991 GT3 Concerned Owners Group
04-30-2017, 10:44 PM
#91
RL Community Team
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Obviously lots of hard work went into this letter (and various drafts and re-drafts).
Just one bit of advice from someone in the peanut gallery. If this is really going to be sent out, it needs to be form an attorney. Otherwise, this effort while noble will be merely an otiose exercise in letter writing.
Just one bit of advice from someone in the peanut gallery. If this is really going to be sent out, it needs to be form an attorney. Otherwise, this effort while noble will be merely an otiose exercise in letter writing.
04-30-2017, 10:46 PM
#92
Obviously lots of hard work went into this letter (and various drafts and re-drafts).
Just one bit of advice from someone in the peanut gallery. If this is really going to be sent out, it needs to be form an attorney. Otherwise, this effort while noble will be merely an otiose exercise in letter writing.
Just one bit of advice from someone in the peanut gallery. If this is really going to be sent out, it needs to be form an attorney. Otherwise, this effort while noble will be merely an otiose exercise in letter writing.
04-30-2017, 10:50 PM
#93
Race Director
Thread Starter
Obviously lots of hard work went into this letter (and various drafts and re-drafts).
Just one bit of advice from someone in the peanut gallery. If this is really going to be sent out, it needs to be form an attorney. Otherwise, this effort while noble will be merely an otiose exercise in letter writing.
Just one bit of advice from someone in the peanut gallery. If this is really going to be sent out, it needs to be form an attorney. Otherwise, this effort while noble will be merely an otiose exercise in letter writing.
I am optimistic that something can be worked out before then, but we'll see. And yes, it has been a full-time job lol.
All good!
04-30-2017, 11:23 PM
#94
Race Director
^What you are doing is admirable. It takes a lot of time to grab the bulls by the horn and lead. Many talk about but few execute.
Cuddos to you. I am a fan and if I am ever in Colorado I will but you a j..nt/beer
Cuddos to you. I am a fan and if I am ever in Colorado I will but you a j..nt/beer
04-30-2017, 11:34 PM
#95
Race Director
Thread Starter
Thanks for that, Jimmy. Don't think for one minute it's just me. A lot of people are offering assistance, from advice, legal help, providing funds, meeting officials in person, etc. Totally a team effort.But sure, the first bud's on you!
04-30-2017, 11:46 PM
#96
Race Director
Thread Starter
Guys, is there a way to group message this many people? If not, I will update you guys on this thread for all general stuff.
On a side note, do you guys think this might impact my chances of getting a new GT3 at MSRP? LOL
Regardless the topic here, it ALWAYS comes back to getting a new GT3 at MSRP.
On a side note, do you guys think this might impact my chances of getting a new GT3 at MSRP? LOL
Regardless the topic here, it ALWAYS comes back to getting a new GT3 at MSRP.
05-01-2017, 12:06 AM
#97
05-01-2017, 12:19 AM
#98
Burning Brakes
Guys, is there a way to group message this many people? If not, I will update you guys on this thread for all general stuff.
On a side note, do you guys think this might impact my chances of getting a new GT3 at MSRP? LOL
Regardless the topic here, it ALWAYS comes back to getting a new GT3 at MSRP.
On a side note, do you guys think this might impact my chances of getting a new GT3 at MSRP? LOL
Regardless the topic here, it ALWAYS comes back to getting a new GT3 at MSRP.
05-01-2017, 03:22 AM
#99
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This is what was won from the IMS situation...
The Porsche settlement will resolve a 2011 class action lawsuit (Eisen, et al. v. Porsche Cars North America Inc.) that claims the Intermediate Shaft (IMS) in the engine of these vehicles is defective. An IMS failure can cause catastrophic engine failure, which may result in repair bills costing thousands of dollars.
The Porsche IMS class action lawsuit claims that the Porsche vehicles have experienced or may in the future experience IMS related engine damage before or after their original Limited Warranty or Approved Certified Pre-Owned Limited Warranty has expired, and that certain repairs were required or may be required in the future due to such damage. These repairs can be very expensive. The class action lawsuit was filed to help current and former Porsche owners and lessees obtain reimbursement for out-of-pocket costs spent on repairs caused by the defective IMS.
Porsche denies any wrongdoing but has agreed to provide reimbursements for out-of-pocket repair costs as part of a class action settlement. Porsche will also pay Class Members up to $200 toward documented towing and/or rental car fees related to IMS failure.
The class action settlement will also cover future IMS related engine damage. If your Class Vehicle experiences IMS engine damage after July 17, 2013, you will be eligible to receive a reimbursement for money you spent replacing or repairing the engine up to 10 years after the vehicle was placed in-service or up to 130,000 total miles on the vehicle, whichever comes first. You must promptly notify Porsche by calling 1-800-486-9809 to recover your damages.
The Porsche settlement will resolve a 2011 class action lawsuit (Eisen, et al. v. Porsche Cars North America Inc.) that claims the Intermediate Shaft (IMS) in the engine of these vehicles is defective. An IMS failure can cause catastrophic engine failure, which may result in repair bills costing thousands of dollars.
The Porsche IMS class action lawsuit claims that the Porsche vehicles have experienced or may in the future experience IMS related engine damage before or after their original Limited Warranty or Approved Certified Pre-Owned Limited Warranty has expired, and that certain repairs were required or may be required in the future due to such damage. These repairs can be very expensive. The class action lawsuit was filed to help current and former Porsche owners and lessees obtain reimbursement for out-of-pocket costs spent on repairs caused by the defective IMS.
Porsche denies any wrongdoing but has agreed to provide reimbursements for out-of-pocket repair costs as part of a class action settlement. Porsche will also pay Class Members up to $200 toward documented towing and/or rental car fees related to IMS failure.
The class action settlement will also cover future IMS related engine damage. If your Class Vehicle experiences IMS engine damage after July 17, 2013, you will be eligible to receive a reimbursement for money you spent replacing or repairing the engine up to 10 years after the vehicle was placed in-service or up to 130,000 total miles on the vehicle, whichever comes first. You must promptly notify Porsche by calling 1-800-486-9809 to recover your damages.
IMS was a design fault because the consequent issues were predictable and catastrophic for the engine
on the finger followers the issue is not predictable
there are cars with 30kmiles of tracking running fine
nevertheless the $1700 warranty extension up to 13 years
should be given by PCNA to the US ownership
and possibly ,in terms of rights, why not also the power to buyers to ask for biz shutdown
for any official porsche dealer asking overMSRP on new cars!
Last edited by fxz; 05-01-2017 at 06:10 AM.
05-01-2017, 05:47 AM
#100
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For E and F engines Porsche has helped and will always help when needed. The G engines show no problems so far. The changes for the actual engine in the 991.2 GT3 and coming GT3 RS were also needed to get more horsepower out of the engine, 500PS for the GT3 and probably 520 to 525 PS for the new and coming GT3 RS. There will be always improvements in technology over the years and everyone wants to have free upgrades, but it should be realistic.
So if have an E or F engine Porsche will probably stay by your side. G Version has no problems so far ... just my 2cents ..
So if have an E or F engine Porsche will probably stay by your side. G Version has no problems so far ... just my 2cents ..
05-01-2017, 08:12 AM
#102
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I applaud this effort and have added my name to the list.
I think the letter is written well. It could be sent by a lawyer, but I'm not sure that's necessary or even desirable at this point - the aim is convince Porsche that it's in everyone's interest and a fair solution for Porsche to extend the warranty for the engine at little or no cost, not threaten litigation.
Getting in touch with the media could be helpful, but I suggest first waiting to see how Porsche responds to the letter. The very existence of a Global Action Group, with a lot of people participating in it, may put sufficient pressure on Porsche.
I think the letter is written well. It could be sent by a lawyer, but I'm not sure that's necessary or even desirable at this point - the aim is convince Porsche that it's in everyone's interest and a fair solution for Porsche to extend the warranty for the engine at little or no cost, not threaten litigation.
Getting in touch with the media could be helpful, but I suggest first waiting to see how Porsche responds to the letter. The very existence of a Global Action Group, with a lot of people participating in it, may put sufficient pressure on Porsche.
05-01-2017, 09:01 AM
#103
I think the letter is written well. It could be sent by a lawyer, but I'm not sure that's necessary or even desirable at this point - the aim is convince Porsche that it's in everyone's interest and a fair solution for Porsche to extend the warranty for the engine at little or no cost, not threaten litigation.
It's silly the way it's written.
It reads like a threat letter, which is worse than a litigation letter (which has some real meat to it). Go re-read it.
05-01-2017, 09:42 AM
#104
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Well if you read the letter, the basic tone of it is, Porsche if you don't do what WE want, we'll go try and ruin your reputation (and in the process your GT3 car values--which only hurts GT3 owners--but I digress) and basically throw a tantrum. BUT, if you do what WE say, we'll love the brand and Porsche like no other.
It's silly the way it's written.
It reads like a threat letter, which is worse than a litigation letter (which has some real meat to it). Go re-read it.
It's silly the way it's written.
It reads like a threat letter, which is worse than a litigation letter (which has some real meat to it). Go re-read it.
Unless an aftermarket engine fix becomes available at reasonable cost (on the order of $10K), I'm not comfortable with the prospect of owning this car after the warranty ends, when there is a known issue that puts the very expensive engine at substantially elevated risk of failing. If Porsche isn't even willing to offer an extended warranty for the engine at modest cost, that would confirm that Porsche views the risk as excessive.
05-01-2017, 10:01 AM
#105
Rennlist Member
Asking PAG to give the same warranty extendibility for a small amount as in EU is something reasonable
asking PAG to say the did an engine design mistake is getting nothing
consider on this engine part like the head that
since petrol engine history IS subject to wearing
there s nothing magic but head rebuild
(just ask any '60 '70 '80 etc. 911 or any car owner)
Any mechanical part under stress(movenent in your case) is subject to wearing
Any manufacter is obliged to cover early wearing before warranty expires
Pretending a free 10 year warranty extension because after 4! years a mechanical part could be hit by wearing is crazy
full stop
asking PAG to say the did an engine design mistake is getting nothing
consider on this engine part like the head that
since petrol engine history IS subject to wearing
there s nothing magic but head rebuild
(just ask any '60 '70 '80 etc. 911 or any car owner)
Any mechanical part under stress(movenent in your case) is subject to wearing
Any manufacter is obliged to cover early wearing before warranty expires
Pretending a free 10 year warranty extension because after 4! years a mechanical part could be hit by wearing is crazy
full stop
Some MA175 engines are failing way before the normal engine lifetime due to two design defects; pressure between follower and camshaft is greater than that which would retain an adequate oil film, and less than adequate oil distribution to those parts.
Last edited by d00d; 05-01-2017 at 11:11 AM. Reason: camshaft, not lifter