GT car scams
09-20-2018, 10:59 PM
#61
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
09-20-2018, 11:01 PM
#62
Also, earlier you referred to dealer margin, but dealer margin has nothing to do with it. The margin mentioned in this thread and quoted in that article is Porsche’s margin, not the dealers. What is your source for how much Porsche makes on a GT car?
09-20-2018, 11:03 PM
#63
Race Director
Originally Posted by Archimedes
What is your source to support your claim?
A former brand ambassador who sold lots of GT cars.
I do not have an accurate number how much Porsche makes on a GT car. Sorry, I was fumbling the dealer and manufacturer numbers.
I assume Porsche isn't stupid and makes a good margin on all models. They're going to let a dealer have a margin of $18K and they're gonna make a lot less?? I would doubt it.
09-20-2018, 11:05 PM
#64
09-20-2018, 11:08 PM
#65
Race Director
Originally Posted by Archimedes
So you pulled it out of your ***. Got it.
BTW, how would a ‘brand ambassador’ know what Porsche AG made designing and building GT cars? I think you’re confusing dealer spread with Porsche margin.
BTW, how would a ‘brand ambassador’ know what Porsche AG made designing and building GT cars? I think you’re confusing dealer spread with Porsche margin.
Dude, I explained above. Initially started talking about dealer margin. The dealer margin I quoted is correct.
Point being dealer makes decent margin. Don't know PAG's margin and doesn't really matter. Trust me, they don't make low margin cars at that price point.
09-20-2018, 11:12 PM
#66
Race Director
Archie, you must love stalking me around each thread. You're RL's #1 heckler. What productive or informative post have you made in the last year?? You make Marv look like a Porsche PhD.
09-20-2018, 11:42 PM
#67
Rennlist Member
Correction: UNDER-PRODUCING
Dealers margin is over $18K on an average GT3 build (before sales guy commission). How much more margin do you wanna give them?? Plus PAG is making a healthy profit too. They're not over priced. The economy is over inflated.
ADM hype nets sales guys a bonus 20% of that too. Throw a broker in there, a $5K bone as well. Like a damn Amway gig.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.blo...s-up-to-17-250
Dealers margin is over $18K on an average GT3 build (before sales guy commission). How much more margin do you wanna give them?? Plus PAG is making a healthy profit too. They're not over priced. The economy is over inflated.
ADM hype nets sales guys a bonus 20% of that too. Throw a broker in there, a $5K bone as well. Like a damn Amway gig.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.blo...s-up-to-17-250
in this regard, you are correct. if Porsche wanted to keep ACTUAL prices at the MSRP level then they clearly would need to manufacture more cars. On the other hand, if they are looking to maximize their profit from existing production levels, then they should raise the prices up to current ACTUAL market level — e.g., $475 for GT2RS, $275 for GT3RS and $200 for GT3. That would take the flippers and scalpers and hooligans out of the market — and those excess(ive) prices would provide more margin for the dealerships and PCNA. The reason I was willing to pay ~$200k for GT3 (on my spec) was because I cant think of a better driving or sounding car for that price. I imagine that the guys who buy GT2RS for $475k think “wow, i just bought the fastest production car in history for under $500k” - so yes, even at these ADM prices Porsche is delivering good value for money — but the process is now ****ty and slimy because Porsche underproduces and undercharges for their cars. And yes, long before I could afford a Porsche, I was an Econ major at UCLA.
09-20-2018, 11:48 PM
#68
Race Director
Originally Posted by whojoemama
in this regard, you are correct. if Porsche wanted to keep ACTUAL prices at the MSRP level then they clearly would need to manufacture more cars. On the other hand, if they are looking to maximize their profit from existing production levels, then they should raise the prices up to current ACTUAL market level — e.g., $475 for GT2RS, $275 for GT3RS and $200 for GT3. That would take the flippers and scalpers and hooligans out of the market — and those excess(ive) prices would provide more margin for the dealerships and PCNA. The reason I was willing to pay ~$200k for GT3 (on my spec) was because I cant think of a better driving or sounding car for that price. I imagine that the guys who buy GT2RS for $475k think “wow, i just bought the fastest production car in history for under $500k” - so yes, even at these ADM prices Porsche is delivering good value for money — but the process is now ****ty and slimy because Porsche underproduces and undercharges for their cars. And yes, long before I could afford a Porsche, I was an Econ major at UCLA.
All valid points and well presented.
Seems that the current ADM mania is limited to the USA. The red hot economy and bubble will let up soon. They risk overpricing themselves in a normal marketplace in the near future? Porsche can't adjust MSRP prices with short term demand fluctuations.
What will they do then? Drop prices? Also, relative to pricing around the globe, they need to be pretty inline.
Also ... Porsche can't and won't chase each short term market and demand fluctuations worldwide that are beyond their control. They have better things to worry about. Assume they have a longer range outlook.
09-21-2018, 12:01 AM
#69
Rennlist Member
All valid points and well presented.
Seems that the current ADM mania is limited to the USA. The red hot economy and bubble will let up soon. They risk overpricing themselves in a normal marketplace in the near future? Porsche can't adjust MSRP prices with short term demand fluctuations.
What will they do then? Drop prices? Also, relative to pricing around the globe, they need to be pretty inline.
Also ... Porsche can't and won't chase each short term market and demand fluctuations worldwide that are beyond their control. They have better things to worry about. Assume they have a longer range outlook.
Seems that the current ADM mania is limited to the USA. The red hot economy and bubble will let up soon. They risk overpricing themselves in a normal marketplace in the near future? Porsche can't adjust MSRP prices with short term demand fluctuations.
What will they do then? Drop prices? Also, relative to pricing around the globe, they need to be pretty inline.
Also ... Porsche can't and won't chase each short term market and demand fluctuations worldwide that are beyond their control. They have better things to worry about. Assume they have a longer range outlook.
09-21-2018, 12:07 AM
#70
Race Director
Originally Posted by whojoemama
many companies price by market — and the US clearly pays more for many things — medicine is a big example. they then have to address trans-shipping and gray market, just like Porsche, BMW & Mercedes used to deal with. So if Porsche is not going to improve supply, and doesn’t want to move pricing, then they actually have to do a lot better job getting to know their customers and making sure the ‘right’ ones end up buying and driving their cars.....which may or may not be their coveted 918 VIPs....
Yeah, they are very bad at having a personal connection and database of their loyal customers.
Give it a couple years, we won't be having all these ADM debates.
The 918 VIP program was the father of all these current shenanigans. PCNA overreacted and gave away he house on that one. Could have done a better job marketing the 918 vs what they came up for the US market.
09-21-2018, 12:19 AM
#71
You’re spouting nonsense like you’re the Porsche Oracle when almost everything you say is either speculation or pure bull****. I’m thinking of a word that rhymes with snackjob.
09-21-2018, 12:21 AM
#72
Race Director
Originally Posted by Archimedes
You’re spouting nonsense like you’re the Porsche Oracle when almost everything you say is either speculation or pure bull****. I’m thinking of a word that rhymes with snackjob.
Archie, you're riding people's asses here on RL more than a toilet seat in a truck stop. Please stop quoting me from now on. I'm done with you.
You literally follow me around the forum and have a smart *** comment for everything I post. Chill out dude.
09-21-2018, 12:21 AM
#73
Rennlist Member
One of the biggest problems with ADM in the US and why many are passionately against it is the injustice. No one wants to feel they were fooled. Why do you or I have to pay ADM if someone with a better connection can get a msrp deal? You pay $200k for a car. Next day someone tells you they bought the same car for $170k.
ps: if adm were the same across the board for everyone, there would have been less complaints
...and profit margin aside, Porsche needs to hire some smart economists or hustlers. I think there can be a state (in chemistry terms) where the enthusiasts are satisfied, Porsche gets its cut, and dealers make their money.
ps: if adm were the same across the board for everyone, there would have been less complaints
...and profit margin aside, Porsche needs to hire some smart economists or hustlers. I think there can be a state (in chemistry terms) where the enthusiasts are satisfied, Porsche gets its cut, and dealers make their money.
09-21-2018, 12:35 AM
#74
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
One of the biggest problems with ADM in the US and why many are passionately against it is the injustice. No one wants to feel they were fooled. Why do you or I have to pay ADM if someone with a better connection can get a msrp deal? You pay $200k for a car. Next day someone tells you they bought the same car for $170k.
ps: if adm were the same across the board for everyone, there would have been less complaints
ps: if adm were the same across the board for everyone, there would have been less complaints
09-21-2018, 12:40 AM
#75
Rennlist Member
most of these commercial flyers are not on RL. Yes, many who paid ADM are happy, until they check in here and see people getting msrp deals.