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Old 01-10-2017, 10:25 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by GrantG View Post
Interesting, CJ. Sounds like Porsche is putting its best foot forward with the next GT2 RS (from some of the impressive rumors) in an effort to keep some of these customers from jumping ship. Porsche hasn't really had something that can run with a 675 as well as the 2RS may (but 720 on the way also)...
i am considering "jumping" to mclaren to avoid the BS of buying a Porsche where i can only buy the car i want by playing the ridiculous dealer bidding game.

would be curious to know if its performance vs ease of buying/owning a porsche?
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Old 01-10-2017, 10:33 PM
  #32  
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I have a deposit down on a P14 and couldn't be more excited. Will be interesting to see how the GT2 RS fares against this mid engine, carbon tubbed V8. I never underestimate Porsche but I suspect the bar will be raised very high this year.
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Old 01-11-2017, 12:23 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by C.J. Ichiban View Post
...

* I'd say 50% of our McLaren buyers are either GT3 owners or stepping up from GT3 /RS cars into a McLaren.

* focused on performance, and not status- we don't get drug dealer club promoter types nor do we get the flashy "business leasers" that I see at BMW, Mercedes and some of those brands. Generally our customers are relatively established, 45-55 yr old guys that LOVE driving and putting miles on their cars.
This describes me... Also, the McLaren sports and super sports series fills a niche/gap that Porsche does not currently have a car for (I do not consider the 570 and the 911 Turbo S competitors, the driving experience is very different). If Porsche had built the rumoured 960, I would have probably gone that route but I'm quite happy with my 650S. The combination of the GT3 and 650S is perfect for me.

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Old 01-11-2017, 03:13 AM
  #34  
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When the they make a road legal version... this will take all competitors up to 2x its price.
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Old 01-11-2017, 05:30 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by C.J. Ichiban View Post
if you go a little longer in between inspections and track days you can do 2-3 track days in between inspections...
To be fair in UK if you do a Mac event the cost is included. From a personal prospective, taking into account the speeds that these cars now do on track, I would prefer to that it gets inspected after each event.

The 2 big offs that I have seen at Silverstone last year, could have been avoided imv, had the cars been on a ramp before the events....
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Old 01-11-2017, 01:22 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by CAlexio View Post
When the they make a road legal version... this will take all competitors up to 2x its price.
Just wait for the mid-engined Corvette!

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Old 01-11-2017, 01:30 PM
  #37  
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McLaren has been very smart in their choice of time to enter the market, the price point toward the customer and technology.

The way they did it they never have to bother with anything but a carbon fiber tub. I expect that progress in material science will make all sports cars end up with some sort of CF base. That way they have a headstart in CF, a relationship with factories, never spent money on a metal base.

If they are financially stable they can just sit there and wait for materials progress to lower their prices to be more inclusive to new customer groups.

Plus those ***** sound awesome.
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Old 01-11-2017, 09:32 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by bronson7 View Post
Let's see where they are in 5-10 years. Let's all remember where the economy has been in the last few years....lot's of $$$ out there. Might not be the case in the near future.
Very true. Worth noting that McLaren's decision to produce cars coincided with a large investment from foreign investors. Mclaren's investor situation may actually make them better situated than some of their competitors in the event of an economic downturn. Plus they also do a decent amount of consulting and engineering through McLaren Applied Technologies.

Originally Posted by squid42 View Post
McLaren has been very smart in their choice of time to enter the market, the price point toward the customer and technology.

The way they did it they never have to bother with anything but a carbon fiber tub. I expect that progress in material science will make all sports cars end up with some sort of CF base. That way they have a headstart in CF, a relationship with factories, never spent money on a metal base.

If they are financially stable they can just sit there and wait for materials progress to lower their prices to be more inclusive to new customer groups.

Plus those ***** sound awesome.
For low production cars, carbon fiber costs less than aluminum. Any performance difference between the two has more to do with design than material selection. For example, the Lotus Elise aluminum chassis weighs 150 pounds whereas the Alfa Romeo 4C Spider carbon fiber chassis weighs 236 pounds (Coupe chassis weighs 143 pounds). If the 4C Spider chassis has the same torsional rigidity as the Coupe, then it weighs 45% more than the Elise chassis but only has 27% more torsional rigidity.
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Old 01-11-2017, 09:33 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by C.J. Ichiban View Post
if you go a little longer in between inspections and track days you can do 2-3 track days in between inspections...
C.J., I'm a little bit confused. You're not saying go beyond the recommended inspection period, correct? Also, have you had any problems (I ask because I'm almost positive that your Macs have seen track time). TIA.
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Old 01-12-2017, 05:39 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by enduro911 View Post
C.J., I'm a little bit confused. You're not saying go beyond the recommended inspection period, correct? Also, have you had any problems (I ask because I'm almost positive that your Macs have seen track time). TIA.
No I am saying that if you are doing a 2 day weekend, then you only need one pre and one post inspection. not one every single time. that would be impractical.
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Old 01-12-2017, 05:41 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Stgrt View Post
Very true. Worth noting that McLaren's decision to produce cars coincided with a large investment from foreign investors. Mclaren's investor situation may actually make them better situated than some of their competitors in the event of an economic downturn. Plus they also do a decent amount of consulting and engineering through McLaren Applied Technologies.



For low production cars, carbon fiber costs less than aluminum. Any performance difference between the two has more to do with design than material selection. For example, the Lotus Elise aluminum chassis weighs 150 pounds whereas the Alfa Romeo 4C Spider carbon fiber chassis weighs 236 pounds (Coupe chassis weighs 143 pounds). If the 4C Spider chassis has the same torsional rigidity as the Coupe, then it weighs 45% more than the Elise chassis but only has 27% more torsional rigidity.



The reality is that making a massive set of tooling and stamping for small volume is totally preposterously expensive.

CF allows you to effectively rapid prototype the cars and during development you can make fairly drastic changes to 10 varieties of stuff and have zero issues because the CF shape itself is malleable before the autoclave.

"hey this prototype handles like crap"
-oh, lets try mounting this next one like so..

etc
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incoming: Ford GT, Senna, BP23, lots of tire bills, financial ruin

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Old 01-12-2017, 05:46 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by tgibrit View Post
i am considering "jumping" to mclaren to avoid the BS of buying a Porsche where i can only buy the car i want by playing the ridiculous dealer bidding game.

would be curious to know if its performance vs ease of buying/owning a porsche?
well every mclaren outperforms every porsche it's compared against...usually mclarens are more expensive which is the biggest deterrent.

personally I think the 570GT is the prettiest car that offers the biggest compliment to the guy that has a track car/mixed use car. It's super comfortable, super exotic, and super luxurious. Has a magic carpet ride and room for luggage.

if you have only one sports car, and a truck or an suv as your second- then the 570S is a much more "track worthy" type car vs the GT. That being said- the 650S really still is a lot faster than the 570s in regards to lap times due to the bigger tires and more track set hydraulic suspension.

lots of options. my suggestion is to drive a few different models and see what speaks to you the most.

*if you drive the 570S on the track, you have to go ESC off*
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ITA: 458sp (sold), incoming Pasta Alfresco
Brazil: wife (keeper)

incoming: Ford GT, Senna, BP23, lots of tire bills, financial ruin

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Old 01-12-2017, 05:47 AM
  #43  
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Can 570gt be set up like the S with engine adjustments if you like the body style of the GT better?
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Old 01-12-2017, 07:00 AM
  #44  
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Now that we're on the topic of Macca.
How reliable are they - Mclaren in general, 570s specific - on track ?

I've heard several horror stories about heat soak, melting stuff, onboard computer throwing errors, change disks and pads, every 1-2 trackdays. Never seen a Macca do an entire trackday at my local track, always some sessions and than they seem to disappear. Is this any better with the 570s than it was with the 12c and 650s ?
I quite like the 570s, and I've considered getting one instead of the oncoming .2GT3, but the stories have kept me from following through with that plan ...

Little bit of my topic: just like CAlexio I do find the GT body style A LOT prettier :-)
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Old 01-12-2017, 07:52 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by C.J. Ichiban View Post
The reality is that making a massive set of tooling and stamping for small volume is totally preposterously expensive.

CF allows you to effectively rapid prototype the cars and during development you can make fairly drastic changes to 10 varieties of stuff and have zero issues because the CF shape itself is malleable before the autoclave.

"hey this prototype handles like crap"
-oh, lets try mounting this next one like so..

etc
Exactly and good point about development. I did not mean to sound critical of carbon fiber as I agree it makes perfect sense in this situation. But I do think that companies have misled consumers when it comes to some of the reasons behind design and engineering decisions.
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