991 GT3 Concerned Owners Group
05-01-2017, 05:01 PM
#151
Race Director
Thread Starter
Ive not read the letter but the first question that needs to be asked is if you want this back in the media now that the fire problem is really yesterday's news. There is a very high probability PAG does nothing and this whole thing causes more harm than good, especially for market values.
Ultimately this issue will be back in the media the moment Porsche denies the first claim, out-of-warranty. And if that isn't their intention, getting clarity would be good for everyone. There are no plans to send this to anyone in the media, but we can only control so much.
05-01-2017, 05:05 PM
#152
Nordschleife Master
As most of you know by now, there a problems with the design of the 991.1 GT3 engine. These problems lead to unusually high top-end wear. These problems are present in all 991.1 GT3, 991.1 GT3 RS and 911 R engines. Porsche has never acknowledged this problem publicly, and this uncertainty has left many owners wondering if this car should be kept out-of-warranty. There are also valid concerns that Porsche might believe they can just ignore this problem. Therefore, an Global Action Group (GAG) was formed.
The purpose of the 991.1 GT3/RS/R Global Action Group is to prompt Porsche for formally resolve this issue in a way that is satisfactory to current and future owners of 991.1 GT3, GT3 RS and 911 R vehicles. A formal letter has been drafted, and will be sent to Oliver Blume, Andreas Preuninger, and Klaus Zellmer. To be added to the Global Action Group, please PM me your first name, last initial and city, state, country. You must be a current or previous owner of a 991.1 GT3/RS/R.
So what is an satisfactory resolution, and how can we balance our interests with the interests of Porsche? The solution to this problem is for Porsche to provide a free 120k mile warranty to cover this specific problem. This would be a special warranty, and would include all 991.1 GT3/RS/R current and future owners worldwide.
For more information please see the attached PDF. This is a draft.
The purpose of this thread is to:
1. Provide awareness to RL members and GT3/RS/R owners
2. Provide an opportunity for all members to give feedback and ultimately determine the direction the Action Group takes.
Current and future 991.1 GT3/RS/R owners need and appreciate your help. Please join the group.
A draft of the letter is attached. The goal is to send this letter to Porsche officials by Wednesday, May 3, 2017. FYI, we are not going to forward individual names to Porsche, but rather meta data related to the number of members, countries involved, etc. This will ensure people remain anonymous. We will get your consent in advance before disclosing any personal information to Porsche. We take this obligation seriously.
Note: The email for the Action Group is 991gt3globalactiongroup@gmail.com. You may contact us there, by using the PM system, or via the forums on RL.
To learn more, see the attached PDF.
The purpose of the 991.1 GT3/RS/R Global Action Group is to prompt Porsche for formally resolve this issue in a way that is satisfactory to current and future owners of 991.1 GT3, GT3 RS and 911 R vehicles. A formal letter has been drafted, and will be sent to Oliver Blume, Andreas Preuninger, and Klaus Zellmer. To be added to the Global Action Group, please PM me your first name, last initial and city, state, country. You must be a current or previous owner of a 991.1 GT3/RS/R.
So what is an satisfactory resolution, and how can we balance our interests with the interests of Porsche? The solution to this problem is for Porsche to provide a free 120k mile warranty to cover this specific problem. This would be a special warranty, and would include all 991.1 GT3/RS/R current and future owners worldwide.
For more information please see the attached PDF. This is a draft.
The purpose of this thread is to:
1. Provide awareness to RL members and GT3/RS/R owners
2. Provide an opportunity for all members to give feedback and ultimately determine the direction the Action Group takes.
Current and future 991.1 GT3/RS/R owners need and appreciate your help. Please join the group.
A draft of the letter is attached. The goal is to send this letter to Porsche officials by Wednesday, May 3, 2017. FYI, we are not going to forward individual names to Porsche, but rather meta data related to the number of members, countries involved, etc. This will ensure people remain anonymous. We will get your consent in advance before disclosing any personal information to Porsche. We take this obligation seriously.
Note: The email for the Action Group is 991gt3globalactiongroup@gmail.com. You may contact us there, by using the PM system, or via the forums on RL.
To learn more, see the attached PDF.
Anyway, I will be glad to help my fellow Rennlisters in whatever way I can.. legally if viable or otherwise. PAG unofficial position is there is no issue with the 3.8 .1GT3. Then if they are right an extended warranty on valve train won't cost them a dime. Good public relations and PR and happy customers. Win win. Right?
05-01-2017, 05:12 PM
#153
Rennlist Member
Civil feedback regarding this matter is fine; persistent trolling and/or vendettas are not allowed; in other words, say what you have to say in a polite manner and then move on.
If there are issues, please click on the red and white "Report Post" triangle so that all of the mods can be alerted.
If there are issues, please click on the red and white "Report Post" triangle so that all of the mods can be alerted.
05-01-2017, 05:15 PM
#154
Race Director
Thread Starter
Civil feedback regarding this matter is fine; persistent trolling and/or vendettas are not allowed; in other words, say what you have to say in a polite manner and then move on.
If there are issues, please click on the red and white "Report Post" triangle so that all of the mods can be alerted.
If there are issues, please click on the red and white "Report Post" triangle so that all of the mods can be alerted.
05-01-2017, 07:24 PM
#155
Rennlist Member
I know most of you are for the letter thinking what do I have to lose by joining. But you're risking something. Your cars' value.
Why in the world are you devaluing your cars? Assuming the 500 are legit owners, you all have put a dagger into the heart of your resale values. More than likely few if any would experience catastrophic failure yet you all painted that threat on the side of your cars.
The first global group regarding engine failure was assembled AFTER Porsche acknowledged the engine problem. Here no one knows whether there is a problem yet all the signatories are indicating their car has a problem. Good luck on resale.
Sierra Mike gave you good advice. Individually express your concerns either to your dealer or regional service rep. Or just sell the car.
Why in the world are you devaluing your cars? Assuming the 500 are legit owners, you all have put a dagger into the heart of your resale values. More than likely few if any would experience catastrophic failure yet you all painted that threat on the side of your cars.
The first global group regarding engine failure was assembled AFTER Porsche acknowledged the engine problem. Here no one knows whether there is a problem yet all the signatories are indicating their car has a problem. Good luck on resale.
Sierra Mike gave you good advice. Individually express your concerns either to your dealer or regional service rep. Or just sell the car.
05-01-2017, 07:53 PM
#157
Rennlist Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Mid-Atlantic (on land, not in the middle of the ocean)
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I know most of you are for the letter thinking what do I have to lose by joining. But you're risking something. Your cars' value.
Why in the world are you devaluing your cars? Assuming the 500 are legit owners, you all have put a dagger into the heart of your resale values. More than likely few if any would experience catastrophic failure yet you all painted that threat on the side of your cars.
The first global group regarding engine failure was assembled AFTER Porsche acknowledged the engine problem. Here no one knows whether there is a problem yet all the signatories are indicating their car has a problem. Good luck on resale.
Sierra Mike gave you good advice. Individually express your concerns either to your dealer or regional service rep. Or just sell the car.
Why in the world are you devaluing your cars? Assuming the 500 are legit owners, you all have put a dagger into the heart of your resale values. More than likely few if any would experience catastrophic failure yet you all painted that threat on the side of your cars.
The first global group regarding engine failure was assembled AFTER Porsche acknowledged the engine problem. Here no one knows whether there is a problem yet all the signatories are indicating their car has a problem. Good luck on resale.
Sierra Mike gave you good advice. Individually express your concerns either to your dealer or regional service rep. Or just sell the car.
05-01-2017, 08:05 PM
#158
Rennlist Member
Look my guess is Porsche isn't going to do anything now. Your letter will be rejected. The group then will have to force the issue and publicize the group and why they are taking the action. Your car value is kaput. Anyone in the market will have to think twice before buying it unless Porsche steps up (and they wouldn't). The buyer doesn't need a name but it would be easy to find out who was on the list. Or the buyer can ask the seller and the seller will either have to lie or acknowledge possible issues with the car. Either way it will be lose lose.
05-01-2017, 08:42 PM
#159
Look my guess is Porsche isn't going to do anything now. Your letter will be rejected. The group then will have to force the issue and publicize the group and why they are taking the action. Your car value is kaput. Anyone in the market will have to think twice before buying it unless Porsche steps up (and they wouldn't). The buyer doesn't need a name but it would be easy to find out who was on the list. Or the buyer can ask the seller and the seller will either have to lie or acknowledge possible issues with the car. Either way it will be lose lose.
05-01-2017, 08:50 PM
#160
Race Director
After much thought; for what it is worth, I think Nick has some good points. I think a letter is still a good idea but why not tailor it looking for help and clarification over the 991 GT3 engine issues. Ask them for some reassurances because there is so much concern. Enough concern that over 300 Owners need to sleep better at night with this model in their garages. I would leave the RS/R and the media out of it at this time and would not send any info to them(media) about this. I think if you hear from Porsche that they are going to stand behind their Product and their consumers even after warranty that is all you need to learn. The letter, drafted above, would be one when some start getting denied help from Porsche. I did not see the angle that you all could hurt your own values on this car and a very good point
Keep this Between 991 GT3 Owners and Porsche until you hit a wall. No demands ect- just some reassurances
Keep this Between 991 GT3 Owners and Porsche until you hit a wall. No demands ect- just some reassurances
05-01-2017, 08:59 PM
#161
Instructor
This raises the thought that perhaps it may make sense to wait on sending the letter until we are closer to warranties ending. There would be more data at that point to judge the failure rate. It seems that most of us still have 2+ years of warranty at this point? By the time warranties are actually running out, aftermarket solutions may be available at reasonable cost, or Porsche may voluntarily step up and do something to address the issue. Until then, maybe let sleeping dogs lie?
05-01-2017, 09:34 PM
#162
Nordschleife Master
Nick does have a good point. That's why the group should have it's duck's in a row if it intends/wants to take it "further". Unless PAG knows and believes there is a credible risk of "legal" action which it does not want either for many reasons there is a good chance they will politely respond with a non commital response.
05-01-2017, 09:59 PM
#163
While I applaud the OP's initiative and effort, my guess is that the letter goes over like a lead balloon at Porsche.
And I agree with Nick. Good analogy would be the impact of the BMW subframe issue on the M cars. Even if you car didn't have it, it still affected resale.
And I agree with Nick. Good analogy would be the impact of the BMW subframe issue on the M cars. Even if you car didn't have it, it still affected resale.
05-01-2017, 10:00 PM
#164
Race Director
Thread Starter
Okay guys, here is the latest. I have had quite a few discussions with people on this, either through email, PM's or over the phone. I have revised the letter to incorporate a lot of comments. Here are the highlights:
1. New Name - 991.1 GT3/RS Concerned Owners Group
This was suggested by a member, and I think it sets the tone better for a more meaningful dialog. We are also dropping the 911 R from the discussion. The feeling is if those guys have an engine issue, however remote that chance is, they wont be needing an extended warranty.
2. Shortened the Letter
A few people commented that it was too long. It is now 1.5 pages.
3. Change In Strategy
This is a big one. The entire goal of this letter is to get a meeting so we can express our concerns, and get some answers. This feeling was expressed enough times and finally I saw the light. Here's why. A huge problem with this issue today is uncertainty. Being able to meet with Porsche and express our concerns, and then let them tell us why we should not be concerned can go a long way. This is a process. Instead of going to step 2 or 3 (which the first letter probably was), let's give Porsche a chance to ease our concerns.
So....new letter attached to OP.
1. New Name - 991.1 GT3/RS Concerned Owners Group
This was suggested by a member, and I think it sets the tone better for a more meaningful dialog. We are also dropping the 911 R from the discussion. The feeling is if those guys have an engine issue, however remote that chance is, they wont be needing an extended warranty.
2. Shortened the Letter
A few people commented that it was too long. It is now 1.5 pages.
3. Change In Strategy
This is a big one. The entire goal of this letter is to get a meeting so we can express our concerns, and get some answers. This feeling was expressed enough times and finally I saw the light. Here's why. A huge problem with this issue today is uncertainty. Being able to meet with Porsche and express our concerns, and then let them tell us why we should not be concerned can go a long way. This is a process. Instead of going to step 2 or 3 (which the first letter probably was), let's give Porsche a chance to ease our concerns.
So....new letter attached to OP.
Last edited by robmypro; 05-01-2017 at 10:21 PM.
05-01-2017, 10:06 PM
#165
Race Director
Agree with COTA1
Drop the RS and I do like this draft.
The RS guys will be covered by however the 991 GT3 guys get taken care of so why Bull rush them with so much. Stay focused on the current issue
Drop the RS and I do like this draft.
The RS guys will be covered by however the 991 GT3 guys get taken care of so why Bull rush them with so much. Stay focused on the current issue