C5driver

Not really. In a free market economy, the price is a function of supply and demand in any given economic environment with individuals making economic decisions based on ability, means, and need.

abiazis

Manufacturers under franchise laws can only suggest price and dealers or distributors since they own the goods can charge what they want ....all legal...

Yippiekiaye

That right there is the crux of the argument. They cant afford it.

C5driver

Yeah I saw this, as well as the subsequent lynch mob with their pitchforks and torches at the ready. After Kyle forces Porsche dealers to sell GT cars at MSRP, I'd like to ask him to businessshame Ford dealers into getting me a GT at cost.

WernerE

Where's the LIKE button on RL?

GiuseppeM

hfm

Thanks!

It was in response to posts 77-79. You'll see I deleted one post because I couldn't make up my mind which post to respond to including one of those so, I can understand your confusion that it seems out of place if not read chronologically to the thread. Essentially, I was agreeing with Ipse's comment about not asking what someone else paid for a ticket because you may not like the answer. In a free market everything is negotiable, and, sometimes you can get less than MSRP, sometimes you get MSRP and some times you pay an ADM if you want the widget. I'm sure reading posts in the past that there are RLer's that got GT3s at under MSRP. ADM did not matter because they were positioned to negotiate a better deal.

My views on a free market is that market price fixing and market regulations are socialist/communist tools or, just ignorance of economic realities and the antithesis of capitalism. I prefer to watch a Milton Friedman video or try to remember the little I do from when I was a student reading Adam Smith's Wealth of Nations when I need to reference back to the subject. So, sure, I might not be an economist or an expert, never claimed to be. But, I'm not sure why you would suggest my using the phrase "it's a free market" disqualifies me from knowing what I'm talking about. I'd ask you why you would think or say that but, I suppose I just don't care.

Dan (thinks on another note that comments made by C5Driver about who owns business and who doesn't was spot on)

Perimeter

Succinctly stated by Martin before that Porsche Germany hides the numbers while propogating rarity via a hierarchal selection which the "market" adjusts for in USA pricing until late in production when the punters catch wind and orices drop.

I gotta wonder how Porsche do it in other countries which have no ADM

GiuseppeM

Setting up shell companies to charge over and fly under the radar doesn't qualify as free market. Controlling the market and lying on product availability is not free market. Do you know the story about Ferrari their limited and numbered cars?

Dealers can ask whatever they want (where applicable by law, which is in place to protect consumers, and yes you need to protect consumers) and discount as much as they want as long as it's transparent, or they're shady deals.

hfm

What shell companies? If you're suggesting Porsche is intentionally trying to control the market and have proof of that, the FTC might be interested in your proof of anti-trust. Me, I don't see what you're talking about but, if you know something the rest off the world doesn't, I'm open to being educated.

If you're referring to limited number Ferrari that wasn't limited, I may have read something about that, it may even have been from you, I don't recall. Not sure of your point other than Ferrari was trying to make more of a buck improperly. And, whether that was proven as a matter of fact and law, I have no idea. You're not suggesting Porsche = Ferrari are you? Because I see no wrong doing on Porsche's part. Your last sentence about dealers being able to ask whatever they want sounded good until you started talking about consumer protection.

I'm quickly losing interest in this discussion. I think my views were fairly clear. If you disagree, that's okay.

Dan (has work to do)

GiuseppeM

You didn't read anything about shell companies this past week (from lawsuits not actual forum members opinions)?

On a different note, if you're really here advocating for dealers and think they should not be regulated you must be not familiar with their business practices. I know good dealers, luckily.

hfm

Are you talking about Sookralli's misleading use of Champion Autosports? If you are, that has nothing to do with Porsche. That's not a Porsche shell company, that's the company of a fraudster. You expect Porsche to prevent con men from committing fraud by their use of misleadingly named companies? Good luck with that.

As for dealerships, I'm not advocating for them. I advocate for a free market. I don't buy from dealerships that use ADM. I buy from the ones that sell at MSRP. Please read comments from others about using your wallet to dictate the market.

Dan (*sighs*)

GiuseppeM

dark knight

Disappointing elitist attitude for a car enthusiast forum, I could easily afford more, but I don't spend money needlessly. Usually people who earn their money know this. I don't advocate regulation, I advocate for sanity and an end to this chaos. If you are a broker or flipper or use them, you are part of a "black market" you justify your position by saying its capitalism. Just like the coyote who smuggles people across the border instead of being legit and sometimes it all goes wrong like it did for customers of SS. I own rental property and businesses and I don't punch a time clock, that means I work for a living, and I believe in capitalism. I believe Michael Jordan should do something when kids shoot each other at shoe stores. I believe Porsche should take a stand in some fashion. Just like they punish those who used to ship Cayennes out of the US. There are ways to control the market and push out the corruption, They already manipulate dealers with allocations. Customers and the market need to be nurtured and grown, these games interfere with that relationship. Non Porsche Dealers should not be profiting from scarcity, period. That can be made to happen, non refundable deposits scared away brokers and flippers, requiring purchasers to offer first right of refusal for resale in the first year stops this game. AP made it clear, these cars are not a hedge fund.

silvertige

Ouch, harsh, but oh, so true.