GT car scams
09-21-2018, 02:04 AM
#91
Rennlist Member
Best way to make a France vacation.. well, amazing. Lol.
As for me, I got the 1st allocation spot on the .2gt3 from Sonnen Porsche in NorCal. I had a 2k deposit with them. They did ask for another 5k right before the build locked, but I thought that made sense. I hope Sonnen and their SAs continue to stick to their honest values. I have hope. Hey, Joe got his 3RS from them as well.
09-21-2018, 02:21 AM
#92
Rennlist Member
Remember what the S in MSRP represents. I only took Econ 101. But, I’m pretty sure market value is what the market will bear and, if that’s MSRP + ADM, then, that’s market value. Like I said, that’s not a problem. Just negotiate below market value to the extent possible. And, bear in mind, a dealership may not accept less than market value.
Dan (doesn’t like turning away clients that wont pay his hourly rate, but does so because, that’s market value for my services)
ps: A scenario where someone is desparate and trying to get rid of “whatever,” may end up selling below market. Say you find a desparate soul on Craigslist trying to sell their gt2rs to fund... say their next Senna, lol.
But... but... I forgot that this is RL. The powers that control the real markets may be members here.
Last edited by gago1101; 09-21-2018 at 02:39 AM.
09-21-2018, 02:44 AM
#93
Three Wheelin'
just wondering, Im not an economist and have had zero econ training, so dont laugh. If a certain commodity has a market value , why would anyone agree to sell it below market? Does not make sense. Can you or anyone with the best connections negotiate to buy apple stock at $200 when the market is $220? If you can negotiate down say from 100 to 90, I would think market has got to be lower than 90. This is my no non economist brain talking, but i may be wrong.
In similar analogy, a dealership may sell you a GT3 at MSRP instead of MSRP + ADM and, they may be fine with $200 instead of $220. Sometimes they may take MSRP, other times, the market is such a sellers market, they have no reason to demand anything less than MSRP + ADM unless you’re bringing something of value to offset the ADM such as a lot of options, additional purchases, a buying history and so on.
Dan (never laughs at a good question)
09-21-2018, 02:52 AM
#94
Rennlist Member
If you look at the ads for 991.2 GT3s, there are many delivery miles GT3s for sale on tbe used market. Porsche is selling to buyers who either dont like the car or are flipping it
09-21-2018, 02:59 AM
#95
Rennlist Member
Its a sound strategy to undercut the market to sell in volume even if your profit margin is less. If I am a lawyer with a rate of $220 and I refuse to accept less, I lose clients that will pay only $200 per hour to another attorney willing to accept that amount. That lawyer willing to accept less than market value gets business that I will miss out on and, that’s good for him. I on the other hand get full value but, lose out on work. That’s okay if I have enough inventory of matters to deal with but, really, I could have hired an attorney to work for me and make me greater profit with that work I would have had if I was willing to accept less than market value.
In similar analogy, a dealership may sell you a GT3 at MSRP instead of MSRP + ADM and, they may be fine with $200 instead of $220. Sometimes they may take MSRP, other times, the market is such a sellers market, they have no reason to demand anything less than MSRP + ADM unless you’re bringing something of value to offset the ADM such as a lot of options, additional purchases, a buying history and so on.
Dan (never laughs at a good question)
09-21-2018, 03:09 AM
#96
Three Wheelin'
Dan, thanks for the detailed explanation. I do agree with you on almost everything. However, my brain pushes me to think the market is $200 per hour and the $220 is above market. I am not an attorney, but this applies to my profession as well. There are countless prices to get a laser facial rejuvenation with say a fractional CO2 laser. The doctor with the appropriate training and skills that charges the least within a market, I think is the market value. There are and would be many doctors with inferior skills and training that may charge more just based on zip code. I could care less whihc zip code I buy my GT3 from.
I think the better way to look at it is: a person would not be willing to pay above market value. Market value is the most a person would be willing to pay. A person will always be willing to pay less than market value. That’s a discount, a sale and a happy day.
With respect to GT3s, the market will bear MSRP + ADM because of supply and demand. There is a greater demand for GT3s than there is a supply of them so, people are willing to pay more than MSRP. Market value is a function of supply and demand and, presently, it’s not surprising to see MSRP + ADM. Now, if Porsche was willing to make GT3s in sufficient numbers to meet demand instead of their demand -1 philosophy, MSRP sales would be more likely.
09-21-2018, 03:29 AM
#97
I hate to resort to a Google response but: http://www.businessdictionary.com/de...ket-value.html
I think the better way to look at it is: a person would not be willing to pay above market value. Market value is the most a person would be willing to pay. A person will always be willing to pay less than market value. That’s a discount, a sale and a happy day.
With respect to GT3s, the market will bear MSRP + ADM because of supply and demand. There is a greater demand for GT3s than there is a supply of them so, people are willing to pay more than MSRP. Market value is a function of supply and demand and, presently, it’s not surprising to see MSRP + ADM. Now, if Porsche was willing to make GT3s in sufficient numbers to meet demand instead of their demand -1 philosophy, MSRP sales would be more likely.
09-21-2018, 07:20 AM
#98
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by FourT6and2
How the hell does someone buy a GT car and NOT have to put a deposit down? What, you call up your dealer and say I want a new GT3RS allocation, here's my Porsche build code and they go, "Sure thing, you got it!" I call BS on that. They're gonna order you a car to your specs without a deposit? At MSRP? Right. Even with an ADM, I doubt the people who say they NEVER have put a deposit down on ANY car.
09-21-2018, 08:40 AM
#99
Rennlist Member
In the light of what happened at Champion Porsche, I am sure that a lot of us went thru similar experiences. Porsche dealers in this country has been taking advantage of Porschephiles, fans, enthusiasts, or loyalist all this years. It is time for us to demand PCNA to change this by requiring dealers to sell no more than MSRP to customers. Dealers has been taking advantage of us for years because of our loyalty. It is time for us to demand changes. Send your e-mail to customer.commitment@porsche.us and demand that PCNA do something with this "dealer abuse".
I had a good dealer (Monterey) that sold me GT car with MSRP, but it all changes recently when new GM decided to charge huge markup for GT3 I ordered a year ago.
I had a good dealer (Monterey) that sold me GT car with MSRP, but it all changes recently when new GM decided to charge huge markup for GT3 I ordered a year ago.
09-21-2018, 08:45 AM
#100
Rennlist Member
PORSCHE MANIPULATES BUYERS' PERCEPTION OF THE MARKET
I would argue that one of the reason that the ADMs exist is that because there is not perfect information made to buyers (from Porsche on how many cars have been allocated or will be allocated to the US, dealers hold/hoarding allocations for themselves, along with VIP flipping cars they don't really want in the first place) so it's a one-sided game where the buyers are at a disadvantage to the house (dealer/broker). This is supported by the simple fact that ADMs come down towards the end or right after the end of the production of those GT cars as more supply is revealed to the market (aka greater supply of cars in the entire market). Then there is the factor of emotion which causes people to make irrational buying decisions (call it paying an ADM) because they want the car NOW or because they want to spec it themselves as well as wanting most what you can't easily get.
09-21-2018, 08:59 AM
#101
I would argue that one of the reason that the ADMs exist is that because there is not perfect information made to buyers (from Porsche on how many cars have been allocated or will be allocated to the US, dealers hold/hoarding allocations for themselves, along with VIP flipping cars they don't really want in the first place) so it's a one-sided game where the buyers are at a disadvantage to the house (dealer/broker). This is supported by the simple fact that ADMs come down towards the end or right after the end of the production of those GT cars as more supply is revealed to the market (aka greater supply of cars in the entire market). Then there is the factor of emotion which causes people to make irrational buying decisions (call it paying an ADM) because they want the car NOW or because they want to spec it themselves as well as wanting most what you can't easily get.
09-21-2018, 08:59 AM
#102
^^, guys ADM is a choice and it happens across many car brands when you want to be the first kid on your block with the shinny new toy. Guess what many of them are piled up for some because some can’t really tell the difference from the last one, it will be the last best thing. It’s a car, and nothing more .......if you wait you get a deal ....you want now you pay it’s not rocket science. ADM ranges around 10%, I find it amazing 7 figure salaries or close ranting about ADM’s. Porsche didn’t rip out your check book and mke you pay ....it’s called self control. Many members have tried to sell members here cars, and most of them are tire kickers. This is not a supply problem all clear bra’d with ceramic coating ready to be loved..........
https://nationalpreownedporsche.com/...1_gt2&limit=36
https://nationalpreownedporsche.com/...1_gt2&limit=36
09-21-2018, 10:57 AM
#103
^^, guys ADM is a choice and it happens across many car brands when you want to be the first kid on your block with the shinny new toy. Guess what many of them are piled up for some because some can’t really tell the difference from the last one, it will be the last best thing. It’s a car, and nothing more .......if you wait you get a deal ....you want now you pay it’s not rocket science. ADM ranges around 10%, I find it amazing 7 figure salaries or close ranting about ADM’s. Porsche didn’t rip out your check book and mke you pay ....it’s called self control. Many members have tried to sell members here cars, and most of them are tire kickers. This is not a supply problem all clear bra’d with ceramic coating ready to be loved..........
https://nationalpreownedporsche.com/...1_gt2&limit=36
https://nationalpreownedporsche.com/...1_gt2&limit=36
spot on. Last I checked no one is owed anything. We have free will o make whatever devotions we want about the cars we buy.
you don’t like adm? Buy a used older car.
you don’t like used older cars? Buy another brand.
These are first world problems. Ranting and raving will do nothing. Voting with your pocketbook will.
i tried to get a Gt2rs. Ridiculous adm. no desire to pay so I’m now shopping Mclaren 720 and Performante. Porsche dealer can go pound sand with their adm. but I don’t complain- I just go buy something else.
09-21-2018, 11:17 AM
#104
Three Wheelin'
spot on. Last I checked no one is owed anything. We have free will o make whatever devotions we want about the cars we buy.
you don’t like adm? Buy a used older car.
you don’t like used older cars? Buy another brand.
These are first world problems. Ranting and raving will do nothing. Voting with your pocketbook will.
i tried to get a Gt2rs. Ridiculous adm. no desire to pay so I’m now shopping Mclaren 720 and Performante. Porsche dealer can go pound sand with their adm. but I don’t complain- I just go buy something else.
Dan (thinks that’s the email needing to be sent to Porsche)
09-21-2018, 11:19 AM
#105
Rennlist Member
spot on. Last I checked no one is owed anything. We have free will o make whatever devotions we want about the cars we buy.
you don’t like adm? Buy a used older car.
you don’t like used older cars? Buy another brand.
These are first world problems. Ranting and raving will do nothing. Voting with your pocketbook will.
i tried to get a Gt2rs. Ridiculous adm. no desire to pay so I’m now shopping Mclaren 720 and Performante. Porsche dealer can go pound sand with their adm. but I don’t complain- I just go buy something else.