Drove new Turbo and turbo today... underwhelmed
03-25-2017, 08:37 AM
#16
Not a lot of "die-hards" on the turbo forum. That place is tumbleweeds compared to the 991 GT car forum. The recent thread on the new 991.2 GT3 has 163,000 views in 2 weeks. The top thread on the 991 turbo forum has 24,000 views after 2.5 years, and the topic is "991 turbo as a daily driver". That right there explains the different level of passion between GT cars and 911 turbos.
IMHO, most people (not all) choose a Turbo over a regular Carrera so they can brag to their friends about their HP and 0-60 times, and how their car costs so much more than a regular 911, but they can afford it. There are fewer true driving enthusiasts among Turbo owners, certainly compared to GT car owners, but also compared to regular Carrera owners, more so when the Carrera was NA.
There are those that track their turbos regularly, but they are definitely the extreme minority of turbo owners.
That said, a 911 turbo is an incredibly capable all around car. You can daily drive it all year round in any weather without a problem. It's very fast on the track, and has supercar performance without attracting supercar attention.
If you can afford to own multiple high end Porsches, then your idea of a Turbo daily driver and a dedicated GT4CS for the track, makes a lot of sense.
IMHO, most people (not all) choose a Turbo over a regular Carrera so they can brag to their friends about their HP and 0-60 times, and how their car costs so much more than a regular 911, but they can afford it. There are fewer true driving enthusiasts among Turbo owners, certainly compared to GT car owners, but also compared to regular Carrera owners, more so when the Carrera was NA.
There are those that track their turbos regularly, but they are definitely the extreme minority of turbo owners.
That said, a 911 turbo is an incredibly capable all around car. You can daily drive it all year round in any weather without a problem. It's very fast on the track, and has supercar performance without attracting supercar attention.
If you can afford to own multiple high end Porsches, then your idea of a Turbo daily driver and a dedicated GT4CS for the track, makes a lot of sense.
Come on, man - that's just silly talk. I owned a GT4. I love cars, but I have a kid and a wife that I love to take on car drives. The Turbo lets me do that and allows me to drive the car way more than I could the GT4/GT3 by virtue of some small concessions to practicality. And it is fast as ****. That's fun to me.
I could not give a crap about "bragging rights". Most civilians can't tell the difference between a boxster and TTS, and that's the truth.
You might argue I'm the exception to the rule, but I really don't believe that's the case. I personally think the GT3 market is infected with just as much (likely more) of the type of owner you describe. Definitely more flippers.
Incidentally, I'm not offended - I just think that this "true enthusiast" talk is a little silly on a bourgeois car like a Porsche, GT3 or otherwise. Not many spend this kind of money on a car who is not passionate about cars - not to mention be willing to eat the monster depreciation on a Turbo!
03-25-2017, 08:48 AM
#17
Race Director
Daily driver? TTS
Weekend toy? GT3
Weekend toy? GT3
03-25-2017, 09:14 AM
#18
Three Wheelin'
There are enthusiasts and then there are "fanboys/haters" (two sides, same coin). They all inhabit Internet forums and without too much practice can be easily identified.
03-25-2017, 09:57 AM
#19
Race Director
Ok, let's bump it up to 4! 
All these model variants have a buyer. Amazing what Porsche has been able to do with ONE MODEL, the 911.
All personal taste. Why these subjects go all over the place. No right/wrong statements you can make about something that's personal preference. You're not dealing with statistical facts here.
All these model variants have a buyer. Amazing what Porsche has been able to do with ONE MODEL, the 911.
All personal taste. Why these subjects go all over the place. No right/wrong statements you can make about something that's personal preference. You're not dealing with statistical facts here.
03-25-2017, 10:17 AM
#20
Drifting
I had a TT and it was awesome! the power was intoxicating. added a sharkwerks exhaust and it sounded amazing. however, I couldn't resist the pull of GT cars so traded it in for GT3. I would never belittle the TT/TTS or the people that drive them. Stunning machines and stunning capabilities. When I see one I'm still a bit envious!
03-25-2017, 11:11 AM
#21
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by rk-d
Because people would never buy a GT3 for bragging rights. Only true enthusiasts of the highest caliber have the refined taste and sensibilities to buy a GT3, as opposed to us nouveau riche Turbo heathens.
Come on, man - that's just silly talk. I owned a GT4. I love cars, but I have a kid and a wife that I love to take on car drives. The Turbo lets me do that and allows me to drive the car way more than I could the GT4/GT3 by virtue of some small concessions to practicality. And it is fast as ****. That's fun to me.
I could not give a crap about "bragging rights". Most civilians can't tell the difference between a boxster and TTS, and that's the truth.
You might argue I'm the exception to the rule, but I really don't believe that's the case. I personally think the GT3 market is infected with just as much (likely more) of the type of owner you describe. Definitely more flippers.
Incidentally, I'm not offended - I just think that this "true enthusiast" talk is a little silly on a bourgeois car like a Porsche, GT3 or otherwise. Not many spend this kind of money on a car who is not passionate about cars - not to mention be willing to eat the monster depreciation on a Turbo!
Come on, man - that's just silly talk. I owned a GT4. I love cars, but I have a kid and a wife that I love to take on car drives. The Turbo lets me do that and allows me to drive the car way more than I could the GT4/GT3 by virtue of some small concessions to practicality. And it is fast as ****. That's fun to me.
I could not give a crap about "bragging rights". Most civilians can't tell the difference between a boxster and TTS, and that's the truth.
You might argue I'm the exception to the rule, but I really don't believe that's the case. I personally think the GT3 market is infected with just as much (likely more) of the type of owner you describe. Definitely more flippers.
Incidentally, I'm not offended - I just think that this "true enthusiast" talk is a little silly on a bourgeois car like a Porsche, GT3 or otherwise. Not many spend this kind of money on a car who is not passionate about cars - not to mention be willing to eat the monster depreciation on a Turbo!
03-25-2017, 11:41 AM
#23
Rocky Mountain High
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I currently own a 2014 Turbo S, and I owned a 2008 Turbo before that. The 991 has much more personality than the 997 did. I've been lucky enough to drive a 991 GT3 on the track, although I haven't driven one on the street. I think both are wonderful cars, but very different. The turbo is definitely a fast, luxury GT. That being said, the guys who track them are pretty passionate about their capabilities.
I think that if you're someone who likes the GT3 on the street, then you'll find the turbo to be a bit soft. If you're someone who likes the Turbo on the street, then you'll find the GT3 to be a bit harsh.
They are both good, just different.
I think that if you're someone who likes the GT3 on the street, then you'll find the turbo to be a bit soft. If you're someone who likes the Turbo on the street, then you'll find the GT3 to be a bit harsh.
They are both good, just different.
03-25-2017, 12:44 PM
#24
Three Wheelin'
Dove the Turbo S, Carrera s (manual) and GT3RS at Barber last weekend and agreed with what you said...
really like apples-oranges on track...Turbo felt big, heavy, understeer-y, much less responsive to steering inputs, slow to rotate and brake/throttle steer, and a bit sluggish in corners compared to the RS or my GT3....just doesn't do it for me--I felt the same way a few years ago when I was trying to decide between GT3 and TT to purchase. Very fast in a straight line obviously, but linear power and screaming 8800prm in RS is so, so much better.
AWD just not for me on track---but would make a great DD and "all-arounder" if you could only have one car for family (4 seats), winter (AWD) and high speed grand tourer,\.....both fantastic!
really like apples-oranges on track...Turbo felt big, heavy, understeer-y, much less responsive to steering inputs, slow to rotate and brake/throttle steer, and a bit sluggish in corners compared to the RS or my GT3....just doesn't do it for me--I felt the same way a few years ago when I was trying to decide between GT3 and TT to purchase. Very fast in a straight line obviously, but linear power and screaming 8800prm in RS is so, so much better.
AWD just not for me on track---but would make a great DD and "all-arounder" if you could only have one car for family (4 seats), winter (AWD) and high speed grand tourer,\.....both fantastic!
03-25-2017, 12:53 PM
#25
Drifting
Because people would never buy a GT3 for bragging rights. Only true enthusiasts of the highest caliber have the refined taste and sensibilities to buy a GT3, as opposed to us nouveau riche Turbo heathens.
Come on, man - that's just silly talk. I owned a GT4. I love cars, but I have a kid and a wife that I love to take on car drives. The Turbo lets me do that and allows me to drive the car way more than I could the GT4/GT3 by virtue of some small concessions to practicality. And it is fast as ****. That's fun to me.
I could not give a crap about "bragging rights". Most civilians can't tell the difference between a boxster and TTS, and that's the truth.
You might argue I'm the exception to the rule, but I really don't believe that's the case. I personally think the GT3 market is infected with just as much (likely more) of the type of owner you describe. Definitely more flippers.
Incidentally, I'm not offended - I just think that this "true enthusiast" talk is a little silly on a bourgeois car like a Porsche, GT3 or otherwise. Not many spend this kind of money on a car who is not passionate about cars - not to mention be willing to eat the monster depreciation on a Turbo!
Come on, man - that's just silly talk. I owned a GT4. I love cars, but I have a kid and a wife that I love to take on car drives. The Turbo lets me do that and allows me to drive the car way more than I could the GT4/GT3 by virtue of some small concessions to practicality. And it is fast as ****. That's fun to me.
I could not give a crap about "bragging rights". Most civilians can't tell the difference between a boxster and TTS, and that's the truth.
You might argue I'm the exception to the rule, but I really don't believe that's the case. I personally think the GT3 market is infected with just as much (likely more) of the type of owner you describe. Definitely more flippers.
Incidentally, I'm not offended - I just think that this "true enthusiast" talk is a little silly on a bourgeois car like a Porsche, GT3 or otherwise. Not many spend this kind of money on a car who is not passionate about cars - not to mention be willing to eat the monster depreciation on a Turbo!
I have two boys, and they all love it when I take them out on rides in my Turbo S (Europipe + Cobb Stage 2). I certainly didn't buy the Turbo S for bragging rights, LOL. First of all, it's a Porsche, so nobody looks at you unless I'm in my 918 or my CGT. From where I stand, the standard GT3 is too slow and doesn't feel special enough. Out on the track, it doesn't have the typical Porsche "I'm going to kill you" sensation anymore, that's why I prefer the RS so much more on track. So there goes the "true enthusiast" theory out the door.
I love my Turbo S and besides my Panamera GTS, it has the most mileage out of all my cars. It's a truly fantastic car with all-around capabilities. I can go to any place I want, without worrying about the car bottoming out. The real world access makes me grab the Turbo S key all the time.
03-25-2017, 01:08 PM
#26
Different strokes for different folks. Turbo S is a great street car that happens to be a good track car. GT3 is a great track car that happens to be a good road car. Pick your poison. Cant go wrong. Both are great at what they do and good at the rest.
03-25-2017, 01:20 PM
#27
Race Director
03-25-2017, 01:32 PM
#28
I had a TT and it was awesome! the power was intoxicating. added a sharkwerks exhaust and it sounded amazing. however, I couldn't resist the pull of GT cars so traded it in for GT3. I would never belittle the TT/TTS or the people that drive them. Stunning machines and stunning capabilities. When I see one I'm still a bit envious!
Maybe im jaded, though, my daily is an Audi RS7, and I test drive the TTS yesterday after a beautiful 7 hour Barnstorm drive on I-80 across northern Pennsylvania from NYC to Ohio. Long story short, the TTS has equivalent power to the Audi. Of course it's lighter and more nimble than the RS7, but after my day in the RS7, it just came across as a smaller less comfortable version of the RS7 with an interior that's nice but no different than any lesser 911 with same interior finish selections. It just didn't have that sense of special occasion I feel when getting into and out of my GT3.
Hell, I'd venture that the motor in my RS7 sounds better than the TTS.
Put it another way, forced to choose, I'd rather have a new Panamera Turbo than a new 911 TTS (and I owned a Panamera Turbo S before, too). If you're going for comfortable, understated, and super fast, it's all the more impressive and special feelingin a large luxury sport sedan like a Panamera or RS7
03-25-2017, 01:53 PM
#29
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Thank you for proving the point of why a GT3 with back seats is way, way better than a 991.2 GTS. I love my 991.1 C2S 7MT but it's definitely not as sporty, even with PSE and Sport Chrono as a GT3. Not nearly so. For everyone in the other thread that said "Porsche makes that car, its called a GTS" well, no it isn't. It just doesn't have the same excitement or rawness of a GT3.
To me, the .2 GTS should be dropped. With the Carrera 4 being a turbo now, it's just not enough differentiation. Take the GT3, lose the wing and back seats, maybe dial it back 10% from the GT3 on stiffness, and make the ultimate street focused 911. I don't care if it's not called a GT3. Just make that. It will sell, I can guarantee.
To me, the .2 GTS should be dropped. With the Carrera 4 being a turbo now, it's just not enough differentiation. Take the GT3, lose the wing and back seats, maybe dial it back 10% from the GT3 on stiffness, and make the ultimate street focused 911. I don't care if it's not called a GT3. Just make that. It will sell, I can guarantee.
03-25-2017, 02:02 PM
#30
And isn't the TTS just as fast, if not faster, at most tracks than the GT3? I'm not a big TTS fan due to it's looks, but I find it funny when people act like the GT3 is a massively higher performing car, when it really isn't. The TTS is an amazing performer.