View Poll Results: Would you buy a Manual or PDK 991.2 GT3 RS?
Manual- 991.2 GT3 RS
107
52.20%
PDK- 991.2 GT3 RS
98
47.80%
Voters: 205. You may not vote on this poll
991.2 GT3 RS... PDK or Manual? what would you buy?
05-15-2017, 10:38 AM
#61
Rennlist Member
You're right Nick. EVO voting the GT4 and 911 R their cars of the year was clearly complete self-delusion. As was every great drive I've ever had in a modern manual. From GT4 to F40, 997 RS 4.0 to CGT... no enjoyment there at all now that I consider it.
That said, I find your apparent need to believe everyone else is having a terrible time in these cars... interesting.
That said, I find your apparent need to believe everyone else is having a terrible time in these cars... interesting.
Ferrari, mclaren and Lamborghini build some of the finest and most exciting cars to drive and own. They are very knowledgeable about performance cars. Yet, none of them offer MT. Porsche did it to accommodate a vocal minority. To what extent they continue to do so is very much in doubt. I would be surprised if the .2RS and the GT2 are offered in MT.
If car enthusiasts want to dwell in the past and believe their own propaganda they should do so without looking down on those that embrace technology.
05-15-2017, 10:52 AM
#62
05-15-2017, 11:03 AM
#63
Three Wheelin'
Self delusion is common among MT enthusiast. That's my point.I recognize I am an average driver with mediocre skills. I want a car that makes me a better and safer driver at speed. MT does the opposite for most.
Ferrari, mclaren and Lamborghini build some of the finest and most exciting cars to drive and own. They are very knowledgeable about performance cars. Yet, none of them offer MT. Porsche did it to accommodate a vocal minority. To what extent they continue to do so is very much in doubt. I would be surprised if the .2RS and the GT2 are offered in MT.
If car enthusiasts want to dwell in the past and believe their own propaganda they should do so without looking down on those that embrace technology.
Ferrari, mclaren and Lamborghini build some of the finest and most exciting cars to drive and own. They are very knowledgeable about performance cars. Yet, none of them offer MT. Porsche did it to accommodate a vocal minority. To what extent they continue to do so is very much in doubt. I would be surprised if the .2RS and the GT2 are offered in MT.
If car enthusiasts want to dwell in the past and believe their own propaganda they should do so without looking down on those that embrace technology.
+1
It's sooooo cool to be in the MT inner circle, and to look down on the PDK drivers. Telling them they are clueless, talent-less and their cars drive by themselves.
It's the automotive version of the one eyed giant that's king in the land of the blind if you ask me.
05-15-2017, 11:39 AM
#65
05-15-2017, 01:50 PM
#67
05-15-2017, 04:37 PM
#68
I'm new to the forum and would like to chime in. So, I currently have a deposit for a 991.2 GT3 with a local dealer here in MD. I was fortunate enough to get on the list for a future allocation (dealer expects to receive it late this year based on previous relationship with Porsche and GT3 sales). I have yet to send my Porsche Car Configurator build to my Sales Advisor for two reasons: 1st. They don't need it yet since they haven't received the allocation. 2nd. I have not decided between manual and PDK. I've owned several sports cars in my 37 years of living, from E46 M3's, E92 M3, GTR's, Nismo Z, etc, and among them I've had both manual and sequential transmissions.
Yes, there was a cool factor there because of this stereotype that if you don't/can't drive a manual then you're not a good driver, shouldn't own a sports car, blah, blah, blah. Let's keep in perspective that the reason a manual transmission is better than an torque-converter based automatic is because you control the shifts and the power vs. waiting for the computer to shift at predefined shift points. With dual clutch transmissions, in manual mode, you're not at the mercy of a computer's logic and you're executing shifts in milliseconds. Again, keep in perspective that manual transmissions exist for "Performance" reasons, not for "Cool Factor" reasons. So, if the dual-clutch transmissions elevates, enhances, increases the performance of the same vehicle why wouldn't one want it? Technically, for a sports car, where the point is to extract the best performance, you should want the fastest transmission available.
If dual-clutch transmissions came to market before manual transmissions, and that's what you learned first, then later on you learned a manual transmission, would you really opt for a manual over a dual-clutch because you thought it was cooler?
Yes, there was a cool factor there because of this stereotype that if you don't/can't drive a manual then you're not a good driver, shouldn't own a sports car, blah, blah, blah. Let's keep in perspective that the reason a manual transmission is better than an torque-converter based automatic is because you control the shifts and the power vs. waiting for the computer to shift at predefined shift points. With dual clutch transmissions, in manual mode, you're not at the mercy of a computer's logic and you're executing shifts in milliseconds. Again, keep in perspective that manual transmissions exist for "Performance" reasons, not for "Cool Factor" reasons. So, if the dual-clutch transmissions elevates, enhances, increases the performance of the same vehicle why wouldn't one want it? Technically, for a sports car, where the point is to extract the best performance, you should want the fastest transmission available.
If dual-clutch transmissions came to market before manual transmissions, and that's what you learned first, then later on you learned a manual transmission, would you really opt for a manual over a dual-clutch because you thought it was cooler?
05-17-2017, 11:25 AM
#69
Three Wheelin'
Yes I'm afraid you are right. I should not have posted that. It was useless venting that brings nothing of value to the forum. I do get carried away sometimes.
08-30-2017, 07:27 AM
#70
Three Wheelin'
I'm new to the forum and would like to chime in. So, I currently have a deposit for a 991.2 GT3 with a local dealer here in MD. I was fortunate enough to get on the list for a future allocation (dealer expects to receive it late this year based on previous relationship with Porsche and GT3 sales). I have yet to send my Porsche Car Configurator build to my Sales Advisor for two reasons: 1st. They don't need it yet since they haven't received the allocation. 2nd. I have not decided between manual and PDK. I've owned several sports cars in my 37 years of living, from E46 M3's, E92 M3, GTR's, Nismo Z, etc, and among them I've had both manual and sequential transmissions.
Yes, there was a cool factor there because of this stereotype that if you don't/can't drive a manual then you're not a good driver, shouldn't own a sports car, blah, blah, blah. Let's keep in perspective that the reason a manual transmission is better than an torque-converter based automatic is because you control the shifts and the power vs. waiting for the computer to shift at predefined shift points. With dual clutch transmissions, in manual mode, you're not at the mercy of a computer's logic and you're executing shifts in milliseconds. Again, keep in perspective that manual transmissions exist for "Performance" reasons, not for "Cool Factor" reasons. So, if the dual-clutch transmissions elevates, enhances, increases the performance of the same vehicle why wouldn't one want it? Technically, for a sports car, where the point is to extract the best performance, you should want the fastest transmission available.
If dual-clutch transmissions came to market before manual transmissions, and that's what you learned first, then later on you learned a manual transmission, would you really opt for a manual over a dual-clutch because you thought it was cooler?
Yes, there was a cool factor there because of this stereotype that if you don't/can't drive a manual then you're not a good driver, shouldn't own a sports car, blah, blah, blah. Let's keep in perspective that the reason a manual transmission is better than an torque-converter based automatic is because you control the shifts and the power vs. waiting for the computer to shift at predefined shift points. With dual clutch transmissions, in manual mode, you're not at the mercy of a computer's logic and you're executing shifts in milliseconds. Again, keep in perspective that manual transmissions exist for "Performance" reasons, not for "Cool Factor" reasons. So, if the dual-clutch transmissions elevates, enhances, increases the performance of the same vehicle why wouldn't one want it? Technically, for a sports car, where the point is to extract the best performance, you should want the fastest transmission available.
If dual-clutch transmissions came to market before manual transmissions, and that's what you learned first, then later on you learned a manual transmission, would you really opt for a manual over a dual-clutch because you thought it was cooler?
The reason that many on this forum prefer MT is not one of performance but one of improved connection with the car. Although I am in this camp to a degree I have to admit that if PDK had been invented first there is no way anyone would go to a MT for better connection. That's like going back to non-inflated tyres for better road feel.
08-30-2017, 07:56 AM
#71
If MT was for "performance reasons" why is it not in '16 RS, GT2RS, Exclusive Turbo and '14,15,16 GT3. In a drag strip comparison the PDK gains a car length per shift. As many have said this subject has been beat to death but remains because there is a choice. the personal preference for both are a good choice. Just ask anyone who has yet to nail down a car.
08-30-2017, 11:49 AM
#72
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
This myth has long since been debunked. Nearly all of the PDK's drag racing advantage comes during the first second of launching and the manual actually claws back some time during certain parts of the run...
PDK is faster with launch control and shifts more quickly (and has better gearing in 5th gear and above). Manual is faster in gear and at top speed (both due to less internal friction) - and it's lighter. PDK puts less horsepower to the wheels (due to frictional losses as heat, I believe more than 10hp, IIRC)
PDK's advantage during shifts is nowhere near a car length (~15 ft).
PDK is faster with launch control and shifts more quickly (and has better gearing in 5th gear and above). Manual is faster in gear and at top speed (both due to less internal friction) - and it's lighter. PDK puts less horsepower to the wheels (due to frictional losses as heat, I believe more than 10hp, IIRC)
PDK's advantage during shifts is nowhere near a car length (~15 ft).
08-30-2017, 12:06 PM
#73
Nordschleife Master
Originally Posted by GrantG
This myth has long since been debunked. Nearly all of the PDK's drag racing advantage comes during the first second of launching and the manual actually claws back some time during certain parts of the run...
PDK is faster with launch control and shifts more quickly (and has better gearing in 5th gear and above). Manual is faster in gear and at top speed (both due to less internal friction) - and it's lighter. PDK puts less horsepower to the wheels (due to frictional losses as heat, I believe more than 10hp, IIRC)
PDK's advantage during shifts is nowhere near a car length (~15 ft).
PDK is faster with launch control and shifts more quickly (and has better gearing in 5th gear and above). Manual is faster in gear and at top speed (both due to less internal friction) - and it's lighter. PDK puts less horsepower to the wheels (due to frictional losses as heat, I believe more than 10hp, IIRC)
PDK's advantage during shifts is nowhere near a car length (~15 ft).
Grant!
Last edited by neanicu; 08-30-2017 at 12:35 PM.
08-30-2017, 12:07 PM
#74
08-30-2017, 12:08 PM
#75
Drifting
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Toronto - Exuma - Montego Bay
Posts: 3,191
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If MT was for "performance reasons" why is it not in '16 RS, GT2RS, Exclusive Turbo and '14,15,16 GT3. In a drag strip comparison the PDK gains a car length per shift. As many have said this subject has been beat to death but remains because there is a choice. the personal preference for both are a good choice. Just ask anyone who has yet to nail down a car.