991 GT3 Concerned Owners Group
05-01-2017, 10:35 AM
#106
Race Car
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: The way to hell is paved by good intentions “Wenn ich Purist höre...entsichere ich meinen Browning” "Myths are fuel for marketing (and nowadays for flippers too,,,)" time to time is not sufficient to be a saint, you must be also an Hero
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There's a reasonable expectation that an engine will wear slowly enough to not be a problem.
Some MA175 engines are failing way before the normal engine lifetime due to two design defects; pressure between follower and lifter is greater than that which would retain an adequate oil film, and less than adequate oil distribution to those parts.
Some MA175 engines are failing way before the normal engine lifetime due to two design defects; pressure between follower and lifter is greater than that which would retain an adequate oil film, and less than adequate oil distribution to those parts.
05-01-2017, 10:45 AM
#107
Rennlist Member
I don't have a dog in this fight but my opinion your going at this the wrong way. I am a lawyer and was part of the team( I couldn't make the trip)that went to Atlanta regarding the compensation plan for the .1 GT3 engine replacement.
Getting a lawyer involved with threatening letters will get you no where. Porsche will defend its product fiercely if it feels the product is without fault. OTOH, it will work with owners if its investigation reveals a product problem. This is the mindset you need to have as you approach Porsche.
MY advice is document what you have regarding examples of failures with a list of concerned owners. Send it to the President of PCNA for a response. The letter need not be on detailed. Cite the issue with examples and let Porsche investigate. I would not offer suggestion regarding compensation. Let Porsche decide what is best given the circumstances.
Getting a lawyer involved with threatening letters will get you no where. Porsche will defend its product fiercely if it feels the product is without fault. OTOH, it will work with owners if its investigation reveals a product problem. This is the mindset you need to have as you approach Porsche.
MY advice is document what you have regarding examples of failures with a list of concerned owners. Send it to the President of PCNA for a response. The letter need not be on detailed. Cite the issue with examples and let Porsche investigate. I would not offer suggestion regarding compensation. Let Porsche decide what is best given the circumstances.
05-01-2017, 10:48 AM
#108
Rennlist Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Mid-Atlantic (on land, not in the middle of the ocean)
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^ Seems to me that Porsche is well aware of the problems, but not inclined to do anything about them at this time, other than addressing individual warranty claims as they arise. The question is what happens when the warranties end.
Last edited by Manifold; 05-01-2017 at 01:13 PM.
05-01-2017, 10:50 AM
#109
Rennlist Member
05-01-2017, 11:10 AM
#110
Instructor
I don't have a dog in this fight but my opinion your going at this the wrong way. I am a lawyer and was part of the team( I couldn't make the trip)that went to Atlanta regarding the compensation plan for the .1 GT3 engine replacement.
Getting a lawyer involved with threatening letters will get you no where. Porsche will defend its product fiercely if it feels the product is without fault. OTOH, it will work with owners if its investigation reveals a product problem. This is the mindset you need to have as you approach Porsche.
MY advice is document what you have regarding examples of failures with a list of concerned owners. Send it to the President of PCNA for a response. The letter need not be on detailed. Cite the issue with examples and let Porsche investigate. I would not offer suggestion regarding compensation. Let Porsche decide what is best given the circumstances.
Getting a lawyer involved with threatening letters will get you no where. Porsche will defend its product fiercely if it feels the product is without fault. OTOH, it will work with owners if its investigation reveals a product problem. This is the mindset you need to have as you approach Porsche.
MY advice is document what you have regarding examples of failures with a list of concerned owners. Send it to the President of PCNA for a response. The letter need not be on detailed. Cite the issue with examples and let Porsche investigate. I would not offer suggestion regarding compensation. Let Porsche decide what is best given the circumstances.
05-01-2017, 11:33 AM
#112
+1 - you can sell a 3 year old car near what you purchased it for and you're feeling like Porsche did the wrong thing? It should be a thank you letter...
Every manufacturer has their problems, things will break at the track. I experienced the whole bad injector, bad coilover issue in a regular 3.8 9a1 before they showed up in the GT3. The total 9a1 failure rate is very very low and will within acceptable levels.
Every manufacturer has their problems, things will break at the track. I experienced the whole bad injector, bad coilover issue in a regular 3.8 9a1 before they showed up in the GT3. The total 9a1 failure rate is very very low and will within acceptable levels.
05-01-2017, 11:37 AM
#113
Race Car
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: The way to hell is paved by good intentions “Wenn ich Purist höre...entsichere ich meinen Browning” "Myths are fuel for marketing (and nowadays for flippers too,,,)" time to time is not sufficient to be a saint, you must be also an Hero
Posts: 4,438
Received 421 Likes
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249 Posts
05-01-2017, 11:37 AM
#114
Rennlist Member
I agree with Nick. The original action group did not threaten. We were respectful and politely requested action. Not only did we avert legal action by some members of both RL and PH but engaged directly with PCNA in Atlanta with constructive suggestions some of which were taken up and benefitted all US GT3 owners. Ultimately, if you have serious concerns about the longevity of the engine, sell the car and buy something else; that was not an option at the time the original action group was founded.
05-01-2017, 11:56 AM
#115
Race Director
Thread Starter
I see this thread had a little action overnight. 
I can't respond to all comments right now, as i have a lot more PM's to address. Let me just say this.
I have the utmost respect for Porsche. The letter was drafted (and is still being edited) with input from the group, and not one person has recommended threatening Porsche. I believe the spirit of this entire process is to engage Porsche, let them know our concerns, propose a solution, and have a respectful dialog, with hopes of benefiting 991.1 GT owners in a meaningful way. This letter will come from the Action Group, and not a lawyer.
I am a huge fan of the company, and so our the members of the Action Group. Threats are not the way to start a meaningful dialog.
I can't respond to all comments right now, as i have a lot more PM's to address. Let me just say this.
I have the utmost respect for Porsche. The letter was drafted (and is still being edited) with input from the group, and not one person has recommended threatening Porsche. I believe the spirit of this entire process is to engage Porsche, let them know our concerns, propose a solution, and have a respectful dialog, with hopes of benefiting 991.1 GT owners in a meaningful way. This letter will come from the Action Group, and not a lawyer.
I am a huge fan of the company, and so our the members of the Action Group. Threats are not the way to start a meaningful dialog.
05-01-2017, 12:07 PM
#116
Race Director
Thread Starter
I applaud this effort and have added my name to the list.
I think the letter is written well. It could be sent by a lawyer, but I'm not sure that's necessary or even desirable at this point - the aim is convince Porsche that it's in everyone's interest and a fair solution for Porsche to extend the warranty for the engine at little or no cost, not threaten litigation.
Getting in touch with the media could be helpful, but I suggest first waiting to see how Porsche responds to the letter. The very existence of a Global Action Group, with a lot of people participating in it, may put sufficient pressure on Porsche.
I think the letter is written well. It could be sent by a lawyer, but I'm not sure that's necessary or even desirable at this point - the aim is convince Porsche that it's in everyone's interest and a fair solution for Porsche to extend the warranty for the engine at little or no cost, not threaten litigation.
Getting in touch with the media could be helpful, but I suggest first waiting to see how Porsche responds to the letter. The very existence of a Global Action Group, with a lot of people participating in it, may put sufficient pressure on Porsche.
05-01-2017, 12:10 PM
#117
Rennlist Member
This much I can assure you. Porsche is reading this thread and aware of the proposed group. Be smart and take the high road. If there is anything to the claims, Porsche will respond favorably.
05-01-2017, 12:13 PM
#118
Race Director
Thread Starter
05-01-2017, 12:30 PM
#119
Race Director
Thread Starter
Don't really want to go there at this stage. Feels sort of like showing up at a meeting with a baseball bat.
05-01-2017, 01:49 PM
#120
Race Director
Thread Starter
Update: Based on feedback from the group the latest draft was made.
Major Changes:
Most members feel that a 10 year, 100,000 warranty to cover this specific issue doesn't truly address the problem. The options being considered include:
1. Global Recall
Many members would prefer to have their cars recalled and retrofitted with the same top-end design being employed in the new GT3.
Pros: This solves the problem, hopefully!
Cons: This would be the most expensive solution for Porsche.
2. Lifetime Warranty
An equally large number of members want this issue to be covered for the life of the vehicle, regardless of mileage.
Pros: This solves the problem, through warranty. Porsche only fixes cars that have this problem, and they don't need to perform a costly recall.
Cons: This could lead to abuse, and that would be more costly for Porsche. Also, it is not fair to expect a top-end to last forever.
What this draft proposes:
We are proposing a free, 120k mile warranty to cover this specific issue only. There would be no date limit. It would be based on mileage of the vehicle only.
Pros: The mileage limit is high enough to eliminate any concerns about the reliability of the car. It is realistically a permanent fix, without requiring Porsche to issue a global recall. And finally, people can stop trying to get the latest "G" engine. It provides Porsche with incentive to find a permanent solution, which would be in everyone's best interests.
Cons: At some point many vehicles will hit 120k miles. Porsche will have to fix cars for a longer period of time, as the clock will not run out on this issue.
Comments please.
Major Changes:
Most members feel that a 10 year, 100,000 warranty to cover this specific issue doesn't truly address the problem. The options being considered include:
1. Global Recall
Many members would prefer to have their cars recalled and retrofitted with the same top-end design being employed in the new GT3.
Pros: This solves the problem, hopefully!
Cons: This would be the most expensive solution for Porsche.
2. Lifetime Warranty
An equally large number of members want this issue to be covered for the life of the vehicle, regardless of mileage.
Pros: This solves the problem, through warranty. Porsche only fixes cars that have this problem, and they don't need to perform a costly recall.
Cons: This could lead to abuse, and that would be more costly for Porsche. Also, it is not fair to expect a top-end to last forever.
What this draft proposes:
We are proposing a free, 120k mile warranty to cover this specific issue only. There would be no date limit. It would be based on mileage of the vehicle only.
Pros: The mileage limit is high enough to eliminate any concerns about the reliability of the car. It is realistically a permanent fix, without requiring Porsche to issue a global recall. And finally, people can stop trying to get the latest "G" engine. It provides Porsche with incentive to find a permanent solution, which would be in everyone's best interests.
Cons: At some point many vehicles will hit 120k miles. Porsche will have to fix cars for a longer period of time, as the clock will not run out on this issue.
Comments please.
Last edited by robmypro; 05-01-2017 at 09:49 PM.