randr

Yep - when Mark Webber was asked if he preferred manual or PDK he replied PDK. So many many good reasons - no disrepect to those that want a manual, I understand your feelings (and still own a car with a hand assembled, rod actuated, manual gear box mated to a heavy duty clutch).

Perhaps Porsche should get it right and produce a real hard core dog box and heavy duty clutch coupled with a light weight fly wheel - this will definitely keep the purists happy . The reality is it wouldn't, because most people wouldn't be able to drive a 500hp car with a line like this (most people just stall). Thus the manual, as offered, is a compromise between old school hard core performance (dog box) and modern performance (PDK). It is a narrow window, a small market that neither represents a true performance manual or true modern performance transmission.

The Porsche manual, being cable actuated is a bit.........ahem soft coq .......and is very much a compromise ..........think about it^^^^^^ and the broader market quite probably understands this, at least at a level to generate a trend. Hence PDKs dominate production, the market leads and lags but is never wrong over the long term.

neanicu

Many are missing the point. Old Porsches with a manual are great,I'm glad many are keeping them whenever they want to satisfy their " shifting crave ". But please bear in mind they are nowhere near the new manual cars. Those that have driven the GT4 know I'm talking about. As with everything that Porsche makes,the new one is simply better. Please don't try to justify anything. Nobody has driven the new GT3,let alone one with a manual. I am willing to bet the farmhouse this will be better than anything manual Porsche has produced. Anyone willing to bet against me?
Mark Webber is a great guy. He works for Porsche. So does Rohrl. They will never use a new GT3 with a manual like I do. As a matter of fact,they won't use it the same as 80% of us will.

FORENN

Oh yes, I'm sure that's it exactly. It's the masses' keen understanding of how current manual trannies work that leads them to choose DCT/PDK. Definitely not the convenience and ease of PDK ... or that the shifts are faster ... or that a good portion of the current market can't drive a stick or at least can't drive one well. Hilarious.

ChicagoM4

Define better?

The logic behind getting a manual is more involvement, so if the new manual takes away some involvement then some people will say it's not better when compared to non-rev match / non-no lift manuals.

Like you said, no one really knows if and/or how the new GT3 manual is different, but regardless and assuming it offers more 'automated' features.

neanicu

It's always better as in the way it works as a package : engine,transmission,suspension,chassis,brakes.

Of course naysayers will spin Porsche's approach to prove their point : no lift shifting and rev matching. Luckily Porsche is smarter than that and so are their customers : they all can be turned off...traction control included. And then you're on your own : and that's what makes Porsche great! An old school 6 speed in a state of the art 9K RPM engine,modern suspension,RWS and the best brakes in the industry. That's BETTER!

ChicagoM4

You can't fundamentally change how the engine, suspension, chassis and brakes function compared to the manual. You can't just switch on and off different components of each like you can with the manual.

Porsche is purely doing this to appeal to a wider audience. Why can't they reserve the GT3 to have a actual old-school manual. What's the point of adding rev-match and no-lift if, like you said, Porsche customers will just turn them off. It;s not like there's a secret routine to turn them off and you don't have to be that smart. lol

TRAKCAR

Nobody?

ChicagoM4

To this point, and this is solely my opinion, generally manuals make slow cars fun while dual clutches make fast cars fun.

This is one reason why I am getting the PDKS. Slow 1M with real manual tranny and fast GT3 with one of the best dual clutch systems.

A418t81

These are exactly the things I've been wondering about as well. The "rev report" is far from an exact science as the ECU in at least the 997s seems to be far from accurate with regards to maximum rpm reached. This becomes a huge hand wringing deal for subsequent buyers, even if the "over-rev" happened hundreds of operating hours earlier. So annoying.

2. Like you said, if you go with the MT, you are giving up the E-LSD. What are they substituting it with? The same clutch-type unit that wears out in the 997? An updated version that still wears out, but takes a bit longer? The service life will certainly be shorter than the E-LSD versions in the 991.1 generation cars. I've yet to see one issue with the LSD in the 991.1 cars, while the 997 forums see this type failure semi-commonly on the tracked cars. The rebuild is also very expensive.

3. Maintenance on the manual itself. We are talking about a 9k rpm motor. What have they done to make sure the syncros aren't going to wear out quickly accelerating/decelerating the gear packs up and down to such high rpm? Is it going to develop issues with second gear decel pop-out likely nearly every other manual gearbox before it has had occasional issues with? What about the clutch? As you've already stated, the uprated 4.0L hardware is better, but it still just fails from heat cycles on the track.

It is hilarious to me that the same people who call the motor in the 991.1 GT3 a "time bomb" because it will require a motor-out service to replace relatively easily replaceable cams and finger followers for wear (possibly only needed to be done once with updated parts) are totally Ok with a similar service interval on an engine and transmission removal clutch/pressure plate/ flywheel replacement, which may very well cost MORE than the service needed on the 991.1 top end, and will need to be repeated a lot more than once over the lifetime of the car.

The fact that auto rev match and "no lift to shift" are enabled from the factory gives me pause as well. While Porsche may pass this off as just a performance nod to the enthusiasts, many times this is done out of necessity. An example would be the rev match feature of the current F8X M3/M4 in the 6MT cars. It is only disabled in sport plus which is supposedly what you would use on the track, and want it for perfect downshifts. The car will auto rev match in every other mode used on the street. You know why this is the opposite of what seems logical? Because the twin disc system in that car makes a funky moaning/groaning noise as the friction discs engage and pull the rpm of the trans up/down to the correct speed as you let the clutch out unless you have perfectly rev matched. Obviously they were not able to engineer that unacceptable attribute out of the system, so they bandaided it.

These are just some of the things I think about. In a perfect world, the manual sounds awesome...but I've lived with, and had to repair Porsche 6 speed boxes, and its not always roses....and always very expensive when issues arise.

timwu12

why don't we just ask the 911R owners for input on their manuals and how it's holding up?

the gearbox is the exact same and the motor, being out of the .1 RS doesn't rev as high as the .2 GT3, but 8600RPM vs 9000RPM in the same 4L displacement engine...let's just call it an equal amount of "abuse" on the clutch

ipse dixit

Can. Not. Do.

911R owners don't drive their cars.

And even if they did, few if any would drive it like most GT3 owners would, i.e. on the track or even as a daily.

AGO

Very simple equation to me

Fun on the streets: manual
Fun at the track: manual
Fast at the track: PDK

Then, figure out what you want !

NateOZ

The main advantage of the new GT3 is really what should be a more reliable and more thoroughly developed engine. I wouldn't want to match that with a relatively untested gearbox and LSD and potentially have a whole new set of problems.

PDK is the smart way to go, manual is the emotional path.

If you want old school, you won't find it in a 991. Not a lot of old school about RWS, hill hold, drive off assist, electric power steering etc.

neanicu

Great...when the 991.1 GT3 came out with a pdk transmission only,the Kool-Aid drinkers used PAG's cheap propaganda about " too fast spinning engines ", " no production capacity " and " pdk fitting the character of that engine " to spin off people's opinions about the missing choice. Absolute horses**t,as it turned out 4 years later. Now they are using " reliability " and " driver's error " to spin it according to their beliefs. That is absolutely ridiculous!

GrantG

I've updated your list for you:

Fun on the streets: manual
Fun at the track: manual
Fast at the track: PDK
Very slightly less Fast at the track: manual