FourT6and2

Right. People who have a long history with a dealer and have bought/traded back like 10 cars saying they "never" put a deposit down or pay ADM on a GT car are telling half truths. Because their deposit and their ADM have been paid many times over through amortization. It's no different from a dealer selling a GT3 at MSRP, but not before the buyer also purchases a Macan. You just paid that ADM on the GT car buy having to buy a second car.

Don't get me wrong, I'm totally ok with how this works from a business perspective. Dealerships have no obligation to sell you something nor to sell you something at a price you want. You don't have to buy the thing. You can shop elsewhere. So I'm not here complaining and seeking entitlement. But it is certainly annoying. Do I wish I could simply walk into a dealership and go hey I want a GT3RS allocation at MSRP. Here's my check, when's the car get here? Yes. That would be great. But I know it doesn't work that way for most. And I'm just pointing out that the people who say that's how they do it... well they aren't telling the whole story They have long relationships with the dealer. And that "relationship" isn't as drinking buddies. It involves lots and lots of money.

So sure... Bob never pays an ADM or a deposit. But he also bought 10 cars and put the salesman's kids through college.

shapiroeric

In no way can you compare the Ferrari Business model to Porsche....Ferrari sells at MSRP across the entire lineup.....imagine if Porsche did that?....no way it works....

darma1md

Porsche of Monterey GM didn't get the memo, Small city, we all know each other!!!

darma1md

Ferrari makes 7000-8000 cars a year, there will be 10000 GT3 alone, different level....

darma1md

True, but we're not talking about people who just show up and want MSRP, some of us do have relationship with dealers, bought a few cars, but still treated like dirt! Paying hundreds of thousands for cars, we need to get treated with respect, not just say, sorry bro, I can get more money for the car, even tho you told me last year you want it, I can make more, so tough luck unless you give me more....

FORENN

Yeah because Turbo owners aren't like that at all. Talk about a car where the excitement wears off fast!

FORENN

​​​​​​+1

RossP

There is only one true solution. Porsche makes more GT cars.

darma1md

That is actually true....

911Nub

Porsche, Dealers, flippers, and (most) enthusiast are pretty much all the same in a free market...

- Porsche - At the end of the day, it is about profit (money). See how fast 911 prices had raised over the years? Ever wonder why the price goes up at such a rate? Do they really want to supply more to fulfill the demand? NO! They tweak the same model, give it a new name, and switch the production line to that so they can jack up the price and make even more money!
- Dealers - They exist to make money. On new cars, they don't have a lot of chances to make extras and I believe Porsche wants to give them that chance (Porsche makes some, dealer makes some on these GT cars).
- Flippers - All about money.
- Average Enthusiast - most people would give themselves this name but it doesn't give you any more rights to own a GT car (at MSRP). At the end of the day, it is still about money... You wanted in MSRP so when you sell the car in couple years, it will be 20k above MSRP or more. It's about "0 cost" ownership (from depreciation's perspective) and wish you can make money on it while enjoy it. Driving the car for couple thousand miles doesn't make you that much better than the flippers. If the GT car depreciates like a normal cars, there would not be as many "enthusiast" out there.

At the end of the day, it is all about money for everyone. However, I believe the "enthusiasts" are the ones killing each other. The "enthusiasts" are the ones buying at a premium and driving up the demand by fulfilling the need to own the latest and greatest for a couple years and sell it with 0 losses (in terms of depreciation) or to make a profit. This is what enabled Porsche, Dealers, and Flippers to set the price sky-high. If the "enthusiasts" would stop paying premium (used or new), the prices would be more reasonable Don't blame the game, blame the players

Norcalgt3

C5driver

Free will goes with a free market, so how is there any "blame"?

911Nub

enthusiast - a person who is highly interested in a particular activity or subject.

I am new here so I am not sure if this forum has a different definition of it. I believe previous ownership shouldn't matter.

911Nub

Seems like some people are blaming Porsche for what's going on in the market...

robmypro

Yeah Joe, the negative responses do sound very familiar. But someone will need to do a lot more than just fill out a form or send an email. The COG had success because we took the time to mail letters to three separate people (PAG and PCNA), and we got the community behind us first. We had over 200 owners from around the world on board before we even contacted anyone. We asked owners what they wanted, and we got multiple PCA groups and the Smokies leadership on board as well. We also reached out to PAG in a very respectful manner. Basically, we setup an environment that applied pressure, but was also respectful, and gave everyone a chance for success. I am not sure we would have had any luck by filling out a form or sending an email. These things take a ton of effort from a lot of people. Who in the group is willing to put that amount of effort out with no guarantee of a return? We also knew what we wanted going in. I am not even sure there is a solution to this problem. At least we knew there was one with the COG.

So...is the plan to force MSRP sales on dealers? If so, that just means the lists we be a lot longer, and harder to get from dealers. And the availability will shift to the private parties. Prices will just be a lot higher there, so we are going to pay either way. Not trying to be a downer, but the first thing to do is figure out the solution, is that solution legal, and is it doable? Telling Porsche to make more cars to meet demand isn't going to fly. Why would they do that this late in the business cycle? So the dealers make less money with no ADM? Not sure that is legal, and even if it were is that fair to impose rules like that on them? Not saying it is or is not, but it is a valid argument. And the games that happened at Champion could happen at any dealer. Not sure that is PAG's fault. Maybe it is, but I think a scam like that can happen with or without ADM. But I think changes should and probably will come after this debacle.

Personally, I think the next recession will resolve a lot of these issues (and create a lot more new ones). But my focus is on the products. Porsche makes great products, and even with the ADM I am not sure there is a better car than the GT3 or RS. Not without spending a lot more money. Great product. Very competitive price. Those things lead to things like we've seen.