McLaren Success
02-05-2019, 08:38 AM
#3166
Yeah i dont like my cars "soft" main reason the 720 is last on the list, the 675 scares me cause of the hydraulic suspension is a fortune to fix, and could be an issue, the 600LT seems to check all the boxes..............Senna seats are a must! i sat in them and fell in love
02-05-2019, 08:45 AM
#3167
Yeah i dont like my cars "soft" main reason the 720 is last on the list, the 675 scares me cause of the hydraulic suspension is a fortune to fix, and could be an issue, the 600LT seems to check all the boxes..............Senna seats are a must! i sat in them and fell in love
02-05-2019, 09:49 AM
#3168
Three Wheelin'
having driven all the ones you mention, without a doubt it is the 600 for me, to complement the .2 3RS, one is not "better" than the other in any way shape or form, fundamentally the cars are so different that every time i read someone on here comparing them, it really underscores that they have no clue what they are talking about.
the criteria for me was as follows:
I track my cars, so this was the first priority, how does it feel when pushed hard.
emotional attachment, the 600LT here is circa USD 450k, so since I'm spending a ****load of $$ on a car i want it to feel special every time i drive it, i don't care for suspension softness, quietness, comfort, infotainment and so on, the only thing that matters to me on these "toys" is whether the experience is memorable and special, and herein the 720 fails significantly, i tried to love it, and in my spec it is actually cheaper than the 600LT, but because it is such a rounded car, and excels at many things, it just was not a memorable experience overall.
I guess a simplified way to look at it, is that i recall having the 720 for an extended loan to try out, i literally drove it a couple of times and left it parked outside, however i had the 600 for a day (track and street) and could not get enough of it, at that point the decision is simple, and no objective comparison or review or marketing spill can overcome the emotional "want" you have towards one car or the other
So the best advice i can give is figure out what YOU want the cat to do for you, and compare the shortlist against that criteria extensively.
the criteria for me was as follows:
I track my cars, so this was the first priority, how does it feel when pushed hard.
emotional attachment, the 600LT here is circa USD 450k, so since I'm spending a ****load of $$ on a car i want it to feel special every time i drive it, i don't care for suspension softness, quietness, comfort, infotainment and so on, the only thing that matters to me on these "toys" is whether the experience is memorable and special, and herein the 720 fails significantly, i tried to love it, and in my spec it is actually cheaper than the 600LT, but because it is such a rounded car, and excels at many things, it just was not a memorable experience overall.
I guess a simplified way to look at it, is that i recall having the 720 for an extended loan to try out, i literally drove it a couple of times and left it parked outside, however i had the 600 for a day (track and street) and could not get enough of it, at that point the decision is simple, and no objective comparison or review or marketing spill can overcome the emotional "want" you have towards one car or the other
So the best advice i can give is figure out what YOU want the cat to do for you, and compare the shortlist against that criteria extensively.
You had the 720s in race mode and it felt soft?
I loved the car, it was great at everything it did, acceleration is crazy, went around corners with no lean, solid and predictable.. its a very fast car. I want one..no question.
02-05-2019, 11:00 AM
#3169
Race Director
Yeah i dont like my cars "soft" main reason the 720 is last on the list, the 675 scares me cause of the hydraulic suspension is a fortune to fix, and could be an issue, the 600LT seems to check all the boxes..............Senna seats are a must! i sat in them and fell in love
02-05-2019, 12:12 PM
#3172
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
02-05-2019, 03:36 PM
#3173
just to clarify, the 720 is terrific, it just didn’t work for me and MY criteria, there is nothing wrong with it being soft or compliant or it being geared towards everyday useability. However I was looking for something else when making my decision
02-05-2019, 04:05 PM
#3174
Race Director
02-05-2019, 04:29 PM
#3175
Just to add - OGara coach and/or McLaren Bev Hills is holding some sort of press/customer demo event in my area (Marina del rey) yesterday and today with their cars driving all around the marina
Saw a couple 720s drive by as well as a 570S (or GT), and an Orange 600LT both days. I just have my paltry GT3 and no exotic experience, this was my first time seeing McLarens in bunches on the road rather than sitting in a showroom
They all sounded quite underwhelming at low speeds to be honest. 600LT IMO looks much smaller in person to the 720s, maybe a function of width or it's an illusion. 720s looks like it's soaking the entire freaking lane. 600LT didn't look too much different to the 570S except for more aero and wing/top exhaust exit you have to look for. I actually found the 600LT too busy in the loud orange with all the black aero bits (definitely the track car), there is a lot going on whereas the 570S/720S have the cleaner lines and more spaceship appearance IMO in line with the LT vs S dichotomy
I was surprised by the sound watching the cars fly by, especially because it seemed like the 570S sounded as good as the 600LT but this is at idle/low revs going <45 mph. I think if you can get over the sound (I'm sure at WOT it's insane), fix it, or accept it for what it is (not a NA 4 liter), they do look the business and have the exotic thing down
People on this thread are bashing McLaren but I'm glad they are competing in the space. Lambo/Ferrari/McLaren have that exotic sense of occasion down FWIW, maybe the GT stuff is just so good and so easy that it feels ordinary!
I can see why people move on from the GT product into the more exotic cars, I'm still considering it too
Saw a couple 720s drive by as well as a 570S (or GT), and an Orange 600LT both days. I just have my paltry GT3 and no exotic experience, this was my first time seeing McLarens in bunches on the road rather than sitting in a showroom
They all sounded quite underwhelming at low speeds to be honest. 600LT IMO looks much smaller in person to the 720s, maybe a function of width or it's an illusion. 720s looks like it's soaking the entire freaking lane. 600LT didn't look too much different to the 570S except for more aero and wing/top exhaust exit you have to look for. I actually found the 600LT too busy in the loud orange with all the black aero bits (definitely the track car), there is a lot going on whereas the 570S/720S have the cleaner lines and more spaceship appearance IMO in line with the LT vs S dichotomy
I was surprised by the sound watching the cars fly by, especially because it seemed like the 570S sounded as good as the 600LT but this is at idle/low revs going <45 mph. I think if you can get over the sound (I'm sure at WOT it's insane), fix it, or accept it for what it is (not a NA 4 liter), they do look the business and have the exotic thing down
People on this thread are bashing McLaren but I'm glad they are competing in the space. Lambo/Ferrari/McLaren have that exotic sense of occasion down FWIW, maybe the GT stuff is just so good and so easy that it feels ordinary!
I can see why people move on from the GT product into the more exotic cars, I'm still considering it too
02-05-2019, 05:03 PM
#3176
Race Director
Just to add - OGara coach and/or McLaren Bev Hills is holding some sort of press/customer demo event in my area (Marina del rey) yesterday and today with their cars driving all around the marina
Saw a couple 720s drive by as well as a 570S (or GT), and an Orange 600LT both days. I just have my paltry GT3 and no exotic experience, this was my first time seeing McLarens in bunches on the road rather than sitting in a showroom
They all sounded quite underwhelming at low speeds to be honest. 600LT IMO looks much smaller in person to the 720s, maybe a function of width or it's an illusion. 720s looks like it's soaking the entire freaking lane. 600LT didn't look too much different to the 570S except for more aero and wing/top exhaust exit you have to look for. I actually found the 600LT too busy in the loud orange with all the black aero bits (definitely the track car), there is a lot going on whereas the 570S/720S have the cleaner lines and more spaceship appearance IMO in line with the LT vs S dichotomy
I was surprised by the sound watching the cars fly by, especially because it seemed like the 570S sounded as good as the 600LT but this is at idle/low revs going <45 mph. I think if you can get over the sound (I'm sure at WOT it's insane), fix it, or accept it for what it is (not a NA 4 liter), they do look the business and have the exotic thing down
People on this thread are bashing McLaren but I'm glad they are competing in the space. Lambo/Ferrari/McLaren have that exotic sense of occasion down FWIW, maybe the GT stuff is just so good and so easy that it feels ordinary!
I can see why people move on from the GT product into the more exotic cars, I'm still considering it too
Saw a couple 720s drive by as well as a 570S (or GT), and an Orange 600LT both days. I just have my paltry GT3 and no exotic experience, this was my first time seeing McLarens in bunches on the road rather than sitting in a showroom
They all sounded quite underwhelming at low speeds to be honest. 600LT IMO looks much smaller in person to the 720s, maybe a function of width or it's an illusion. 720s looks like it's soaking the entire freaking lane. 600LT didn't look too much different to the 570S except for more aero and wing/top exhaust exit you have to look for. I actually found the 600LT too busy in the loud orange with all the black aero bits (definitely the track car), there is a lot going on whereas the 570S/720S have the cleaner lines and more spaceship appearance IMO in line with the LT vs S dichotomy
I was surprised by the sound watching the cars fly by, especially because it seemed like the 570S sounded as good as the 600LT but this is at idle/low revs going <45 mph. I think if you can get over the sound (I'm sure at WOT it's insane), fix it, or accept it for what it is (not a NA 4 liter), they do look the business and have the exotic thing down
People on this thread are bashing McLaren but I'm glad they are competing in the space. Lambo/Ferrari/McLaren have that exotic sense of occasion down FWIW, maybe the GT stuff is just so good and so easy that it feels ordinary!
I can see why people move on from the GT product into the more exotic cars, I'm still considering it too
Porsche - The most reliable of the four. The best value. The best history. Performance on track is a level above the other three if you are running it session after session.
McLaren - Reliability is not their strength. Styling is the worst. Depreciation is oppressive. Performance is tops.
Lamborghini - Reliability is getting better but not Porsche level. Styling is better than McLaren but below Porsche and Ferrari. Emotion is best. Not my cup of tea. Performance on most models is last. Would not want to track it.
Ferrari - Reliability is probably below Porsche but above the others. Poor value relative to performance. Depreciation isn’t terrible on top cars but Porsche is still better. Sense of occasion is strong.
My perception (which could be very wrong) is that McLaren has three big strikes. I don’t like the looks. I don’t like the reliability. And i don’t like the big depreciation hit. They need to fix all three before i would consider one. Performance alone is not enough. Lamborghini are too much “look at me” and I don’t think they live up to the hype. Of the 4 this is the one brand i would probably never own. Ferrari is Ferrari, so i can definitely see myself buying one. But for what i would be paying a GT car would provide way more value. But it isn’t Ferrari. I can see myself owning one short term to get it out of my system, but once the novelty wears off I would be right back to Porsche.
Porsche just checks all the right boxes. For me. When you get in a GT car you are not pretending. You are not showing off. You are in a legit performance car. They are relatively affordable. They hold their value well. They drive and sound incredible. And they are extremely reliable. They also have the “German made” thing going, which is confidence inspiring. No other brand combines all these benefits imo.
I don’t want to bash McLaren (or any other brand) because we all get to make the calculations that determine what matters to us most. I am sure there are tons of McLaren and Lambo owners who feel their cars are awesome, and better than Porsche. I am not right. They are not wrong. Fortunately we have tons of great choices, and lucky is the guy who can afford these cars.
02-05-2019, 05:08 PM
#3177
It also has a mileage limit of 10k miles/year and only for cars 10 years old or younger and with 100k or fewer miles (which implies that the last 2 years have to be bought at once).
02-05-2019, 06:26 PM
#3178
Thanks for the info Sam. I too am glad McLaren is in the space. Nobody can sit back and relax. If I compare the 4 brands I feel like this:
Porsche - The most reliable of the four. The best value. The best history. Performance on track is a level above the other three if you are running it session after session.
McLaren - Reliability is not their strength. Styling is the worst. Depreciation is oppressive. Performance is tops.
Lamborghini - Reliability is getting better but not Porsche level. Styling is better than McLaren but below Porsche and Ferrari. Emotion is best. Not my cup of tea. Performance on most models is last. Would not want to track it.
Ferrari - Reliability is probably below Porsche but above the others. Poor value relative to performance. Depreciation isn’t terrible on top cars but Porsche is still better. Sense of occasion is strong.
My perception (which could be very wrong) is that McLaren has three big strikes. I don’t like the looks. I don’t like the reliability. And i don’t like the big depreciation hit. They need to fix all three before i would consider one. Performance alone is not enough. Lamborghini are too much “look at me” and I don’t think they live up to the hype. Of the 4 this is the one brand i would probably never own. Ferrari is Ferrari, so i can definitely see myself buying one. But for what i would be paying a GT car would provide way more value. But it isn’t Ferrari. I can see myself owning one short term to get it out of my system, but once the novelty wears off I would be right back to Porsche.
Porsche just checks all the right boxes. For me. When you get in a GT car you are not pretending. You are not showing off. You are in a legit performance car. They are relatively affordable. They hold their value well. They drive and sound incredible. And they are extremely reliable. They also have the “German made” thing going, which is confidence inspiring. No other brand combines all these benefits imo.
I don’t want to bash McLaren (or any other brand) because we all get to make the calculations that determine what matters to us most. I am sure there are tons of McLaren and Lambo owners who feel their cars are awesome, and better than Porsche. I am not right. They are not wrong. Fortunately we have tons of great choices, and lucky is the guy who can afford these cars.
Sam nailed it. Ferrari and Lambo provide a sense of occasion and make every drive an event that Porsche can't match. Pedestrians snap their necks, other drivers give thumbs up, kids have the widest smiles and camera phones are ubiquitous.
Where I live 911's are as common as Camry's and my GR GT3 doesn't get anymore attention than a Cayman. Obviously I love and respect the brand but it's not an exotic and short of the 918 never will be.
Finally, disagree with you as depreciation of the top Ferrari models i.e Speciale, Speciale Aperta, Pista is as good/ better as the Porsche GT cars.
02-05-2019, 06:55 PM
#3179
With regards to depreciation- has anyone seen the resale on Ferrari California let alone a 488. Ferrari is killing resale right now with their rebadged 488 coming out.
with regards to reliability, it seems to come up that Max’s are not reliable but that has not been my experience.
regalrdless, pulling up in a Lambo is an event. My McLaren literally stops traffic. In my Porsche’s, I’d get the occasional thumbs up.
It’s just a different experience with all the brands none of them bad.
with regards to reliability, it seems to come up that Max’s are not reliable but that has not been my experience.
regalrdless, pulling up in a Lambo is an event. My McLaren literally stops traffic. In my Porsche’s, I’d get the occasional thumbs up.
It’s just a different experience with all the brands none of them bad.
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zedosix (01-27-2021)
02-05-2019, 07:14 PM
#3180
With regards to depreciation- has anyone seen the resale on Ferrari California let alone a 488. Ferrari is killing resale right now with their rebadged 488 coming out.
with regards to reliability, it seems to come up that Max’s are not reliable but that has not been my experience.
regalrdless, pulling up in a Lambo is an event. My McLaren literally stops traffic. In my Porsche’s, I’d get the occasional thumbs up.
It’s just a different experience with all the brands none of them bad.
with regards to reliability, it seems to come up that Max’s are not reliable but that has not been my experience.
regalrdless, pulling up in a Lambo is an event. My McLaren literally stops traffic. In my Porsche’s, I’d get the occasional thumbs up.
It’s just a different experience with all the brands none of them bad.
Speciale/SA/TDF/Pista/Pista Spyder are going to command resale premiums barring an economic downturn.
Anyhow, ask a TTS/FF/Lusso owner about depreciation if you want to know what real pain is.
