Would you buy a 991.1 GT3 today?
 

At what price savings would you buy a similarly equipped/miles 991.1 GT3 vs 991.2 GT3? Assuming the 991.1 is a 2015. My fear is after the powertrain warranty expires, the 991.1 is going to take a massive depreciation and be almost sale proof if the engine has not been replaced.

I currently have the option to purchase each at around a $40k delta. Again, both highly spec’d, under 10k miles.

Purchase a unit that has a "G" engine, which would be a '14, or '15, with a "G" replacement engine installed. Alternatively, (harder to find) purchase a '16 which came with the upgraded "G" engine if resale is your concern. If this keeps you awake at night, then skip the .1 and pay the premium for .2. IMHO, the price delta is an expensive sleeping pill!

Since you asked - There's no delta at which I'd buy a .1 GT3.

FWIW - IMHO this is a totally personal decision based purely on risk/reward and financial wherewith-all. This issues with the .1 are more or less well understood. And, those aside, the other advantages of the .2 are similarly understood.

Invest the $40K wisely and it will pay for a new motor by the time the engine warranty runs out.

The rational answer to this question in terms of the price differential between the 991.1 and 991.2 strictly relating to engine failure should be equal to the expected value of the outcome. In other words:

Difference in probability of the bad outcome (engine failure) x net cost of the bad outcome

The net cost of the outcome will be the sum of the parts cost of the replacement engine plus labour and opportunity cost of your time plus diminished value of the car when the event happens.

This explains why the difference in price between the 991.1 and 991.2 will be worth it to some people and not others since the opportunity cost of dealing with an engine replacement will inevitably be different for different people.

Unfortunately, The engine in the desired 991.1 is an most likely an E1 or F. Production month 11/2014.

Correct. Financially, $40k makes a difference to me. Otherwise, I would eliminate the 991.1 altogether.

That scenario has also crossed my mind.

How much was the expected cost for the fix/solution that was close to being completed for the 991.1 engine?
Some shop was developing a fix until Porsche came out with the 10yr, so they shelved it.

It's "possibly" a blown motor with a 991.1 versus definitely spending $40K more for a 991.2

no

I have a .1 and don’t worry about the engine. Every car forum i have been on makes a huge deal about every engine... I am not worried about it and think 40k is an astronomical for limited benefit. You will love it

Is extended warranty available? This may be a much less expensive sleeping pill...

maybe, maybe not...

I think 991.1 is a great deal especially now; just have a rainy day fund... biggest issue is resale value so if you get it at good price then do it..
What is the actual failure rate ? 20% 40% ? mileage-dependent?
It is sad that 991.1 GT3 appear to be apparently under-represented/repressed in this sub-forum, it's an amazingly good car

It’s Murphy’s Law. Since you are questioning the what if, you will blow your engine. Those who don’t wonder or question will keep thei4 engine. I had a 2015 GT3 and traded it in for a 2019 GT3 Touring, mainly because I worried about the what if... looking back now I look like a genius as my trade value was $128K and the Touring was list. People who think too much usually don’t sleep as well as those you don’t think at all.

Not a bad question... I wonder what the actual failure rate is and if there is a time/milage when the failure generally occurs?

No

What other cars are you cross shopping in the price range of the .1 GT3? That becomes a dilemma for some because the price point on the .1GT3 is very enticing with the remaining warranty.

I would buy one at a dealer that would guarantee me that I could trade it back to them when my 992 GT3 comes in.

I always love these threads where people assume a 50% uplift in price for effectively the same car as a simple rounding error.

It’s simple, buy one, get the grenade out of there and laugh about the $50k you just saved.

The .2 will always be worth more than the .1. So it costs 40K more, but, a lot of it you get back. Why have a car with a story?

You are correct, but I think it has nothing to do with the car or the engine. In my view, its because so many GT drivers must drive a manual, its primarily a US thing. For the life of me, I cannot figure out why. I always hear the argument "I am worried about the engine", but the money shift is totally ignored (until they experience it, then its all about dumping the ECU and its impact on resale). It's always nice to see them fall back on every shift on a straight. It brings a smile to me every time.

It’s always perplexing to me how many people worry about this issue. It’s literally not a problem, if the engine fails by 2025 it’s replaced by a bomb proof engine. If it doesn’t then it’s likely to not break, buy the car, drive the car, and enjoy the car. Laugh that it’s 40-50k less than the .2. If you are buying this car you are likely able to afford any issue that comes up. If you listened to every person on this forum we would all be paralyzed by the fear of our .1 engines lighting on fire and our .2 oil pumps failing...you guys get really silly on here, yes I would buy this car. Honestly if you are worried about depreciation get a 997.

^^^ will cost you more these days ^^^

Correct, and soon it will be even more expensive, the point is buy the car you want and drive it. If your concern is depreciation I suggest putting your money into other places.

Right now, I wouldn’t. I was going to purchase a 2014 PTS .1 with 22k miles, 179k Msrp for 122k.

Price was good, and resale in 2 years most likely will still be about 100k. Amazing car for the money. But, with the 992 release around the corner I opted to wait.

Once 992s start landing it can only bring the price down on the .2s and then you’ll have more options at either buying a .2, or who knows and get a 992 allocation.

If you look hard you can find .2s as low as 139k right now. Hard to buy a 2-4 year older car with the engine issue and warranty expiring soon for 20k difference.

No. Mostly because of no manual trans option...

This is a good question.

Already have a GT3 Touring and wanted a dedicated car for HPDE.

Purchased a 996 GT3 in December 2020.

I also cross shopped the 997.1 GT3.

718 GT4 and GT4 RS are still on the list for potential acquisition.

GLWYS

personally i wouldn't touch a .1 for the reasons you mentioned. resale will be killer. now if you plan on owning and keeping the car thats a different story.

but i'm a manual snob though and wouldn't even consider trading my .2, even if a GT3RS owner offered me an even trade.

Maybe consider saving until you can buy a .2 ?
You could also pick up a 997.2 gt3 pdk, 981 GT4, or 718 GT4 pdk and enjoy for a few years then trade up to the .2 gt3 which will probably have come down by then.

lol

I think it depends on your purpose. What I like about the .1 is that it’s the only track car you can buy with a 10-yr warranty on the engine. All of them presently have between 4-6 years left on the warranty.

I think they will always trade at a similar discount to the .2. But put that $40k into the market and let it work for you and you will likely be better off in the end any way. With a few very rare exceptions cars are terrible investments for at least the first 20 years or so. And at that most still aren’t worth what you paid 20 years later. Even for those that are the opportunity cost is massive. It may sound good on paper when you say your buddy bought that rare unicorn 993 Turbo S and shrink wrapped it. But the same money invested wisely would be worth far more today.

Prices for .2 seem to be creeping up. Not sure if the cars are selling but I can't find anything near that 140k price. Especially in the last month. Maybe in Jan. It's crazy out there. There are a few .1's out there selling for under 110k. Feels like a steal. But even I have a hard time overcoming the stigma.

What's the reason so many are more okay with 15, 16 but not okay with 14's? Is it because all 14's got their motors replaced?

I suspect that’s a part of it. You get more warranty time with a 15 and 16, and with the 16 the G engine. In addition in 15 you could opt for the light weight bucket seats, which some prefer.

I would not consider a .1 first because PDK but also if the engine wasn’t the most recent spec. If we somehow knew the engine would fail before the end of the warranty, sure but I don’t like that bet. Shame really as the car is great.

Are the replacement engines really regarded as bomb proof? So many folks seem to say otherwise. Some saying they have gone through multiple replacement engines on here?

No, it's not bomb proof.

It's why there are F and G engines, both successors to the E engine (the original problem child of the family).

The problem is that people have a scattered definition of “replacement” and that problem is compounded by the E, F, G stuff - which means next to nothing as the engine went through multiple iterative updates which weren’t bound to a model year/engine letter prefix.

Bottom line - 2014-2016 - none of the cars left the factory with an engine that wasn’t susceptible to the finger follower problem. They just got harder to kill as time went on; however, the final revision didn’t come until the G6 and this appeared to do the trick.

Which means those early 2014 port replacements got an engine that could fail just like my early 2015 did.

If I were shopping one of these things I would 100% seek out one with a G6, they don’t fetch any extra money today and you can buy it at the bargain basement .1 price without the worry. IMO, I’d take a 2014 over a 2016 - it’s just going to be easier to kill if it hasn’t got a replacement yet.

lots of good dialogue in here. Appreciate all of the opinions as this is my dilemma at the moment. I’m finally in a position to buy my first Porsche. The GT3 is my dream car, but maybe I should slow roll my dreams and keep them in check with reality. I plan on using the car to primarily AutoX, but also do a few track days. I run with the SoCal POC in my dadmobile, VW Golf R at the moment.

Dude, buy the car....then hit me up and we can go crush Palomar.

Get a .1, plenty of time to cook that engine. I wouldn't touch one with the original engine if I was just going to be a low-mile/C&C sort of guy, but clearly you're going to use it.

It's a damn good feeling to know you saved 40-50k and the only path to get there is using the car as intended. Hell of a value prop.

I wouldn't hesitate to pick up a .1 GT3 at a $40K delta to an equally equipped .2 GT3. From a re-sale perspective, the dealer isn't going to lower your trade-in value specifically because of the .1 engine issue (this would likely only apply to a private sale), and from a warranty perspective, Porsche's good faith has been demonstrated numerous times globally. Buy the car, pocket the $40K and enjoy!! That said when I was in the market 3 years ago for a 991 GT3, I sought and bought a MY16 G6 engine car. I didn't avoid the MY14-15 cars because of either re-sale/value depreciation nor warranty issues...for me the x-factor was downtime to get a replacement engine shipped and installed. Those who know me, know that I track my car quite a bit and if the .1 engine where to go, it would most likely be during the track season. The prospect of being without a track car for 2-3 months, during peak track season here in the Northeast, while everything got sorted wasn't appealing. So indirectly you could say the engine issue led me to the G6, but it wasn't re-sale/value nor warranty concerns, for me it was downtime. If that isn't a factor for you, then go for it.

I was in the same spot back in 2018. Ended up finding the perfect .1 w/LWB, steel brakes, LEDs, and FAL and had to jump on it. The rest of the budget went towards an SUV for the wife and doggos. Both cars were had for a total price of a highly optioned .2. The .1 has proven to be an epic car and the savings are worth it in my case. I think about that each time I pass a .2 on track :o

I was in this situation when looking for a GT3. Thee RS and .2 was just out of what I was willing to spend (Wife was already pissed about paying over $100k for a "used car).
Looking around, I could stretch and get a beat on RS, or high miles low option .2 for $30k more than a stellar .1. IMHO, the .1 looks better than the .2, but the RS is still king.

I kept looking, and kept going back to the .1. It was a local car I knew the owner threw PCA. So I got a .1 with an extended Porsche warranty for 10years, so I'm covered will 2030 bumper to bumper. Now I can drive the snot out of it, on and off the track and no worry about basically anything. I do have to watch how I modify it (just have a Dundon center muffler) and I have to keep basic maintenance up.

While it may not be as "fast" as a .2 or RS, it's in budget, the car is next level on the track, I don't have to worry about any of it breaking, and I still get out outdrive some RS and .2 drivers on track.

This whole issue is kind of like the IMS bearings, the aftermarket will come out with several fixes once the 10yr warranty is done. I have put 10kmi on mine last year (Covid runs around MT Rainier) and it has been trouble free and perfect, my only grip has been 3 sets of tires and one set of brake pad that are being installed in my garage right now.

I got my car back in 10 business days with a G6 in it. Unless you bought a 16 with the engine already replaced, you have a G0

I should clarify meaning the current latest replacement engine. G06 I believe.

I'm not a lawyer but I am surprised that given how often this is covered on this forum that there hasn't been a lawsuit yet for "loss of value"; I imagine a lot of owners (like me) would not be happy that their cars are valued less than .2 cars
that being said, I wonder if Porsche will continue to take care of their customers even after the warranty runs out given the possible hit to their reputation.

I think 10 years is more than sufficient to determine whether you have a faulty engine or not. I’m guessing they won’t further extend the warranty.

I suspect that if they don't goodwill some significant amount of the out of warranty bills for this known issue then owners are going to lawyer up. I know my "could have" bill came to $52k, enough money where it doesn't hurt to try.

Not so sure I would count on it. 997 GT owners have addressed the Mezger coolant issues on their own "dime" after a government (NHTSA) review of the situation.

Yep. And the coolant line one is a serious safety issue.

Especially when you are behind one when a pipe blows and spills coolant all over the track. One of those ask me how I know moments!

Interesting, I’m on the original engine so it’s likely a G0 as you say. Is there a way to tell by the VIN what G-series engine is in the car?

It’s funny that this thread is full of people lambasting the 991.1 for having issues, that Porsche fully warranties. The 997 has issues, the 996 had issues, the 992 will have issues, the RS’s have oil pump issues.... all high strung cars at this price point will have problems. People on this forum need to get over the fact that Porsche produced multiple times the amount of GT cars that they did in the past. A 991.1 or a .2 isn’t going to be worth big money in the future. It’s also not going to dip below 80k or so of value unless you put huge mileage on it. If you want your sports car to go up in value put your money into something like an F355. Buy the car to drive the car.

I would buy one at their current market price. I actually bought one previously!

I recently went through the same dilemma. After getting lots of feedback from the members here, I decided that an early, low mileage 991.1 GT3 was too risky for me. So I found a great 2015 from a fellow SoCal PCA member (and fellow RLer) that already had the motor replaced with a G06. Coming from a 987.2 Cayman S, this thing is awesome. I'm excited for Covid to be under control soon so I can head back to the track with it!

Congrats on finding a unicorn. I’m close to pulling the trigger and going to try the lottery based on the advice of others. 14 or 15 25k+ miles.

What’s your spec? Did you find one with buckets?

I would and did! Love it...and will drive it.
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...80e63260fd.jpg

Good reading here! Subscribing.

It's stamped on the engine, I don't believe it's visible from the top so look under the car on your next oil change.

I just bought mine... 2015 GT3. A lot to get used to... been through bunch of different cars, from M3's to R8's... but This thing is on another level.

Seems like everyone picking up cars in here are grabbing 15’s. Is there a reason you all are avoiding 14’s? Since the goal is to aim for getting the motor out anyhow?

Any reason to opt for F over E1 given both seem prone to the issue?

are there any other changes between 14 and 15 not related to the engine? Better PDK, software etc?

Better to get a 14 that is specced how you want or keep skipping the 14’s for the 15’s? Some really nice 14’s out there right now.

Man you are really sweatin’ this on FB and here. I get it, but just wait for what’s best for you and don’t settle. The right one will come up, I promise.

2015s main option differentiators were sport chrono w/track precision timer capability, and LWBS.

That said, If you want to buy my 21k chassis, 10k mile G6 2015 w/buckets for 130k just let me know :icon107:

Ha. Thanks for the reply. I definitely might. Just trying to learn and understand things. Kind of my nature. I was asking more about mechanical improvements if any and less about options. Asking question here in case anyone’s response will help someone else later. Kind of like a giant knowledge base were all building.

Carry on.

Looking for the perfect 991.1 GT3 and this thread is gold. Why none of them seem to come with the carbon buckets is a minor issue. Surprising how many dealers have no idea what motor is in the cars they have in stock.

so if the motor went today, G6 would be the replacement?

anything else to look out for on something that is tracked more than 20 times per year?

Maybe the wheel carriers.

You will be hard pressed to find a better car at the 991.1 GT3 price point. Pricing over the past 6 months seems to have firmed up or possibly gone up a little if anything. But I think it really depends on the options of the car. Stripper 14's and 15's might be the low 100's or it would have to be in seriously poor shape and miles to be below. Quick glance online (not that its the end all), but 15's seem to range from 120-140K depending on mileage and options. But I didn't buy the car for resale, though it did factor a little. I had a 2019 C63s Coupe on order but ended up finding the GT I wanted. I would have taken a bath on that AMG. I have an F engine, got a little over 28K miles on it. I bought it to drive and I don't think too much about it, just enjoy the hell out of it every time I get in it. I might worry about a really low mileage car honestly, but one that has been driven might be the better option.

We have to separate 'ask' and what cars will actually bring. The market is a bit manic right now and I see a lot of people fishing for big $ that may not be there. The market has certainly gone positive, just not sure its gone up as much as sellers hope.

There's definitely a difference between ask and actual sales price, but I don't see 991.1 GT3s going much lower than they are. It's an amazing car. One of the UK Porsche magazines called it one of the best values on the market.

Yessir. Brand new, along with everything attached to it. It’s glorious.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...370db2e21.jpeg

I have a 2015. Drove it 10,000 kms and the motor let go, New Motor installed under warranty (G Motor) - driven 5,000kms thus far and the car feel strong and rock solid.
The 991 GT3 is great value for money, once the 10yr warranty on the motor runs out you can get it extended for peace of mind.

With the 992GT3 having more than 10% increase in price ($184k base in Canada) over the 991.2GT3 and with a shortage of microchips supply there will be probably be limited supply until things change; I don't see 991.1 or 991.2 GT3's dropping in price for a while.

Great conversation guys. Just my 2c here since I went through the same decision process a couple months ago before purchasing a 2015 .1 GT3 - engine, reliability, value vs. a .2 GT3, resale and everything else in between.

Here's what I ended up doing:

1. Purchased a PTS Ice Blue .1 with about 40K miles that was used regularly and for DE events (but not tracked). It is the only Ice Bblue .1 GT3 in NA and there's only 1 other 991.2 I know of with the same color. I figured if it's been 40K miles of usage, the chances of a blown engine are remote and even then, the warranty covers it.
2. I acquired it from a local fellow RLer who took very good care of it and added 10K+ mods (which I can sell when I replace with stock parts)
3. Did multiple inspections at Porsche dealerships while it was still under CPO to make sure it was in perfect condition.
4. Finally, I think I got a good price on it (sub 110k for an original 170k MSRP car).

I found it hard to justify extra for .2 GT3. What's going to be the floor for the 991 generation in 10 years - 100-105k maybe? Even the "hated" 996 GT3s are going for mid-90k or higher for good condition vehicles! There are some good deals to be had on the .1 - there are just NO deals on every other generation whether 997, 991.2 and forget the 992. Even my 997.2 TTS is selling for 10% more than what I purchased it for last year, which is totally nuts.

And in the meantime, look what you're missing out on (some pics below)! Good luck to everyone on the fence!!!


https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...2a6d0944c8.jpg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...10af58081c.jpg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...1d401ae3cb.jpg

That wing...

No not ever

That offer still stand? Lol

picked this up in April and couldn't be happier!
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...0f2ad5cbc8.jpg

​​​​​​​AutoX is a waste of time and tires in a GT3. Find a good 991.1 and enjoy it.

Curious why you would say that. From experience, or just conjecture?

CUP2 tires are not good for AX, but if it's a nice warm day they do ok. Nankang just released some serious 200tw tire for the GT3.

Yeah, if you don't want to shoot for TTOD (Top Time of Day) then yeah, the GT3 isn't good at AX, or if you want to spank seriously modified cars with a stock one, then the GT3 isn't good for AX. Yeah, if you don't want to learn how to drive a GT3 aggressively at speed and become a better driver...
​​​​​​​
Yeah, if you are not a good driver then the GT3 is definitely not a good AX car.