GT car / Salesman - Shiraaz Sookralli - Champion Porsche's VP of Marketing
10-01-2018, 10:16 PM
#1756
Three Wheelin'
In the era of infotainment facts are the first casualty and are buried with truth.
10-02-2018, 09:26 AM
#1757
Rennlist Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Mid-Atlantic (on land, not in the middle of the ocean)
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Let me guess you buy gold as an investment. I've been hearing the 'market will turn' line for decades. Of course it will--no reason not to buy what you like today on fear of what you can't control in the future.
People buying $200K cars probably have the stomach to manage a economy turn better than someone buying a Chevy truck with 60 month car payments.
People buying $200K cars probably have the stomach to manage a economy turn better than someone buying a Chevy truck with 60 month car payments.
10-02-2018, 09:40 AM
#1758
A main issue in this thread is why there's ADM and how that can cause problems like this SS scam. You didn't pay ADM, but a lot of people do, using reasoning like "no reason not to buy what you like today." One reason not to buy would be that the car prices being inflated due to ADM.
10-02-2018, 10:04 AM
#1759
Rennlist Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Mid-Atlantic (on land, not in the middle of the ocean)
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People will stop paying above MSRP when conditions change and they expect the cars to depreciate. I generally keep cars for years, and I expect my Porsche GT cars to eventually depreciate. If they wind up holding value, that's great, but I'll still drive them without inhibition.
10-02-2018, 10:28 AM
#1761
Race Director
Some comments:
https://www.foxnews.com/auto/porsche...lawsuit-claims
* article was posted by a Rennlister yesterday
10-02-2018, 01:11 PM
#1762
Porsche Speedsters confirmed, limited availability, Another feeding frenzy to start. How many will pony up ADM plus for this one?
"SS" would have loved this car.
"SS" would have loved this car.
10-02-2018, 02:38 PM
#1763
I would take it a step further and say it's a result of how the system and market operate. Porsche metes out the allocations in little batches and doesn't say if/when more allocations are coming, dealers promote the idea of scarcity, ideas are floated around about some generation being the last NA or manual, forums like RL foster these ideas and rationalizations to pay ADM, and in the background you have a strong economy, high stock prices, interest rates are still pretty low, etc. One top of all of that, you generally have insufficient checks and balances to prevent someone like SS setting up a scam like this (not just at Champion, at dealers in general).
People will stop paying above MSRP when conditions change and they expect the cars to depreciate. I generally keep cars for years, and I expect my Porsche GT cars to eventually depreciate. If they wind up holding value, that's great, but I'll still drive them without inhibition.
People will stop paying above MSRP when conditions change and they expect the cars to depreciate. I generally keep cars for years, and I expect my Porsche GT cars to eventually depreciate. If they wind up holding value, that's great, but I'll still drive them without inhibition.
You nailed it.
10-02-2018, 03:17 PM
#1765
Race Director
Originally Posted by Jeffq7396
saw a video on YouTube yesterday... Perfectly sums up what being said here...
... rant starts around 2 minutes into the video, i'm sure he's a rennlister
Thanks for sharing. He's pretty much right on.
The sales guys and managers taking $$ under the table for allocations is some really shady Shiraaz type shizat.
10-02-2018, 03:22 PM
#1766
Maybe this has already been addressed in this thread, however what stops any random person from walking into Champion Porsche and claiming that they gave SS $20,000 cash as a deposit for a GT car with no receipt and want their money back?! This could get chaotic for Champion...or someone who put down a $1,000 deposit claiming it was $10,000. How is anything verified?
10-02-2018, 03:34 PM
#1767
Race Director
I assume you'd need some sort of receipt or documentation. You need to draw the line somewhere.
I'm more curious about those who paid him ADM on cars they actually received when the dealership was selling cars at MSRP like guy who posted yesterday.
I'm more curious about those who paid him ADM on cars they actually received when the dealership was selling cars at MSRP like guy who posted yesterday.
10-02-2018, 03:39 PM
#1768
Race Director
Originally Posted by turbo3six
My 2018 991.2 GT3 was purchased at MSRP and also included European Delivery! After being told that an allocation was available to me, I offered to offset the dealer expense of Euro Delivery to my SA, to the Sales Manager and to Dave. I was was told: ok thanks, don't worry about it.
Too bad not everyone has had the same experience. Would be nice if they did.
10-02-2018, 03:54 PM
#1769
Race Director
Originally Posted by DainLankfordLA
First post since joining 6 years ago...well at least something got you to finally post.
For the YouTube poster, quite crying. Getting thicker skin--this is the car biz not a safe place with coloring books.
For the YouTube poster, quite crying. Getting thicker skin--this is the car biz not a safe place with coloring books.
I think it's fine that he shares his buying experience. I'm sure 1000's of others have similar stories. We've read about them for years here. The guy has 21K views since only yesterday. Impressive.
Yeah exactly, the car biz. Not a damn war zone and Ponzi scheme which is what it seems like sometimes. No coloring books needed. Be a little more cooperative here than always have smart *** comments.
I think many like the cars, but the favorably rating of PCNA, PAG, and their dealers is MUCH lower. Great cars, questionable business practices and ethics. Hard getting excited about the cars, when the buying and maintenance experience sucks though.
Last edited by STG; 10-02-2018 at 04:09 PM.
10-02-2018, 04:32 PM
#1770
Thing is, Porsche sets the tune and we dance to it. They aren't fools, they take advantage of the "the end of the NAs is nigh" by making the bulk of their sales water-cooled while the "desirable collectives" are NA, further driving up the hype.
Like somebody already posted, many of these cars aren't going to be driven many miles, if at all, lest they lose their "value".
Why should Porsche even bother to make their cars be 100k mile cars? How many are going to be high milers? With the high cost of maintenance (plus Porsche controls most of the parts, not the aftermarket) they encourage new model sales, then they get rid of the trade-ins with CPO. Plus they're selling all they make. Advantage to Porsche, game, set, match.
Watch the auctions and you see cars that were astronomically expensive go for a pittance, because the owners can't justify the expense for keeping them on the road. Sure, some are sold for very high bids, but how many of those cars will even see any road miles again, they will be stored until the owner decides to cash in or dies. Who knows, when the current generation of younger car collector/enthusiasts die, IC cars may no longer be relevant. Fully electric may become dominant.
The Porsche I have on order will be the last sport car I will own as I plan to keep it as long as I can, age is more than creeping up on me, I will drive and enjoy it.
If you have the finances and temperament to go after these limited runs and it gives you joy, don't hold back. But we are playing into the Porsche scheme.
Like somebody already posted, many of these cars aren't going to be driven many miles, if at all, lest they lose their "value".
Why should Porsche even bother to make their cars be 100k mile cars? How many are going to be high milers? With the high cost of maintenance (plus Porsche controls most of the parts, not the aftermarket) they encourage new model sales, then they get rid of the trade-ins with CPO. Plus they're selling all they make. Advantage to Porsche, game, set, match.
Watch the auctions and you see cars that were astronomically expensive go for a pittance, because the owners can't justify the expense for keeping them on the road. Sure, some are sold for very high bids, but how many of those cars will even see any road miles again, they will be stored until the owner decides to cash in or dies. Who knows, when the current generation of younger car collector/enthusiasts die, IC cars may no longer be relevant. Fully electric may become dominant.
The Porsche I have on order will be the last sport car I will own as I plan to keep it as long as I can, age is more than creeping up on me, I will drive and enjoy it.
If you have the finances and temperament to go after these limited runs and it gives you joy, don't hold back. But we are playing into the Porsche scheme.