robmypro

Yep. Guy walks into a Porsche dealership. Two GT3's are side by side. One a 991.2 for $200k, the other a 991.1 for $160k. Guy looks at both, notices very little difference, probably even finds the .1 prettier, and asks what the difference is? One has slightly more power, might have the manual, which this guy doesn't want, and costs $40k more. Both have warranties. This isn't rocket science.

And this scenario assumes there is even a .2 available, not to mention the dealer might be asking well north of $200k. This is where prices are set. Not on forums.

montoya

^ Exactly. Forums are where non buyers and non sellers try to talk the market down to the price they will pay (which is never low enough).

ChicagoM4

I agree with this.

All used cars hit a price floor but many Porsches, and GT cars in particular, seem to depreciate less before hitting that floor. For GT cars, people may ask what other cars give them the prestige, specialness, performance, etc. for a certain price point.

It all starts with the 996 GT3. In the short and mid-term, 997.1s will always be higher priced (assuming miles / condition are similar) than 996s. So, once the 996 GT3s hit a floor ($50k - $80k), all the other GT3 grow off that.

As for the long term, who knows? I could definitely see the 997 gens becoming an icon.

W. MITTY

Lots of conjecture and prognostications in this thread. Real world experience doesn't lie: my Porsche dealer and at least two other high line dealers won't touch a GT3 with a ten foot pole unless the car is a virtual give away. I have no motive in sharing this information; I am not a buyer of a GT3, but a seller.

The FIRST thing we did before I put the car up for sale was check the Manheim numbers and I was heartened by them. However, reality, at least in my area, proved much different. Here's a challenge for a GT3 owner: list you car for sale at MSRP and see how many inquiries you get...I did and I got a grand total of zero. Now lower the price by $10k. See how many inquiries you get; I got zero. Now take 20k off. The tire kickers will now appear, and all I got was nonsense. Now, take it to the biggest Porsche dealer you can find and ask for a bid; I did, and they had no interest in the car...

Sorry guys, I'm just the messenger here...

As to depreciation, believe me, I am NO stranger to depreciation. I have the misfortune of loving cars that also happen to suffer from catastrophic depreciation, including AMGs (I have a C63S now that I love). The problem here is that Porsche GT cars have historically managed to somewhat avoid the fate of other high line cars. NOT ANYMORE. If you think the 991.2 GT3 is going to be any different, you are drinking the Kool aid. Porsche GT3=fantastic car. Porsche GT3 = normal, steep depreciation.

Moral of the story: buy used. Second moral: the next time you are tempted to pay over msrp for a GT car, immediately request frontal lobotomy.

CAlexio

If nothing else, this thread should confirm the validity of NEVER paying over MSRP. Dealers create an artificial market, and anyone who chooses to play in it is guaranteed to lose because the cards are stacked. GT cars depreciate slower than most others, that's a fact, but they are not to be thought of as investments, they are just awesome but expensive trackable cars.

Archimedes

You're assuming that the average GT3 buyer hasn't done his homework. I wouldn't make that assumption. The exception? Sure. But not the average buyer. The typical GT3 buyer doesn't need to ask the salesperson anything about the car other than the price.

ChicagoM4

Thanks for sharing, but how much of this 'lack of demand' do you think is due to the release of the 991.2? A lot of people may think why would they pay $130k-$150k for a used 991.1 when the new GT3 starts at $143k. Same for dealers. It's also like we are in a lag period before many people realize they can't get the 991.2 or afford one with the options they want. So they may start looking at the 991.1 if they want a modern car with PDK of 997 if they want manual / small / less modern.

ChicagoM4

Yep, the price difference alone ($40k in this example) would be enough for most people to ask 'Why?' and do a little research. Most people that go looking for a GT car have a basic understanding of what they are and the differences. Although, I did run into an exchange student once in undergrad who just bought one because his friend did

neanicu

1) Find another dealer. It doesn't have to be in your area. Some will make an offer based on pics,description,service history(which can be seen throughout the dealer system) and Carfax. They might even have customers looking for your exact car used,so it will be an easy flip for them. Try dealers on this forum for example.
2) Dealers will always lowball you,there's no ifs or buts. It's a business and they have to make money.
Your only 2 advantages are the tax savings towards another car(depending on your state) and the hassle free transaction.
3) Do not sell on Rennlist unless you are very aware of the market,sale timing,condition of the car(it has to be very good). Forget about the nonsense you read on here where people " have no problem buying tracked cars because they're better maintained ". Those same people will always look for cars that have not been tracked and pay more money.

Everything else discussed on here is common knowledge that I've had for years and I'm not even that bright.

robmypro

Newer model.

Jimmy-D

Funny- these Forums have actually raised the prices. Heck- this forum is what probably created Dealers for asking for Premiums. Plenty read these threads

Jimmy-D

​​​​​​​So true

grendel88

Sold my PTS 2015 late last year back to my dealer for MSRP. I did that when I started seeing a few cars pop on Rennslist dropping prices and low interest.

I had the car for a year, put 5K miles and was happy with that and wanted something different. But even in CA, the 991 GT3 market is saturated. To get close to MSRP, you need 2015+ and PTS and buckets and under 5k miles. Anything else is going to sell for 15-20% below.

I think this fair and reasonable. The 991 sold so well because of PDK and performance for $. It opened up the car to a bunch of new people who don't track at all. Well, these people can also dump cars quickly and see 15-20% on a 2 year car as nothing. 997 GT3s have been all over the place over the last 5 years. We will continue to see 991.1s drop because Porsche is going to make good mount of 991.2s and people will upgrade.

We know this from Ferrari and luxury watches, control volume and distribution and you will create propped up values. Sorry, but there are and going to be a lot of GT3s.

Jimmy-D

I think days of premiums for the latest Porsches "GTs" are slowly coming to an end(for now) except for the upcoming GT2/Speedster. Well- maybe the GT2 is at a price point that some will not want to touch. Not interested in a $300,000 GT2 but can not wait to see it and read the reviews. Reason- the Stealers hoarded these cars and now the glut is building. The .2 GT3 and now knowing the .2 RS is forth coming will also put some potential buyers on the sidelines. BLAME THE STEALERS FOR THIS. They did this to themselves and the Mothership allowed this and they will also suffer - that is long term not short term. This financial markets will eventually cool down sooner than later and then they are in trouble. Any Big Dealer with no inventory of these cars- Cudos to them-and I know a few

If it is true the .2 GT3 will be a 2 year run there will be enough for most. Screw any premiums. If enough say no prices will hit reality

homesauce

Sometimes it's worth taking a step back and considering that the bottom price can also be defined by how the .1GT3 drives. On the forums we get so hung up about top end rebuilds, PDK only, etc. but at the end of the day it drives fantastically and is truly a great car. If price drops off msrp like normal cars do because of a black eye or people chasing the latest and greatest who cares?

Most people that buy these cars are smart enough to know it's a toy and not an investment and should be valued based on how many smiles it gives and how much it makes your heart race, even if it can't be sold at msrp with the latest car being announced.