
BMW Euro Delivery
Originally Posted by Larry Cable
(Post 11321591)
its a great program, I have done it twice now and would recommend it ...
http://www.yobyot.com/wp-content/upl...JunJul2013.pdf Saludos, Eduardo Carmel |
When I took ED of my 2002 M3 in 2001 it was not yet officially part of the program, so no discount. But I did get the BMWCCA rebate...
I was impressed that BMW NA reimbursed me for the cost of my first service (done by Wallis Motor Duna in Budapest), as free service is unique to the US. |
Some decent reviews today (but not over the moon), but this tweet from Chris Harris is encouraging:
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Originally Posted by Z356
(Post 11321696)
I agree. I have done it three times since 1995 - '95 m3, '04 745i, '07 650i Vert. It's the best European Delivery program at the moment with the most savings! Of course, the Euro Delivery MSRP is lower on a BMW. But also remember that the Euro Delivery 'invoice' is lower still on that car! You negotiate up from ED 'invoice' with your US BMW dealer (soon on M3/M4 too, after they have been in the market for a while).
http://www.yobyot.com/wp-content/upl...JunJul2013.pdf Saludos, Eduardo Carmel |
When do they expect the new M3 to hit the US Dealers? I have never driven an M3 and would like to give it a test
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Originally Posted by Jimmy-D
(Post 11356126)
When do they expect the new M3 to hit the US Dealers? I have never driven an M3 and would like to give it a test
In short, I think we should see customer cars at dealers by the end of the month. I'm curious if they'll be delivered, though, because launch day is 21 June from what I've heard. |
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Originally Posted by redleg321
(Post 11372026)
In short, I think we should see customer cars at dealers by the end of the month. I'm curious if they'll be delivered, though, because launch day is 21 June from what I've heard.
I received confirmation from my dealership this Monday that my car will be delivered coming Thursday. That's the first in Dubai. More have been delivered in Abu Dhabi already... see below. On a side-note, the dealership dealt with this impeccably. Which contrasted with the terrible communication and customer management surrounding the GT3 big time... |
Off topic, but I would take this if they would build it the way it is now as a concept
http://jalopnik.com/the-audi-a3-club...der-1576794594 |
Originally Posted by TomTom77
(Post 11372037)
I guess they will be delivered, notwithstanding the global launch date. Note that the first M3 was delivered to a customer in Abu Dhabi on 23rd April. My car arrived at the dealership the following Monday, but delivery was blocked due to that same global launch. See the "Not again" thread...
I received confirmation from my dealership this Monday that my car will be delivered coming Thursday. That's the first in Dubai. More have been delivered in Abu Dhabi already... see below. On a side-note, the dealership dealt with this impeccably. Which contrasted with the terrible communication and customer management surrounding the GT3 big time... Glad you've got the delivery worked out as well. :cheers: |
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So Sutcliffe says crap throttle response, crap steering, and crap sound, and Harris says ace. Interesting.
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Originally Posted by Nizer
(Post 11374572)
So Sutcliffe says crap throttle response, crap steering, and crap sound, and Harris says ace. Interesting.
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/news/de...?storyId=30002 |
The Mercedes looked pretty interesting. Has any one driven the car in the video above??. I have never been a Mercedes fan and maybe that is because my impression is that it is more of a luxurious car and I like my cars a little raw.
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Originally Posted by TomTom77
(Post 11374650)
I was wondering the same! Here are Harris' first notes:
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/news/de...?storyId=30002 The interesting part about that picture above is that while the new platform is 50% different (i think) than the F30 chassis, the doors on the M3 are exactly the same as an F30, so in order to fit those 19x10.5" wheels and rear subframe, they rolled her fenders pretty wide! I've got an M4 on the way for many reasons, but the hips of the F80 really give it a provocative look and made me think twice. |
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Originally Posted by redleg321
(Post 11374909)
I've got an M4 on the way for many reasons, but the hips of the F80 really give it a provocative look and made me think twice.
Those rear arches look amazing indeed. That part with the flared side skirts as you can see on the picture (which pronounce that shape even more), together with the this-time functioning air-vents behind the front wheels, are the strongest visual parts of the car, I reckon... BMW and it's flared arches... I love them! :thumbup: |
This photo of the front is different from the one above in metallic yellow: specifically the interior sections of the headlights. They don't extend like they do on the green M4. I never liked the friendship bracelet look as featured on all of the new 3 series. So which is it?
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Originally Posted by handful
(Post 11375086)
This photo of the front is different from the one above in metallic yellow: specifically the interior sections of the headlights. They don't extend like they do on the green M4. I never liked the friendship bracelet look as featured on all of the new 3 series. So which is it?
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Tom,
I'm sure you've read all the sound/steering/M5-M6 arguments ad nauseum over at the BMW forums and the reviews as well. I just noticed Chris Harris calling a journalist out on the PH forum and thought it was a great retort on Harris' part. To me it ends the BS "controversy" that journalists and internet trolls are stirring. cmoose said: Perhaps. But I also think that perhaps the current car enthusiast journalistic crop forgets that the guy buying the M3/4 may not actually drive much or even anything else regularly. So while journos are routinely in something with a really extreme engine / getting their visceral fix and therefore think, OK for my daily this new M3 engine is bland but torquey and that's OK, for the people buying this car I think they should be encouraged to demand something more exciting and life affirming than yet another samey, numb turbo rocket. If you're driving GT3s and Paganis and P1s and LaFs regularly, a bland M3 lump is OK for a daily / chase / camera car etc. If it's really all you drive, the loss of the old NA BMW engines is a minor tragedy - that's what made M cars so wonderful, you drove a saloon with an engine that was as special and exciting as a supercar. Plus the M3 daily of today is the used performance bargain / weekend toy of tomorrow, and none of the latest M crop appeal in that context, more's the pity. Chris Harris replies: Jeremy - I'm going to call you by your real name Mr.Laird because I think you often represent yourself as being 'in the trade' and people like us - journalists - don't really have the right to hide behind soubriquets. Before presenting yourself as the arbiter of what all car enthusiasts should want in an everyday, fast saloon car, it might be best to drive the new M3. If you do and still think the engine is bland, it'll confirm that my opinion on the subject of what is usable, enjoyable and an acceptable loss in 'feel' in the face of ever more stringent emissions and safety regulations is very different to yours. Of course mine is just another opinion, as is yours, but If you'd like to openly discuss which of us better understands this end of the marketplace,and what buyers are actually looking for, then I'm happy to do so here. And admit my mistakes. But as far as I can recall, I have never edited a car magazine devoted to electric cars and hybrids. However, I have lived with pretty much every car in this class for tens of thousands of miles at a time. Of course your blanket dismissal of people like me spending too much time in GT3s to be able to judge what someone might want from a single performance car is ludicrous, so I won't bother to explain it. What I will reiterate is that torque is far more useful than outright power in a street car. And I think more absorbing for a daily driver over time. The new M3 has torque and too end. I ran an E92 M3 everyday, for 11,000 miles to confirm that'll had too little of the former. But I also drove a few Zondaghinis during that period, so according to your theory, I'm not qualified to state that I had to drive the buttons off it to stay ahead of turbodiesels and I just couldn't enjoy that amazing top end enough. Fuel economy? Read again - I'm talking about range. Range is what matters to people who can afford a £60k car. Spending less time at horrid fuel stations. And that is sadly quite closely related to fuel economy. Again, my frequent exposure to Ferraris must mean that I don't quite understand the range issue on the E92. Sorry if you think I've given you both barrels unfairly, but I don't think it's fair to jump chameleon-style between being forum punter and journalist when it suits you. And then to have pops from the sidelines . The M3 is a cracker in my opinion. Anyone who thinks the powertrain is boring needs their head looking at. But that's just my opinion. What really matters is what owners think of the car. I hope to be one of those at some point. And I'll still drive the odd GT3. Typed on my phone, so apologies for typos etc |
Originally Posted by redleg321
(Post 11375190)
Tom,
I'm sure you've read all the sound/steering/M5-M6 arguments ad nauseum over at the BMW forums and the reviews as well. I just noticed Chris Harris calling a journalist out on the PH forum and thought it was a great retort on Harris' part. To me it ends the BS "controversy" that journalists and internet trolls are stirring. |
Originally Posted by redleg321
(Post 11375190)
Tom,
I'm sure you've read all the sound/steering/M5-M6 arguments ad nauseum over at the BMW forums and the reviews as well. I just noticed Chris Harris calling a journalist out on the PH forum and thought it was a great retort on Harris' part. To me it ends the BS "controversy" that journalists and internet trolls are stirring.
Originally Posted by MayorAdamWest
(Post 11375187)
That looks like the 1M, which I think may be the best looking M ever.
Originally Posted by MaxLTV
(Post 11375231)
Good quote. Weirdly, both of them make a lot of sense to me, even though they seem like arguing. With one car, you do want it to be useable but special. My BMW 335xi tuned to over 400HP was ultimately useable, but not special enough for me. E90 M3 with manual lacked torque. E90 M3 with DCT was just right - downshift in a fraction of a second and lay black rubber strips at any revs in first and much of the second gear. And yes, it's ok to downshift to first with DCT; it is actually awesome. So with DCT, torque became a non-issue. But range was crap - very annoying in daily driving. If M3/M4 were the only car, I'd welcome better mileage/range and less NVH at lower revs (but still good noise at high revs). Other than that, the previous one was a perfect daily driver already. Well, maybe ventilated seats would be good too :-). Any decrease in enjoyment from steering or throttle response would be a loss - it's part of what made it special.
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Another review: http://www.autoblog.com/2014/05/20/2...-drive-review/
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Or the new C63 AMG..
Too bad to see the 6.2L go, but if they make it light enough this could be good with a V8TT also destines for the AMG-GT. http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...-amg-spy-video |
BMW makes a really good product, and the warranty blows Porsche away. I have owned multiple E36's, E46 M3, and E92 M3 along with other BMW cars. BMW is finally going in the right direction in terms of weight. The E46M3 was heavy and the E90 M3's are pigs. The new M3/M4 lost a lot of weight and will be a very fun car to drive. I took my E 92 M3 on the track and had a lot of fun. That said for the track the GT3 is superior in every way. For 1/2 the price the BMW will be a really fun daily driver.
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I don't think it actually lost much weight but no question it'll be fun.
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Originally Posted by Nizer
(Post 11386101)
I don't think it actually lost much weight but no question it'll be fun.
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The current C63 is 3650lbs, Mercedes talks about a 150-220lb weight loss.
The BMW is 3400 lbs, so the V8TT could be about 100lbs heavier only. I just wonder how much weight the can get out of the AMG GT with the same engine? Maybe it can weigh the same as a 911? In effect its a sexy looking 2 door C class, so it could come in at 911 prices with similar weight but much more power and torque. AMG has been doing a lot of driving events at PBIR and PBIR kills brakes, so I wonder how they make them last all day? The SLS GT is 3570lbs, so I think it will at least be 200lbs lighter than that. http://www.mbusa.com/mercedes/vehicl...nt=model-specs |
im looking forward to the M3/4. I'd prob get the Sedan w/ a stick and slap on a Tubi exhaust. I miss my E39 M5.
I wont buy the AMG GT because of the dumb ass long hood. Cant beat the 911 for visibility . |
The plan is to go M3 with a no leather, adjustable suspension and flappy's for wife and the ceramics to have a chance that oem brakes will do a track session.
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perhaps getting CCB for the track IS a good idea, given that its covered under BMW's 4/50k maintenance plan???
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Is the car warrantied for track?
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of course. this isnt a PORSCHE !
:icon501: :roflmao: |
Originally Posted by kosmo
(Post 11386608)
of course. this isnt a PORSCHE ! :icon501: :roflmao:
Technically, apparently the 991 GT3 is the first GT3 warrantied for track use, so long as you keep the recommended service intervals for track use... |
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Originally Posted by TRAKCAR
(Post 11386434)
The plan is to go M3 with a no leather, adjustable suspension and flappy's for wife and the ceramics to have a chance that oem brakes will do a track session.
Now, after the delayed delivery debacle as listed in the "Not again..." thread (which they handled really well, BTW), I had to find out this week, 3 days prior to today's planned delivery, that the sales guy screwed up and my car doesn't have the adaptive suspension that I ordered. And without it, it's very stiff, as we drove the car (unregistered) around the block. But, the new M5 with adaptive suspension that we drove too, showed very little difference between the Comfort / Sport setting. So, I was tempted to just take this car regardless, but wanted a decent discount. And this is where the dealer's senior management started to become a pain. Sure, I understand that they can sell the car tomorrow at the full price, but they've messed it up and I believe they need to make this up with me... but they're barely doing anything. Which annoys me. A lot. I could order another new one, but that'll take 3 months. And I would have to give back their X6 loaner that I'm driving because they gave me false information about the delivery date earlier, after I sold my wife's car based on their promised delivery date. And that's not ideal either, because that leaves the Speciale or 1M (manual) for her to drive daily (after the Panamera loaner is gone, that is)... Being a BMW guy at heart, I'm so pissed now that I'm even contemplating getting one of the last C63 AMG 507s... My biggest frustration is that I'm fed up having these ultra-first-world problems. First the GT3, now this. Shouldn't it be insane fun buying these cars (cash) and enjoying the whole anticipation and ownership experience? Well, I can tell you, with the GT3 and M3 it isn't. It started as an emotional purchase and became a very rational business transaction. Most funny fact: only Ferrari, notorious for messing orders up and being very arrogant in their customer treatment, was impeccable over here. And the car is bulletproof. Maybe this move to the Italians pissed off the German car lords and I got punished accordingly? Sorry boys, rant over. And yes, the M3 is an amazing machine, see below... which makes the decision (to go elsewhere) even more complicated! |
get the 507. these types of cars are going away. And drive the 507 to the BMW dealer to pick up your wife.
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Originally Posted by TRAKCAR
(Post 11386434)
The plan is to go M3 with a no leather, adjustable suspension and flappy's for wife and the ceramics to have a chance that oem brakes will do a track session.
Originally Posted by TomTom77
(Post 11386644)
I could order another new one, but that'll take 3 months. And I would have to give back their X6 loaner that I'm driving because they gave me false information about the delivery date earlier, after I sold my wife's car based on their promised delivery date. And that's not ideal either, because that leaves the Speciale or 1M (manual) for her to drive daily (after the Panamera loaner is gone, that is)...
I would order what you want and ask for discount and extended loaner. |
The major difference is that BMW includes free maintenance.. Which includes brakes!
Unless they post an exclusion for the ceramics on the m3/4, this could be a HUGE reason to buy these and use this car on the track with a major major cost removed from the equation. This is worth looking into, potential game changer. Free ceramic brake replacements for 4 years anyone??!! |
Originally Posted by CAlexio
(Post 11386850)
The major difference is that BMW includes free maintenance.. Which includes brakes! Unless they post an exclusion for the ceramics on the m3/4, this could be a HUGE reason to buy these and use this car on the track with a major major cost removed from the equation. This is worth looking into, potential game changer. Free ceramic brake replacements for 4 years anyone??!!
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post #217
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Originally Posted by CAlexio
(Post 11386850)
The major difference is that BMW includes free maintenance.. Which includes brakes!
Unless they post an exclusion for the ceramics on the m3/4, this could be a HUGE reason to buy these and use this car on the track with a major major cost removed from the equation. This is worth looking into, potential game changer. Free ceramic brake replacements for 4 years anyone??!! |
Tom,
Sorry to hear about your ordeal! My M4 is on a vessel heading over right now. I don't think I'm going to be disappointed but if my adaptive suspension or anything i ordered is not present, I will be quite upset. I'm also taking performance center delivery in Spartansburg, SC so flogging a few M5/M6's around the track will be nice. I'm not sure what you ought to do, to be honest. I'd probably consult with the misses and go from there. As you said, it's an "ultra first world problem" which is great to have! :cheers: |
Originally Posted by Petevb
(Post 11386970)
However the maintenance plan and warranty are both void if you track it.
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I bought one. AW M4, scheduled to arrive 6/14.
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Originally Posted by Bluehinder
(Post 11387908)
I bought one. AW M4, scheduled to arrive 6/14.
Good choice! :thumbup: |
Chris Harris' review should be in any day now. This guy below was on track with him as he notes during the video.
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TomTom77 - I would have my Wife test drive the BMW and see if she thinks it is too stiff w/o the adaptive suspension. If she thinks it is too stiff have her lean in to Management over there. I bet they will give in when the see her unhappy. Now, if she does not mind then I would just take it and move on.
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Originally Posted by Jimmy-D
(Post 11391046)
TomTom77 - I would have my Wife test drive the BMW and see if she thinks it is too stiff w/o the adaptive suspension. If she thinks it is too stiff have her lean in to Management over there. I bet they will give in when the see her unhappy. Now, if she does not mind then I would just take it and move on.
My wife and I did drive 'our M3' for a short test drive. And yes, it's stiff w/o the adaptive suspension. I'd give it a '8' on the 0 - 10 stiffness scale. The next day though, the dealer gave us a new M5 with adaptive suspension to feel the difference. The "Sport" setting on that was probably an '8' too, with "Comfort" only a 7. So barely a difference... So, now it's just a matter of principle. Only because the dealer's senior management is taking a hard stance, notwithstanding their screw-up of this entire process... and that annoys me greatly. Out of curiosity, I inquired at Mercedes. There's one C63 AMG 507 demo available left in Dubai, with 6k km. I love the sound / power of that car, but not that it's black (which is a pain in the sandy / warm desert) and the inside / outside is very old-school... the generation difference is very apparent compared to the new M3, as one would expect. It is 20k USD cheaper though... Choices, choices... |
Took wifey to show M3 and order one, but we delayed till spring for ED.
We did look a C63, but even though we loved it better than M3 it's an old model so unless massive discount better buy M3 and do DE. We were both shocked; sounds awesome much more room than my CL and we are both tall and she loved the look inside and out. Inside is old, she has a new 535 but it did not turn her off. Without ED option I would take a C63 if discounted enough. I'm even thinking of trading my CL for a '10 CL63 non turbo of course.. |
Anything with an M156 engine is going to be good.
The problem I have with the C63 is the same as you guys; tired style and also the trans isn't the greatest. CL is another matter. That's got more futureproof styling, IMO. |
I have an '11 C63 sedan. Styling looks great to me inside and out. Engine is awesome, a German NA 6.2 L V8 is something special. Steering feel is also excellent. But yes, the transmission is lacking - shifting is too slow with the paddles and it overheats on the track, though the rev matching is pretty cool.
I'll be test driving the new M3/M4 for sure, but am disappointed that the weight reduction is less than expected. I had thought the M might replace the C, but now I'm not sure, the C may be a keeper. |
Originally Posted by TRAKCAR
(Post 11393415)
Took wifey to show M3 and order one, but we delayed till spring for ED. We did look a C63, but even though we loved it better than M3 it's an old model so unless massive discount better buy M3 and do DE.
Without ED option I would take a C63 if discounted enough. I'm even thinking of trading my CL for a '10 CL63 non turbo of course.. But yes, the M3 is on another level / generation inside and out. But that N/A V8 AMG sound!!! Aaaargh... |
Get the 507! Just put remote start on it and it will be nice and frosty when you get in.
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Originally Posted by TRAKCAR
(Post 11393415)
Took wifey to show M3 and order one, but we delayed till spring for ED.
We did look a C63, but even though we loved it better than M3 it's an old model so unless massive discount better buy M3 and do DE. We were both shocked; sounds awesome much more room than my CL and we are both tall and she loved the look inside and out. Inside is old, she has a new 535 but it did not turn her off. Without ED option I would take a C63 if discounted enough. I'm even thinking of trading my CL for a '10 CL63 non turbo of course.. |
Originally Posted by kosmo
(Post 11399099)
ED= Electronic Diff or Erectile Dysfunction? :D
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Originally Posted by Dude-
(Post 10689783)
Looks awesome. The color is very fitting to differentiate itself from the pack. With Standard colors, it'll look plain. Rear wheels must be massive for this beast to stay on the road.
BMWs.. leasing okay; buying not so. |
Originally Posted by TRAKCAR
(Post 11395336)
Get the 507! Just put remote start on it and it will be nice and frosty when you get in.
When the GT3 finally returns, the garage is complete! jumper: |
Originally Posted by TomTom77
(Post 11406699)
I drove the 507. Loved the engine power and sound, the rest (interior, seating position, gearbox) not so much. Plus my wife prefers the looks of the M3 inside and out. So M3 it is. I'll take delivery of mine tomorrow. And the Sales Manager at the dealership knows he owes me, so I'm pretty sure he'll take care good care of me in the future.
When the GT3 finally returns, the garage is complete! jumper: Please don't forget us when you take pictures/videos/etc. I'd much rather read your impressions here than at bimmerpost as that place is crawling with trolls. Anyway, congrats! |
Originally Posted by frayed
(Post 11086426)
If the GT3 at 150k is too rich but the bimmers hit your happy place then buy one. Comparing it to a GT3 and relishing in the bargain factor is just mental gymnastics to make yourself feel better every time you give a point by.
GT3 is in a different class altogether--no one buys a GT3 for practical reasons (back seat, trunk space, DD capability, etc.)--and comparing to M3/4 by using a value argument is apples and oranges. |
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Here it is... driving reviews will follow shortly, my wife is running it in the coming weeks.
Sure, it doesn't compare to the GT3, even though my M3 is 77% of my GT3s price over here. But still, first impressions are great. And I forgot about the money already... Now when will that Akrapovic become available? Not that the sound is that bad at the moment, but this will transform it, as it always does! :rockon: |
Originally Posted by TomTom77
(Post 11408993)
Here it is... driving reviews will follow shortly, my wife is running it in the coming weeks.
Sure, it doesn't compare to the GT3, even though my M3 is 77% of my GT3s price over here. But still, first impressions are great. And I forgot about the money already... Now when will that Akrapovic become available? Not that the sound is that bad at the moment, but this will transform it, as it always does! :rockon: |
Originally Posted by SamFromTX
(Post 11409028)
Awesome. Did you get to drive the i8? Not in the US yet but soon.
Me, I'll enjoy the 100% petrol-engine for as long I can... but if this is the future, I guess it ain't too bad. |
Originally Posted by TomTom77
(Post 11408993)
Here it is... driving reviews will follow shortly, my wife is running it in the coming weeks.
Sure, it doesn't compare to the GT3, even though my M3 is 77% of my GT3s price over here. But still, first impressions are great. And I forgot about the money already... Now when will that Akrapovic become available? Not that the sound is that bad at the moment, but this will transform it, as it always does! :rockon: |
Originally Posted by TomTom77
(Post 11409256)
No, unfortunately not yet, this one isn't allowed to be driven, nor sold. The looks are great (although I'd prefer it in white), it really looks like it came back from the future (and very similar to the car showcased in Mission Impossible 3 years ago) when seen next to a normal BMW. You have to give them kudos for that, whether you like the concept or not.
Me, I'll enjoy the 100% petrol-engine for as long I can... but if this is the future, I guess it ain't too bad. |
Beautiful wife. Beautiful car. Well done!
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Congrats! Beautiful.
You may want to give a thought to the akra on these turbo cars. There are zero gains to be had and I haven't been impressed with the akra sound on the Fx ///M cars. Eisenmann gets the nod in my completely subjective opinion :D |
Originally Posted by fbirch
(Post 11410116)
Beautiful wife. Beautiful car. Well done!
Originally Posted by SamFromTX
(Post 11410016)
I agree the future is heading that way so I'm on the list for the i8 too but got on it a bit late (20 something-th), won't get one until they sort out all the new gremlins. Heck, I'm not on any forum for this car and they could be burning right and left and I'd have no clue. I like it that way, not in a rush for that one.
Originally Posted by Hoopumpers
(Post 11410260)
Congrats! Beautiful.
You may want to give a thought to the akra on these turbo cars. There are zero gains to be had and I haven't been impressed with the akra sound on the Fx ///M cars. Eisenmann gets the nod in my completely subjective opinion :D |
Love this blue on M3. Congrats. Keep the pictures coming please.
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Wow, Tom. Looks great and more importantly, momma looks happy!
Yas Marina Blue seems like it has too much metallic in it to photograph well. Do you agree? I'm glad I picked that color (my F82 is in Baltimore, btw) but I'm not sure any pictures convey it accurately. Keep the pictures coming! :cheers: |
Can't wait to hear impressions on the M3!
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Originally Posted by redleg321
(Post 11410417)
Wow, Tom. Looks great and more importantly, momma looks happy!
Yas Marina Blue seems like it has too much metallic in it to photograph well. Do you agree? I'm glad I picked that color (my F82 is in Baltimore, btw) but I'm not sure any pictures convey it accurately. Keep the pictures coming! :cheers: From a distance, it looks non-metallic. Up closer, you can very clearly see the metallic, even some pearl-like effects in it. Bottom-line: in the land of white, black and silver cars, it stands out nicely. And it suits the car well, IMHO... |
Nice M3 Tom! Up until a year ago I had an e46 (2003) M3 convertible. It was a great car. now that the weather here is getting better I'm missing it more and more each sunny day... We don't get as many sunny days in NH as you do in Dubai :D
I would certainly be interested in your driving impressions. If things don't work out with the Cayman GT4, the M4 is also pretty high on my list. -nh4. |
Nice little intro from the "AP" of Bmw
http://youtu.be/arpQy4V9_iA He claims 180lbs were cut but i doubt it. |
Originally Posted by kosmo
(Post 11445437)
Nice little intro from the "AP" of Bmw
http://youtu.be/arpQy4V9_iA He claims 180lbs were cut but i doubt it. |
I bet when comparing weight "loss" they compared it to the last gen w/ ALL options and a new gen stripped except the CCB of course.
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Originally Posted by kosmo
(Post 11446026)
I bet when comparing weight "loss" they compared it to the last gen w/ ALL options and a new gen stripped except the CCB of course.
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Originally Posted by 0Q991
(Post 11447746)
For a car at the m3/4's price point, I wonder how many folks will pony up for an $8k+ CCB option.
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Originally Posted by GrantG
(Post 11447775)
From what I gather on the BMW boards, people seem much more enthusiastic about the option than buyers of Cayman/Boxster (which cost similar for car and PCCB options). Maybe because the speed/weight of the M3 is going to tax the standard brakes more than with the Porsches.
-Tim |
No, doesn't cover it (unless a defect)
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why not? have you seen those Bimmer ads? "covers everything including brakes"
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The maintenance cycle for the Ceramic brakes is probably not normally within 3 years/50K. In my experience (I've owned 3 M3s now), they will cover the first set of pads and rotors for steels, but beyond that they consider it abnormal wear and tear, so they have not covered. If their expectation is that ceramics should not require maintenance in that period, then they are unlikely to cover them.
A counter point to that is that they covered all maintenance cycles on my E46 as the car requested. This meant that I got 4 major services (valve adjustments) instead of 2 - first time ever in Texas according to their regional rep. Thier maintenance program counted fuel usage to gauge service intervals. |
Originally Posted by ShakeNBake
(Post 11448982)
The maintenance cycle for the Ceramic brakes is probably not normally within 3 years/50K. In my experience (I've owned 3 M3s now), they will cover the first set of pads and rotors for steels, but beyond that they consider it abnormal wear and tear, so they have not covered. If their expectation is that ceramics should not require maintenance in that period, then they are unlikely to cover them. A counter point to that is that they covered all maintenance cycles on my E46 as the car requested. This meant that I got 4 major services (valve adjustments) instead of 2 - first time ever in Texas according to their regional rep. Thier maintenance program counted fuel usage to gauge service intervals.
Maintenance plan is 4 years / 50k. If even one set of rotors is covered--I'm sure folks would be much more comfortable tracking with CCB if they know that their 8k option doesn't carry a 20k replacement cost for rotors... |
My local ///M master tech and head of BMWCCA chapter who is a track junkie says they will cover them. Still, I would believe it when I see it. As with a lot of service behavior, it probably depends on your local shop
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I think the M division has finally reached a healthy direction :
BMW M to Focus on Weight Reduction - Not Power http://www.carbuzz.com/news/2014/6/1...-Power-7720924 I mean,where will the " horsepower war " take us? Where will it end? |
Originally Posted by neanicu
(Post 11449222)
I think the M division has finally reached a healthy direction : BMW M to Focus on Weight Reduction - Not Power http://www.carbuzz.com/news/2014/6/1...-Power-7720924 I mean,where will the " horsepower war " take us? Where will it end?
They have a lead in the mass production manufacture of carbon fiber and carbon fiber reinforced plastics--weight reduction for all models. That also positions them well to meet / beat all MPG standards. Lightweight cars and experience in hybrid and electric power trains--plus a portfolio of motorcycle and automotive engines to use as range extenders, to quell range anxiety. |
Originally Posted by neanicu
(Post 11449222)
I think the M division has finally reached a healthy direction :
BMW M to Focus on Weight Reduction - Not Power http://www.carbuzz.com/news/2014/6/1...-Power-7720924 I mean,where will the " horsepower war " take us? Where will it end? Unfortunately for all BMW's noise about big weight reduction on the new M3, it doesn't appear to have happened. Interesting Q&A with Gordan Murray. Nice to know we share the same priorities. http://grrc.goodwood.com/road/news/q...ers-hadnt-come |
Originally Posted by GrantG
(Post 11447775)
From what I gather on the BMW boards, people seem much more enthusiastic about the option than buyers of Cayman/Boxster (which cost similar for car and PCCB options). Maybe because the speed/weight of the M3 is going to tax the standard brakes more than with the Porsches.
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Originally Posted by rave426
(Post 11411090)
Can't wait to hear impressions on the M3!
there that's my impression of an M3! :roflmao: |
Originally Posted by Larry Cable
(Post 11449329)
Lets face it BMW brakes are bordering on worthless on the track after about 1 lap ... so perhaps the M-ophiles are going with CCB in the hope that they might cure this achilles heel?
I'll be driving the M3/M4 on the nordschleife in 2 weeks and will report back with opinions. |
I've done 1,200 km of the 2k km running in period. Have the standard brakes. Will report an update shortly...
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Originally Posted by Hoopumpers
(Post 11449361)
I drove BMW CCBs at COTA and they were brilliant. Absolutely brilliant. Must have option if I were to buy one of these things. The turbo engines are just so lacking in personality, which is hard to get past.
I'll be driving the M3/M4 on the nordschleife in 2 weeks and will report back with opinions. have fun at the schleife - have a bier (or two) for me at the Pistenklause ... you doing the M Farhrer training? p.s curious if the M traction control on the new car still sucks the power out of the car on the exit of Ex-Muhle ... |
Originally Posted by Larry Cable
(Post 11449329)
Lets face it BMW brakes are bordering on worthless on the track after about 1 lap ... so perhaps the M-ophiles are going with CCB in the hope that they might cure this achilles heel?
Finally ditched those steel 1-piston floating calipers (which even the current M5/M6 use, even if you opt for Carbon rotors). |
Originally Posted by GrantG
(Post 11449579)
The standard steel brakes on M3/M4 are serious multi-piston Brembos at all corners now with large steel rotors on aluminum hats in front.
Finally ditched those steel 1-piston floating calipers (which even the current M5/M6 use, even if you opt for Carbon rotors). |
Originally Posted by Hoopumpers
(Post 11449361)
I drove BMW CCBs at COTA and they were brilliant. Absolutely brilliant. Must have option if I were to buy one of these things. The turbo engines are just so lacking in personality, which is hard to get past.
I'll be driving the M3/M4 on the nordschleife in 2 weeks and will report back with opinions. |
Test drove a dct m4 yesterday. The salesperson wouldn't let me rev it too high but here's my initial thoughts.
Very comfortable interior Seemed to handle, grip pretty well Decent torque, power in higher rpms Sound department is lacking, severely Dct is still clunky in low gears - ex: coming to a stop Overall would like to try the manual version, guessing would be a pretty civilized daily driver and fun to push from time to time. |
faster than a Cayman S on that short track?!!
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Forgot to mention. The paddles should be about 3 times larger. Tough to find as they are.
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Originally Posted by kosmo
(Post 11467559)
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I much as a like the Cayman S (PDK) its under powered and honestly boring...
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Originally Posted by Hoopumpers
(Post 11449361)
I'll be driving the M3/M4 on the nordschleife in 2 weeks and will report back with opinions.
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Originally Posted by nash
(Post 11468501)
I will see you there, I am in your group of 8 :)
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Originally Posted by Larry Cable
(Post 11468509)
What school?
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Originally Posted by TRAKCAR
(Post 11467225)
Look forward to your review. Will do ED next summer either my Porsche or Wife's M3.
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Originally Posted by nash
(Post 11468516)
The BMW M4 Nordschleife experience
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2 Attachment(s)
Well so far she is just something all new compared to previous M3's. I'm absolutely loving it!
I hope you're enjoying her as much as I am, Tom! Attachment 1361493 Attachment 1361494 |
sweet color!
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Originally Posted by redleg321
(Post 11479342)
Well so far she is just something all new compared to previous M3's. I'm absolutely loving it!
I hope you're enjoying her as much as I am, Tom! https://i.imgur.com/EODQ6H6.jpg https://i.imgur.com/6JnzqfA.jpg |
Drove Austin Yellow M4 today. Didn't get a chance to push handling but it was surprisingly similar to E92 in terms of ride and feel at normal road speed. Actually sounds more like an 8 than a 6 from inside. The extra torque was a big plus. Interior, seating position, etc. all good. Rev matching made for smooth, easy-peasy downshifts. Spec'd with base suspension, which was perfectly fine for daily driving.
Dealer has 2 M3's and 2 M4's pre-sold; all four customers ordered manual trans. Guess there are more "luddites" out there than the haters realize. Keeping my M3 order. |
Originally Posted by Nizer
(Post 11479715)
Drove Austin Yellow M4 today. Didn't get a chance to push handling but it was surprisingly similar to E92 in terms of ride and feel at normal road speed. Actually sounds more like an 8 than a 6 from inside. The extra torque was a big plus. Interior, seating position, etc. all good. Rev matching made for smooth, easy-peasy downshifts. Spec'd with base suspension, which was perfectly fine for daily driving. Dealer has 2 M3's and 2 M4's pre-sold; all four customers ordered manual trans. Guess there are more "luddites" out there than the haters realize. Keeping my M3 order.
Signed : Yours truly, Hater. ;) Glad you liked it! |
Originally Posted by Nizer
(Post 11479715)
Drove Austin Yellow M4 today. Didn't get a chance to push handling but it was surprisingly similar to E92 in terms of ride and feel at normal road speed. Actually sounds more like an 8 than a 6 from inside. The extra torque was a big plus. Interior, seating position, etc. all good. Rev matching made for smooth, easy-peasy downshifts. Spec'd with base suspension, which was perfectly fine for daily driving.
Dealer has 2 M3's and 2 M4's pre-sold; all four customers ordered manual trans. Guess there are more "luddites" out there than the haters realize. Keeping my M3 order. |
No doubt - because it certainly doesn't sound like an 8 from the outside!
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Originally Posted by neanicu
(Post 11479742)
Why would they order old technology is beyond me?! DCT is fantastic!! BMW needs to get with the program and drop the manual tranny if they want to compete with the big dogs.
Signed : Yours truly, Hater. ;) Glad you liked it!
Originally Posted by Larry Cable
(Post 11479743)
You must have had the stereo turned up to "11" :)
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Originally Posted by Alan Smithee
(Post 11479775)
No doubt - because it certainly doesn't sound like an 8 from the outside!
"Wow, from the inside, your M3 sounds just like a 458..." :D |
[QUOTE=Nizer;11479825]Ha. Dealer was totally clued into the manual debate. They actually spec'd the car with manual because they keep hearing from customers that they like BMW because it's one of the few manufacturers still offering manual in their top-end cars.
WOW!
Originally Posted by Nizer
(Post 11479825)
Yeah, I know. Stereo was actually off but the sound coming in the cabin is clearly not forced air straight six.
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[QUOTE=Larry Cable;11479842]
Originally Posted by Nizer
(Post 11479825)
Ha. Dealer was totally clued into the manual debate. They actually spec'd the car with manual because they keep hearing from customers that they like BMW because it's one of the few manufacturers still offering manual in their top-end cars.
WOW! |
Here's an extremely flattering review of the new M3/M4 driven at Spa and the 'Ring. Some doubt about the author's objectivity (best steering ever?), but worth reading:
http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1005166 |
Sorry, he lost me in the first paragraph at: "there is no longer any reason to keep a dedicated track car". Done. No more reading necessary.
I'll be putting the M4 on the nordschleife next week. Looking forward to it. |
Originally Posted by Hoopumpers
(Post 11480570)
Sorry, he lost me in the first paragraph at: "there is no longer any reason to keep a dedicated track car". Done. No more reading necessary.
I'll be putting the M4 on the nordschleife next week. Looking forward to it. some drive on track but not track driving. though the new m3/4 seem interesting. i may go flog one at dealer if they let me. |
Originally Posted by Hoopumpers
(Post 11480570)
Sorry, he lost me in the first paragraph at: "there is no longer any reason to keep a dedicated track car". Done. No more reading necessary.
I'll be putting the M4 on the nordschleife next week. Looking forward to it. My M3 should get back from it's 2k running-in service today, so I can start driving it properly now. Will report back soon. I did already find out that, due to the huge torque, it's very easy to throw its tail around even staying well below the 5k RPM running-in limit... |
2 Attachment(s)
Good car, better than my previous E90 M3 DD. Doing the pretzel and wurst tour now with it. I think this will be the best DD ever for me. The torque is bonkers and she's not the land yacht the M5 is.
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Love the grey!
I got to poke around the M3 and M4 for the first time last weekend at Goodwood, and really started to fall for it. Then I saw Tiff Needell thrash one up the hillclimb with more than average Tiff Needell hooniganism. As much fun as it looked, aside from the sound of shredding tires it was the quietest car besides the Tesla, and the faux engine noise is a dealbreaker for me. Wish they had kept the lovely sounding V8! I would happily trade some torque to have it back... Enjoy your ED trip! |
Originally Posted by Alan Smithee
(Post 11480689)
Love the grey!
I got to poke around the M3 and M4 for the first time last weekend at Goodwood, and really started to fall for it. Then I saw Tiff Needell thrash one up the hillclimb with more than average Tiff Needell hooniganism. As much fun as it looked, aside from the sound of shredding tires it was the quietest car besides the Tesla, and the faux engine noise is a dealbreaker for me. Wish they had kept the lovely sounding V8! I would happily trade some torque to have it back... Enjoy your ED trip! |
Originally Posted by GrantG
(Post 11480532)
Here's an extremely flattering review of the new M3/M4 driven at Spa and the 'Ring. Some doubt about the author's objectivity (best steering ever?), but worth reading:
http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1005166
Originally Posted by Alan Smithee
(Post 11480689)
Love the grey!
I got to poke around the M3 and M4 for the first time last weekend at Goodwood, and really started to fall for it. Then I saw Tiff Needell thrash one up the hillclimb with more than average Tiff Needell hooniganism. As much fun as it looked, aside from the sound of shredding tires it was the quietest car besides the Tesla, and the faux engine noise is a dealbreaker for me. Wish they had kept the lovely sounding V8! I would happily trade some torque to have it back... Enjoy your ED trip!
Originally Posted by TomTom77
(Post 11480697)
Correct, the sound isn't great, but wasn't a deal-breaker for me. IMO, it needs the full Akrapovic exhaust, which is due to arrive in September. It transformed the sound of my 1M (added 10 HP, but the great sound, pops and bangs make you feel like it added 50) and I'm confident it'll do the same with the M3.
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Originally Posted by Nizer
(Post 11480784)
Then you'll just need to find a way to deactivate the "active" sound piped into the cabin.
But I'm pretty confident it can be done. And the Sales Manager is on it for me. With a bit of luck, I get rid of the fake sound before the new proper sounds arrives. |
I'd be really curious to hear this car with an AM exhaust. I think the sound can be " fixed ". If you don't mind,post a sound clip after you've changed the exhaust.
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Originally Posted by TomTom77
(Post 11480806)
Correct, I started that process already. The answer that I got today was the dealership cannot overwrite that module themselves, but need a overriding module change from BMW AG for that. Just taking out the relevant fuse will do the trick, but has rather substantial side-effects (killing stereo and parking distance sounds).
But I'm pretty confident it can be done. And the Sales Manager is on it for me. With a bit of luck, I get rid of the fake sound before the new proper sounds arrives. |
Watch from 2:42 min. |
"If ten year olds could drive they would love this." Classic.
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The reviewer referenced above is a pro-am German racer fwiw. Stock sound is not bad, for a turbo. Here's the car w/Akrapovic but not under load.
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the old 335 IS had a good note. I wonder why this doesnt sound as good?
Looking forward to a test drive. |
Thanks for posting. It sounds better but not great IMO. But then again,I like loud.
This will do it! :) |
Originally Posted by GrantG
(Post 11480532)
Here's an extremely flattering review of the new M3/M4 driven at Spa and the 'Ring. Some doubt about the author's objectivity (best steering ever?), but worth reading:
http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1005166
Originally Posted by Hoopumpers
(Post 11480570)
Sorry, he lost me in the first paragraph at: "there is no longer any reason to keep a dedicated track car". Done. No more reading necessary.
I'll be putting the M4 on the nordschleife next week. Looking forward to it.
Originally Posted by mooty
(Post 11480606)
concur.
some drive on track but not track driving. though the new m3/4 seem interesting. i may go flog one at dealer if they let me. |
[deleted]
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Surprising how track focused and enjoyable the m4 is vs the rs5 in this great comparo... And 3 seconds faster on a 1min lap isn't bad!! |
Originally Posted by CAlexio
(Post 11482555)
Video Link: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-Yjg0_l6Xk4&autoplay=1 Surprising how track focused and enjoyable the m4 is vs the rs5 in this great comparo... And 3 seconds faster on a 1min lap isn't bad!!
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Originally Posted by Guest89
(Post 11481232)
Reviewer is a member here under a different name (I believe). Lives in Augusta, GA and has a .2 RS as well. Surprised he didn't make a comparison to that car.
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Originally Posted by mooty
(Post 11483043)
i wonder which car he tracks?
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Faster than Cayman S and probably costs less as spec'd. Impressive.
One other comment from my test drive: I was underwhelmed by the manual. Rev matching worked well, but the shifter throws were longish and soft feeling. The clutch pedal was overly light for my tastes and it felt like they were still using the dreaded CDV to smooth shifts for those that can't drive a manual properly. All fixable but just surprising that it didn't have more of that rifle-bolt RS feel. |
The forums have figured out how to turn off the piped-in engine sound. For anyone interested search for member pillpusher on M3post.com, he sells a $20 cable and will recode remotely.
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Here is an interesting comparison among the new M4, previous M3 V8, and 1M Coupe:
http://www.bimmerfile.com/2014/06/23...e92-m3-and-1m/ |
Good read, thx for posting
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V8 baby
http://youtu.be/rMRlbxmQ-M4 |
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Some good but not any glowing.
Still if youre looking for a sporty sedan w a stick the options are limited. |
Originally Posted by Nizer
(Post 11483305)
One other comment from my test drive: I was underwhelmed by the manual. Rev matching worked well, but the shifter throws were longish and soft feeling. The clutch pedal was overly light for my tastes and it felt like they were still using the dreaded CDV to smooth shifts for those that can't drive a manual properly. All fixable but just surprising that it didn't have more of that rifle-bolt RS feel.
Originally Posted by GrantG
(Post 11488053)
Here is an interesting comparison among the new M4, previous M3 V8, and 1M Coupe:
http://www.bimmerfile.com/2014/06/23...e92-m3-and-1m/ |
Originally Posted by Petevb
(Post 11492510)
Preference... To me the RS feels a bit too heavy and notchy, and some complaint the clutch is artificially heavy as well. The 993 RS and 993 GT2 shifters are less notchy, longer and lighter, but to me felt nearly perfect. Depends a lot on what you're coming from...
Regardless, wasn't impressed with the M4 manual other than the rev matching. And interesting that the article also commented on the very light clutch pedal. Heavy duty clutch and short-shift kit could likely solve my key complaints. |
Originally Posted by Nizer
(Post 11492540)
Agree for normal street driving, but for track RS is perfect IMO.
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This is fun:
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Originally Posted by Petevb
(Post 11492589)
I've heard there is considerable disagreement about tuning of the shift feel even within Porsche itself. And it was one thing Gordan Murray was never perfectly happy with on the production F1. Another subjective rather than objective problem...
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For what it's worth I have an M4 for a week-long test drive and I'll share a few thoughts.
It's a looker. Mean looking, neat details, muscular. Massive brake discs with big drilled holes are impressive. Interior is nice. I don't love some of the shapes but it's well made. Too many electronic doodads for me. HUD, big screen with iDrive, lane departure, adjust the throttle, adjust the steering, etc...etc... I prefer the simplicity of the GT3 cabin and driver interface. Ride quality isn't any better than GT3. Might be a bit more harsh but stiffness is comparable. As is cabin noise IMHO. I think the engine sounds OK. More V8 sound than ripping-silk classic inline six. No question it has LOTS of shove. Definitely a lot more bottom end than GT3. Pulls like an OHV V8. I can't say there's much in the way of noticeable lag. Manual shifter is devoid of feel or notchiness. Clutch has no weight at all. Like an arcade game. I'd imagine this car is much better with the double-clutch gearbox. Lastly, not a sports car IMHO so I'd rather the M3 and have the rear door and useable back seat. For $60-$70K though it's a neat package. |
Originally Posted by LastMezger
(Post 11494209)
I think the engine sounds OK. More V8 sound than ripping-silk classic inline six. No question it has LOTS of shove. Definitely a lot more bottom end than GT3. Pulls like an OHV V8. I can't say there's much in the way of noticeable lag. Manual shifter is devoid of feel or notchiness. Clutch has no weight at all. Like an arcade game. I'd imagine this car is much better with the double-clutch gearbox. ....I'd rather the M3 and have the rear door and useable back seat. For $60-$70K though it's a neat package. I have M3 on order and swapped over to the DCT after test drive. Much as I prefer a manual, this one is subpar; as if they tried to take all the manual attributes out of the manual. To put it in perspective, the manual in my E60 535i feels much better than the M4 manual. Too bad but so be it. This will be a (fun) daily driver so losing the manual is not a big concern. |
Originally Posted by Nizer
(Post 11494321)
I have M3 on order and swapped over to the DCT after test drive. Much as I prefer a manual, this one is subpar; as if they tried to take all the manual attributes out of the manual. To put it in perspective, the manual in my E60 535i feels much better than the M4 manual.
Too bad but so be it. This will be a (fun) daily driver so losing the manual is not a big concern. |
Nizer,I'm surprised you've ordered DCT. While I haven't driven the M4,I can say the feel of the stock shifter in my E46 M3 wasn't great either. Nothing an SSK from Autosolutions can't solve. With a 40% reduced throw it made it precise. I'm pretty sure you can do the same in the M4. I'd do the shifter and exhaust for sure if I'd order the M4. I would never order a double clutch as long as manual is offered,that's for sure!
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ah man buzzkill! i was so looking forward to a stick. blimey
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Originally Posted by Petevb
(Post 11494414)
Ouch. I'll need to try one soon. When the manual is offered and guys don't order it... it's quite possible it'll be the last of its breed. Shame- BMW made the M5 manual crap as well, so it's almost a foregone conclusion. We'll see.
Should also note that other than the manual criticisms and the fake sound, which apparently can be deactivated, it's a monster car and great value. |
Originally Posted by neanicu
(Post 11494446)
Nizer,I'm surprised you've ordered DCT. While I haven't driven the M4,I can say the feel of the stock shifter in my E46 M3 wasn't great either. Nothing an SSK from Autosolutions can't solve. With a 40% reduced throw it made it precise. I'm pretty sure you can do the same in the M4. I'd do the shifter and exhaust for sure if I'd order the M4. I would never order a double clutch as long as manual is offered,that's for sure!
- another issue encountered was occasional rattling/jangle when clutch was disengaged. Can't come up with better description and don't know the cause but I will say the same thing happened in manual trans E90 M3 that I drove frequently. So seems either inherent to M manuals or my shifting style (don't tend to rush or bang shifts). - as stated in earlier post, I trust all/most issues could be addressed via aftermarket solutions. But I have no interest in modding $70k daily driver. - contrary to what some on the forum believe, I'm not anti-DCT/PDK. just anti lack of choice ;) - if it felt anywhere near to GT3 manual it would be a no-brainer. |
Originally Posted by Petevb
(Post 11494414)
Ouch. I'll need to try one soon. When the manual is offered and guys don't order it... it's quite possible it'll be the last of its breed. Shame- BMW made the M5 manual crap as well, so it's almost a foregone conclusion. We'll see.
Originally Posted by neanicu
(Post 11494446)
Nizer,I'm surprised you've ordered DCT. While I haven't driven the M4,I can say the feel of the stock shifter in my E46 M3 wasn't great either. Nothing an SSK from Autosolutions can't solve. With a 40% reduced throw it made it precise. I'm pretty sure you can do the same in the M4. I'd do the shifter and exhaust for sure if I'd order the M4. I would never order a double clutch as long as manual is offered,that's for sure!
I love manual transmissions - and have driven them exclusively since age 16 in my own cars - but I would be driving both versions of the M3/4 before placing an order, likely for DCT. |
Originally Posted by Nizer
(Post 11494539)
Couple of thoughts: - another issue encountered was occasional rattling/jangle when clutch was disengaged. Can't come up with better description and don't know the cause but I will say the same thing happened in manual trans E90 M3 that I drove frequently. So seems either inherent to M manuals or my shifting style (don't tend to rush or bang shifts). - as stated in earlier post, I trust all/most issues could be addressed via aftermarket solutions. But I have no interest in modding $70k daily driver. - contrary to what some on the forum believe, I'm not anti-DCT/PDK. just anti lack of choice ;) - if it felt anywhere near to GT3 manual it would be a no-brainer.
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As an addendum to my remarks on M4 test drive the other day. I've been in the car for 3 days now and the shifter and clutch are growing on me. I guess it was the stark contrast in feel from the GT3 that made them feel so lame. Now I could live with them.
That is all. |
1 Attachment(s)
A few updated notes on my F82 M4 after nearly a month:
- Throttle sensitivity in Sport+ has the transient response of most all-motor sports cars so you won't miss response, but you'll miss a linear climb of power like an NA motor. Those turbo's spin to 120k in a fraction of a second and since the motor produces truck-torque so low, Sport+ is almost too sensitive for normal driving. On a track it is exactly what you need for mid-corner slip adjustments but I normally just leave it on Sport. Efficient is nice at parking lot speeds and not much else. - Steering is good in Comfort for my taste. Sport+ is way too heavy. Sport is probably the sweet spot for spirited driving - Gearbox is wonderful. Zero problems and extremely well calibrated for normal daily driving. Hard driving is easy and the harshest setting, like Sport+ throttle, is very responsive and almost too much for a public road. I switch to mid-harsh on the gearbox, at most. - Leather is Merino and it is very, very comfortable. Softer than nappa and could turn out to be a durability problem if one selects the lighter colors like Silverstone. I have Black Extended leather. The full leather option is probably worth it to take it to the P-car level of quality. - I counted something like 70 buttons on the interior. M1 and M2 buttons must be programmed otherwise you'll crash trying to adjust to your driving style. Even with that, though, there is an overabundance of buttons but at least they're intuitive and placed well. - The brakes scrub off speed at a surprising rate. I have a video of me braking from 118MPH down to about 60MPH very quickly and the tail lights didn't even indicate hard brakeforce. I have steel brakes. The feel is fantastic and I have no clue what the bottom half of the pedal even feels like. I have had no need to use it yet, even with a few passes at a drag strip (yes, I violated my break-in. not proud of it but I could not resist). Michelin Pilot Super Sports probably ought to receive some credit for this, though. - Adaptive LED lights are a $1900 option and while it's a bit steep, it's worth it. Driving at night with them on is a joy to me. Just absurd how well they simulate daylight ahead and quickly respond to conditions. Does it sound nice? Meh... I'm not enamored with the sound like I am with that of an E92, C6Z or 991. It sounds good, but nothing to write home about, IMO. All in all, the car is a rocket and will trap 118MPH in the 1/4 mile without launching it. She is quiet and comfortable, yet very easily changes to an aggressive character that I'm sure any petrol head would enjoy. At its price and for what it provides on road and on track, I recommended it for sure. A quick snap from the other day. Attachment 1361398 |
thanks for the review 118 1/4 mile trap is very impressive
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I've had one for a month as well and think it's a blast. No argument with above assessment.
Lot of car for the money, perfect daily driver. |
Originally Posted by redleg321
(Post 11499006)
- Gearbox is wonderful. Zero problems and extremely well calibrated for normal daily driving. Hard driving is easy and the harshest setting, like Sport+ throttle, is very responsive and almost too much for a public road. I switch to mid-harsh on the gearbox, at most. |
Originally Posted by redleg321
(Post 11499006)
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Originally Posted by CAlexio
(Post 11499909)
and amazingly... you didn't have get special blessing from the pope, or pay $5500 for that color. :icon501:
Originally Posted by Nizer
(Post 11499836)
Manual or DCT? I'm guessing the latter based on comments but just wanted to confirm.
Not that I wouldn't pay for PTS. Mexico Blue 991 GT3's won't stop haunting me so I will have to fork out the cash. :cheers: |
1 Attachment(s)
Originally Posted by redleg321
(Post 11499006)
A few updated notes on my F82 M4 after nearly a month:
- Throttle sensitivity in Sport+ has the transient response of most all-motor sports cars so you won't miss response, but you'll miss a linear climb of power like an NA motor. Those turbo's spin to 120k in a fraction of a second and since the motor produces truck-torque so low, Sport+ is almost too sensitive for normal driving. On a track it is exactly what you need for mid-corner slip adjustments but I normally just leave it on Sport. Efficient is nice at parking lot speeds and not much else. - Steering is good in Comfort for my taste. Sport+ is way too heavy. Sport is probably the sweet spot for spirited driving - Gearbox is wonderful. Zero problems and extremely well calibrated for normal daily driving. Hard driving is easy and the harshest setting, like Sport+ throttle, is very responsive and almost too much for a public road. I switch to mid-harsh on the gearbox, at most. - Leather is Merino and it is very, very comfortable. Softer than nappa and could turn out to be a durability problem if one selects the lighter colors like Silverstone. I have Black Extended leather. The full leather option is probably worth it to take it to the P-car level of quality. - I counted something like 70 buttons on the interior. M1 and M2 buttons must be programmed otherwise you'll crash trying to adjust to your driving style. Even with that, though, there is an overabundance of buttons but at least they're intuitive and placed well. - The brakes scrub off speed at a surprising rate. I have a video of me braking from 118MPH down to about 60MPH very quickly and the tail lights didn't even indicate hard brakeforce. I have steel brakes. The feel is fantastic and I have no clue what the bottom half of the pedal even feels like. I have had no need to use it yet, even with a few passes at a drag strip (yes, I violated my break-in. not proud of it but I could not resist). Michelin Pilot Super Sports probably ought to receive some credit for this, though. - Adaptive LED lights are a $1900 option and while it's a bit steep, it's worth it. Driving at night with them on is a joy to me. Just absurd how well they simulate daylight ahead and quickly respond to conditions. Does it sound nice? Meh... I'm not enamored with the sound like I am with that of an E92, C6Z or 991. It sounds good, but nothing to write home about, IMO. All in all, the car is a rocket and will trap 118MPH in the 1/4 mile without launching it. She is quiet and comfortable, yet very easily changes to an aggressive character that I'm sure any petrol head would enjoy. At its price and for what it provides on road and on track, I recommended it for sure. We've done about 3k km now. What I do like is that the car becomes a lot nicer to drive (as if it settles in its preferred manners) when driven hard. That proves to me that it's still a sports car at heart! I don't like the fact that the MDM allows virtually no play from the rear. My 1M gives you a lot more freedom in that mode. So the M3 is now set at TC OFF in my M-mode. With the longer wheelbase and epic differential, the tail is very easy to control anyway. A lot easier than the 1M, that's for sure. I can't wait to take it up to our mountain roads (below) when the temperature starts dropping. Three lanes wide, plenty of hairpins and no other traffic. Note to self: order new rear tires before departure! |
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TomTom77- Oh my!!! - are those roads in pretty good shape?? How much fun would that be??
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Would love to hear from someone who has spent substantial time tracking this car hard.
And if the Super Sports are tailored to the car, I wonder how the handling of the car would be affected by using different tires, including R comps. |
I wonder how much these "BMW spec" tires will last and cost?
"Michelin played with the architecture and the compound of the Pilot Super Sport tires to fit the M car's needs. That's typical among manufactures. What isn't so typical is that the M3 wears different front and rear tires—both tread pattern and contact-patch shape are different. When viewed in section, the front tire meets the road as an oval, which allows for more progressive tire slip while turning. The rear tires create a rectangular contact patch, allowing better bite into the road. " |
Originally Posted by kosmo
(Post 11506718)
I wonder how much these "BMW spec" tires will last and cost?
"Michelin played with the architecture and the compound of the Pilot Super Sport tires to fit the M car's needs. That's typical among manufactures. What isn't so typical is that the M3 wears different front and rear tires—both tread pattern and contact-patch shape are different. When viewed in section, the front tire meets the road as an oval, which allows for more progressive tire slip while turning. The rear tires create a rectangular contact patch, allowing better bite into the road. " |
Carlos seems to approve. 118 trap speed is pretty good and IIRC its faster than a 991S.
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Originally Posted by Jimmy-D
(Post 11506587)
TomTom77- Oh my!!! - are those roads in pretty good shape?? How much fun would that be??
Downside is that heavy rain (yes, we do have that from time to time) causes rock slides which requires the roads to be redone. That has happened multiple times already. And the lack of normal traffic (most traffic is construction related) leaves the surface covered in pebbles, dust and sand in many places. Overall: the upsides beats the downsides easily. It's epic. The road will lead to a hotel later on (to be constructed), which will increase traffic flow big time. And hence make it less attractive. So we enjoy it as much as we can as long as it's empty... but we've got plenty back-ups in the neighborhood! |
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These numbers sound pretty high. Link at the bottom to MotorAuthority article with pulls more inline with expectations.
http://blog.caranddriver.com/2015-bm...numbers-video/ If there’s one thing you need to know about automotive dynamometers, it’s that no two are likely to ever return the same number. No matter how closely calibrated, if you run the same car on two separate dynos, you’re going to get different output figures. Still, the variations aren’t typically huge—which is why European Auto Source’s dyno pull with a 2015 BMW M3 is so impressive. EAS strapped an M3 to its dyno and recorded an absurd 424 horsepower and 426 lb-ft of torque—at the wheels. BMW claims that the M3 produces 425 horsepower and 406 lb-ft at the crank. Accounting for the typical 15 percent driveline losses from friction, etc., this means the 2015 M3 is really putting down something in the neighborhood of 480 horsepower and 480 lb-ft of torque at the crank. Assuming the M3 used for this dyno pull is real, that’s awesome news for future owners of the M3 and its two-door sibling, the M4. MotorAuthority article w/their pulls: http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...t-really-makes |
8 Attachment(s)
Last week I had the honor of joining some //M junkies in a trip to Munich and the Nurburgring for some serious car-guy indulgence. Through some contacts we were given use of four M4's to make our way around the country, and we participated in the BMW M Nordschleife Experience at the Ring from Jul 8-10. Therefore, we got a chance to experience the M4 in both city/autobahn driving and on track in both wet and dry conditions.
I'm a BMW admirer from afar, having never owned one, but driven or track instructed quite a few in the past. This new M4 is really the best //M product I have experienced, and I left thoroughly impressed. It's seriously torquey, and while many turbo motors claim to have "no turbo lag" this comes dangerously close to actually being true in this case. We drove DCT cars exclusively (I would have loved to sample a manual), and I could almost never detect any lag. The car is lively and fun, and I had zero complaints about the steering (electric was a non-issue). It may not be a high-RPM screamer like past //M models, and the power begins to taper off as you approach redline (basically the same story as most turbo cars), but it certainly has a LOT of shove and has pretty linear power delivery. I thought the powertrain was fantastic, and actually appreciated the DCT since I had never set foot at the Ring before and preferred to just flick some paddles rather than attempting to heel-and-toe a foreign car on a foreign track. The M4's ride is excellent, and the chassis feels very solid and planted (we bombed along the autobahn at 180mph at times with no fuss). I think this car can easily compete with others costing $30k more. Even the interior, which often gives away a car's price point, was very nice with quality leather and good technology features. This car certainly makes for an excellent daily driver and part time track toy. A really impressive package all around. A few pictures from the trip. Start off at the BMW factory for a tour: Attachment 1361325 A little Munich history: Attachment 1361326 At the //M studio, home of //M (we saw some cool mules!), where we picked up our steeds as seen out front: Attachment 1361327 Setting off from Munich to Stuttgart for the Porsche museum, then on to the Ring: Attachment 1361328 The Driving Experience fleet awaiting our track time: Attachment 1361329 First day at the Ring is *rainy* but still amazing: Attachment 1361330 Much improved conditions the next day, sun was out by the afternoon: Attachment 1361331 Attachment 1361332 Lastly, video of a lap in the M4. Following our instructor (and Ring Taxi driver) but he is not holding back much at all (once or twice we slow to regroup). Front straight is limited to 100kph. Other than that, we are working the cars hard! A really amazing experience, and I would recommend this to anyone. Our group was full of pretty seasoned track junkies and we all felt we got what we had hoped for and were not being held back as in a typical lead-follow situation. |
awesome!
the M3 is on my short list |
It's starting to really call my name, getting tough to resist.
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Originally Posted by -eztrader-
(Post 11516012)
It's starting to really call my name, getting tough to resist.
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Originally Posted by GrantG
(Post 11516111)
Yeah, Euro Delivery with 7% discount is a pretty enticing offer. Were these cars top speed delimited (180 mph?)
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Originally Posted by 0Q991
(Post 11516136)
Is the 7% discount still in effect? Any models excluded?
http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...erYourBMW.aspx |
i just checked the bmw site. looks like 7% off the m3/4
hmmm interesting. |
Originally Posted by GrantG
(Post 11516209)
New M3/M4 are included in the discount program: http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...erYourBMW.aspx
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Originally Posted by GrantG
(Post 11516111)
Yeah, Euro Delivery with 7% discount is a pretty enticing offer. Were these cars top speed delimited (180 mph?)
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Great info. - I am waiting to see the M2. I would prefer a smaller car to throw around if I decide to get another toy to enjoy next to my GT3
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A more scenic view of the M4 on the Ring (GoPro mounted on the lead car rear glass, pointed at me driving the second car). Definitely watch this in 1080p, weather was perfect!
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nash, whats it like vs the RS? :)
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Originally Posted by kosmo
(Post 11517202)
nash, whats it like vs the RS? :)
At the track, it certainly doesn't have the laser precision of the RS and you don't have the same confidence in the grip (but then, I'd only had a couple days seat time, and the car was on street tires, and it was pouring rain the first day). Once I'd tuned in to the car a little and the conditions improved, I felt really confident in it and was duly impressed. I think it could easily compete as a track car with a 911 (I'm excluding the Turbo/GT cars). You can toss it in to corners with fairly minimal push, the rotation is predictable, and the brakes were great (we had standard brakes with an unknown track pad) - though the car does walk around a bit under extreme braking, standard for most front-engine cars. The RS wins in the sound department, but I felt the sound of the M cars was really good. Spent a lot of time standing outside the car and hearing them take off or fly by, so this is not synthetic cabin noise. I actually enjoyed the in-cabin noise (which is "enhanced" digitally), but wished it matched the outside noise more. The RS often elicits a 'holy sh*t' response due to the insane grip, glorious engine and noise, and staggering late-braking capabilities. I'm not sure you'd get the same response in the M car, but you'd also have a car far more suited to daily driving and you'd save $80k. Bottom line? Keep the RS for track duty and weekend drives, grab an M3 sedan (or M4 coupe if you don't need the doors) for the rest of the week! |
Great write up Nash. I was a part of this group too and fully concur with the comments. M3/4 makes a great/fun DD!
We did actually see a prototype M2 at the M Studio in Munich. It was a manual and, from what I could see, looked pretty sweet. The air vents behind the front wheels looked fantastic and are a whole new design style for BMW, if they are the finished product. Big question with the M2 is weight...can they keep it down? |
Originally Posted by Hoopumpers
(Post 11517817)
Big question with the M2 is weight...can they keep it down?
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Originally Posted by Hoopumpers
(Post 11517817)
Great write up Nash. I was a part of this group too and fully concur with the comments. M3/4 makes a great/fun DD! We did actually see a prototype M2 at the M Studio in Munich. It was a manual and, from what I could see, looked pretty sweet. The air vents behind the front wheels looked fantastic and are a whole new design style for BMW, if they are the finished product. Big question with the M2 is weight...can they keep it down?
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Originally Posted by Hoopumpers
(Post 11517817)
Big question with the M2 is weight...can they keep it down?
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Originally Posted by CAlexio
(Post 11518012)
Now that is some interesting info... Did the m2 look widened and squat like the fabulous 1M coupe did? How were the vents shaped, like a vertical slit or more like a stylized one? good wheel design? Anything else you noticed?
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I have an M3 in Yas Marina Blue on order and it is being built next week. Will retire the RS from daily driving and have a car I can take on long road trips and not feel guilty I am diminishing its value. It is really a utility vehicle as with 4 doors it can do Costco runs, the dog in an emergency, and easily a set of wheels without destroying my back. Will I track it? Hell yes.
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The M2 front side vents were vertical and extremely long. They also protruded significantly - basically the width of the flared wheel well to the center body panels. Reminded me of the 918 side vents, but flipped 180 degrees (sit behind the front wheels and go to bottom of the car), if that makes any sense. Photos were strictly prohibited unfortunately :)
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Wow, sounds like a pretty extreme body kit.. Looking fwd to seeing that car
Edit: just found a pic of the body vent... Very very cool http://m.caranddriver.com/photo-gall...-m2-spied-news |
Funny. That's the exact car we saw. Nice find!
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March 2016 tentative production date for US M2.
http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1014080 http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=901686 |
Chris Harris' review is out now but on Drive Plus which is a paid channel. Great review.
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Link:
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No subscription required here:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x22z38w_drive-plus-2015-bmw-m3-chris-harris-on-cars_auto |
Well I guess he likes it. Too bad he couldn't compare the manual and auto. Would've liked to hear his thoughts.
Mine should be arriving in a few weeks. |
It seems to be the ideal car for wife's daily automatic and my occasional track car.
Only question I have is ceramics or no ceramics? |
Originally Posted by TRAKCAR
(Post 11561967)
It seems to be the ideal car for wife's daily automatic and my occasional track car.
Only question I have is ceramics or no ceramics? Peter |
Just gotta love this post on a bimmer forum I just found. Debate rages after the Harris video on the virtues of the new "steralised' M3 (electric steering, turbo engine, piped sound etc) vs the old. Sounds a bit like the 991 GT3 vs previous gen debate on this board. The posted makes a good point in a funny way tho...
"Most of the butthurt from a previous generation M owner goes away when he/she buys the new one or just loses the will to troll. The E46 people whined about the E92 for a solid year. "It's too heavy, the steering sucks, looks girly, THERE'S A FAKE HOOD VENT OMG, " etc etc. Then, as befits the old, they either died naturally or were eaten by predators. " __________________ |
Nothing holds a candle to the E30 M3 but having driven both the E90 and new F80, I'd take the F80. Just too bad BMW can't put a decent manual in it.
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Originally Posted by Nizer
(Post 11562718)
Nothing holds a candle to the E30 M3 but having driven both the E90 and new F80, I'd take the F80. Just too bad BMW can't put a decent manual in it.
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Originally Posted by -eztrader-
(Post 11562841)
What's wrong with the manual? I want to test drive one, but have only found automatic.
I've owned six manual transmission Bimmers going all the way back to a '72 2002 tii and my current daily driver is an '08 535i w/manual that I love, so it's not like I'm biased against BMW manuals. That said, i have a lot of seat time in a manual E92 and was never particularly impressed with that transmission and I think the E82 manual has even less feel. FWIW, think most here know my strong preference for manuals but I was disappointed enough to switch the trans on my build to DCT. Now if you go on any Bimmer forum you'll find 10 guys that love the new manual for every one that's disappointed (example: http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1008074). Also, I consider the GT3 manual to be the best out there while a lot of folks consider it to be too stiff, so there's that. All I would say is drive one before you order it. If you liked the E92 manual you'll probably like the E82 manual, but if you expect it to be anything like a GT3 manual you're likely to be disappointed. |
I test drove the MT as well before placing my order. I have a strong preference for MT and have the same F80 DCT in the F10 M5 that I am offloading.
Verdict: DCT is the correct transmission for this car. I concur with what Nizer says above. Shifter wasn't terrible. Clutch was long, light and engagement was sharp and unnatural. On throttle, shifts between 1 and 2 were just abrupt as the engine goes off boost. MT is not well paired to the overall car IMO. The MT in my 987.2 Spyder with SSK is damn near perfect. If that's a 10/10, the F80 was a 3/10. Skip it and go dual clutch. |
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