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Old 02-01-2019, 01:37 PM
  #3121  
konaforever
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Originally Posted by yesyoucan
You should check out recall/manufacture/customer complaints on NHTSA website sometime. The real data would show that Porsche has the most problems of ferrari/mac/lambo by a very, very wide margin.

If people want to buy then they'll find a reason to buy. If they don't want to buy then they'll find a reason to not buy.

Depends what ones mindset is.
By total numbers or percentage? If total recalls, then not comparable since Porsche sells at lot more.
Old 02-01-2019, 01:41 PM
  #3122  
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Originally Posted by konaforever
By total numbers or percentage? If total recalls, then not comparable since Porsche sells at lot more.
Enter year make and or model

FILTER BY VEHICLE TYPE

All (189)PASSENGER CAR (189)
256 Results
for porsche 911VEHICLESRECALLS INVESTIGATION COMPLAINTS MANUFACTURER COMMUNICATIONS 2011 PORSCHE 911 GT3 2 DR RWD212182011 PORSCHE 911 GT3 RS 2 DR RWD212182011 PORSCHE 911 SPEEDSTER C RWD10072011 PORSCHE 911 TARGA 4 2 DR AWD00062011 PORSCHE 911 TARGA 4S 2 DR AWD00062011 PORSCHE 911 TURBO 2 DR AWD210112011 PORSCHE 911 TURBO CABRIOLET C AWD210112011 PORSCHE 911 TURBO S 2 DR AWD210112011 PORSCHE 911 TURBO S CABRIOLET C AWD210112010 PORSCHE 911 CARRERA 2 DR RWD0008prevPage 2 of 26​​​​​​



Obviously, an issue with one part affecting several cars which have that part would show a recall/communication/investigation for every one of them. Above is just a sample. Porsche is definitely more open towards disclosing "manufacture communications"
Old 02-01-2019, 01:44 PM
  #3123  
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Originally Posted by konaforever
By total numbers or percentage? If total recalls, then not comparable since Porsche sells at lot more.
It didn't come out right in above posting. Here's just an isolation of one particular model/car. The website will show the actual communications (the letter, etc.)

​​​​​​

29 Manufacturer Communicationsfor 2016 PORSCHE 911 GT3 RS

FILTER MANUFACTURER COMMUNICATIONS BY AFFECTED COMPONENTS

All (29)ELECTRICAL SYSTEM (7)ENGINE (4)ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING (4)EQUIPMENT (5)EQUIPMENT ADAPTIVE (1)FUEL SYSTEM, GASOLINE (1)POWER TRAIN (3)STRUCTURE (1)SUSPENSION (1)TIRES (2)VISIBILITY (2)WHEELS (2)
September 20, 2018 MANUFACTURER COMMUNICATION NUMBER: 122-V4Z5A-10
Components: POWER TRAIN
August 16, 2018 MANUFACTURER COMMUNICATION NUMBER: 122-Y9K4F-09
Components: WHEELS
August 16, 2018 MANUFACTURER COMMUNICATION NUMBER: 122-D7K9V-09
Components: ENGINE
August 14, 2018 MANUFACTURER COMMUNICATION NUMBER: 122-X4X7D-09
Components: ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING
July 20, 2018 MANUFACTURER COMMUNICATION NUMBER: 122-W9X4Z-08
Components: SUSPENSIO
Old 02-01-2019, 02:15 PM
  #3124  
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Originally Posted by carrera911me
Keep a selfie stick in the car and attach badge to it as needed. prob solved.
yep! on the list of things to buy this weekend.
fortunately wasn't so close that she couldn't open the door to get out.
Old 02-01-2019, 03:25 PM
  #3125  
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Highly optioned McLaren sold

Highly Optioned Senna Sold

Drive safe,
GT3RS-Fan1


Originally Posted by Saru385
yep! on the list of things to buy this weekend.
fortunately wasn't so close that she couldn't open the door to get out.
Old 02-01-2019, 03:29 PM
  #3126  
Waxer
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Originally Posted by yesyoucan
You should check out recall/manufacture/customer complaints on NHTSA website sometime. The real data would show that Porsche has the most problems of ferrari/mac/lambo by a very, very wide margin.

If people want to buy then they'll find a reason to buy. If they don't want to buy then they'll find a reason to not buy.

Depends what ones mindset is.
Well if you interpretation of the data is accurate than this just confirms the market has spoken and louder than I thought in view of the fact when Porsche GT cars come out people are still fighting in the streets to get one regardless of the NHTSA data.

More proof that the Mindset for the the vast majority is clearly “Porsche is still a Porsche”

Old 02-01-2019, 03:38 PM
  #3127  
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Originally Posted by yesyoucan
It didn't come out right in above posting. Here's just an isolation of one particular model/car. The website will show the actual communications (the letter, etc.)

​​​​​​

29 Manufacturer Communicationsfor 2016 PORSCHE 911 GT3 RS

FILTER MANUFACTURER COMMUNICATIONS BY AFFECTED COMPONENTS

All (29)ELECTRICAL SYSTEM (7)ENGINE (4)ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING (4)EQUIPMENT (5)EQUIPMENT ADAPTIVE (1)FUEL SYSTEM, GASOLINE (1)POWER TRAIN (3)STRUCTURE (1)SUSPENSION (1)TIRES (2)VISIBILITY (2)WHEELS (2)
September 20, 2018 MANUFACTURER COMMUNICATION NUMBER: 122-V4Z5A-10
Components: POWER TRAIN
August 16, 2018 MANUFACTURER COMMUNICATION NUMBER: 122-Y9K4F-09
Components: WHEELS
August 16, 2018 MANUFACTURER COMMUNICATION NUMBER: 122-D7K9V-09
Components: ENGINE
August 14, 2018 MANUFACTURER COMMUNICATION NUMBER: 122-X4X7D-09
Components: ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING
July 20, 2018 MANUFACTURER COMMUNICATION NUMBER: 122-W9X4Z-08
Components: SUSPENSIO
The issue with a McLaren isn’t that it has problems or more problems than another marque but it’s more that it takes so fcking damn long for them to fix something as parts are basically a la minute. That’s assuming you can easily get to a McLaren dealership.

With Porsche, even if you have multiple problems they are easily addressed as the dealership network is fulsome and well established and parts shortage, while not uncommon, rarely will result in the car being out of service for an extended period of time (like months at a time).
Old 02-01-2019, 03:40 PM
  #3128  
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Originally Posted by Waxer


Well this just confirms the market has spoken and louder than I thought in view of the fact when Porsche GT cars come out people are still fighting in the streets to get one regardless of the NHTSA data.

Mindset for the the vast majority is clearly “Porsche is still a Porsche”

Do you speak for many with "porsche is still a porsche" or for people who buy across the various marques?. Porsche GT cars are at a different price point then mac's and ferrari's.

Old 02-01-2019, 03:43 PM
  #3129  
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Originally Posted by ipse dixit


The issue with a McLaren isn’t that it has problems or more problems than another marque but it’s more that it takes so fcking damn long for them to fix something as parts are basically a la minute. That’s assuming you can easily get to a McLaren dealership.

With Porsche, even if you have multiple problems they are easily addressed as the dealership network is fulsome and well established and parts shortage, while not uncommon, rarely will result in the car being out of service for an extended period of time (like months at a time).
How many examples do you have of being months at a time and when did that occur? They have parts supply in the States now.

Longest I've been down waiting for something was two weeks (cracked windshield due to stone chip on track)... and I've owned 6 mac's with cumulative 28K miles.
Old 02-01-2019, 03:45 PM
  #3130  
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Originally Posted by yesyoucan
Do you speak for many with "porsche is still a porsche" or for people who buy across the various marques?. Porsche GT cars are at a different price point then mac's and ferrari's.

My experience with how many across all Marques view Porsche is as a high end and quality German made performance brand.

Mac doesnt have that perception
or at least not yet.
Old 02-01-2019, 05:11 PM
  #3131  
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Originally Posted by Waxer

My experience with how many across all Marques view Porsche is as a high end and quality German made performance brand.

Mac doesnt have that perception
or at least not yet.
First; I am no apologist for Mclaren. I am not marque loyal and I could care less for Mclaren management in the U.K. I like my dealer, i like their cars. I also like porsche, ferrari and lambo.

Mclaren has made 17,000 cars. I'd estimate that servicing/warranty work, etc. is probably 100,000 touches by dealers. If cars were down for significant amount of time then there would be a lot of people screaming about it.... vs. the handful of people who like to bellyache about a random down time here and there.

Many have bought multiple mclarens. People generally remember if they had bad experiences and they would be one and done.

There is no such thing as a "mclaren guy". There is such a thing for Porsche and Ferrari. People who are brand loyal and don't stray from those marque's. They'll come up with all types of reasons to buy, not buy or create a certain narrative of what they do or don't do.

Go to a track day... Mclaren guy goes home early for whatever reason and some might think it's mechanical, it actually might be something else. Random porsche doesn't complete the track day and no one notices because there are so many out there. Simraceway at Sonoma used to have a Mclaren track experience for corporate events, track rental, etc. Money making businesses which depend on these cars won't hitch a ride to unrealiable cars that will be down. (note; they did this in conjunction with my local dealer which is quite a bit different then a random exotic car track rental program).

I just sold my Senna. I can make a bunch of different reasons why I may have done that (sort of like former owners of any car who create a reason to satisfy others and the easiest one to convince others without making themselves look weak is to say that the car wasn't mechanically fit).
Old 02-01-2019, 05:52 PM
  #3132  
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i got to drive the 570 Spider this morning.
everything worked fine.
heater blows hot.
enjoyed the drive.

Macan still in the shop.
waiting for a part from Germany.
car went in on Monday.
same issue that i just got it back for last Friday.

everybody's got a story
Old 02-01-2019, 06:17 PM
  #3133  
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Originally Posted by docjohnM
The depreciation slows quite a bit after that. Just make sure it has a warranty for every single day you own it!! :-)
If warranty is a requirement, then depreciation will only accelerate as the car approaches the end of warranty.
Old 02-01-2019, 08:33 PM
  #3134  
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Originally Posted by yesyoucan
How many examples do you have of being months at a time and when did that occur? They have parts supply in the States now.

Longest I've been down waiting for something was two weeks (cracked windshield due to stone chip on track)... and I've owned 6 mac's with cumulative 28K miles.
Within the past 12 months.

570 GT in the shop for 2 months because of IRIS issues
650S in the shop for 3 months for a faulty brake sensor. Ultimately lemon'd.
570 Spyder in the shot for nearly 3 weeks due to a loose latch of some sort (not sure what)

Yes, I know that Mac has built a parts facility in the U.S. and that's great news. But until they increase their dealership network (both in terms of geography and density), it's just a hard sell for me. And I like McLarens, but I daily my cars, and given the hurdles that McLaren currently presents for an owner who relies on his car as a daily transportation conduit it's just not worth my time. Maybe in a year or two things will be different and I'll pick up a 750LT ...
Old 02-01-2019, 09:02 PM
  #3135  
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Originally Posted by yesyoucan
First; I am no apologist for Mclaren. I am not marque loyal and I could care less for Mclaren management in the U.K. I like my dealer, i like their cars. I also like porsche, ferrari and lambo.

Mclaren has made 17,000 cars. I'd estimate that servicing/warranty work, etc. is probably 100,000 touches by dealers. If cars were down for significant amount of time then there would be a lot of people screaming about it.... vs. the handful of people who like to bellyache about a random down time here and there.

Many have bought multiple mclarens. People generally remember if they had bad experiences and they would be one and done.

There is no such thing as a "mclaren guy". There is such a thing for Porsche and Ferrari. People who are brand loyal and don't stray from those marque's. They'll come up with all types of reasons to buy, not buy or create a certain narrative of what they do or don't do.

Go to a track day... Mclaren guy goes home early for whatever reason and some might think it's mechanical, it actually might be something else. Random porsche doesn't complete the track day and no one notices because there are so many out there. Simraceway at Sonoma used to have a Mclaren track experience for corporate events, track rental, etc. Money making businesses which depend on these cars won't hitch a ride to unrealiable cars that will be down. (note; they did this in conjunction with my local dealer which is quite a bit different then a random exotic car track rental program).

I just sold my Senna. I can make a bunch of different reasons why I may have done that (sort of like former owners of any car who create a reason to satisfy others and the easiest one to convince others without making themselves look weak is to say that the car wasn't mechanically fit).
The fact that you owned a Senna and just sold it just reinforces the negative perceptions many have of Macs. It was obviously a short term ownership.

I personally like McLarens a lot
but Mac imho just doesn’t get it. With the reputation for poor quality and reliability the fix is easy. Offer very reasonably priced extended and renewable warranties to boost confidence and which will increase the willingness to buy them both used and new and cut out the requirement for post track inspections which just further reinforces the perception your product can’t hack it and is a pita. This in turn will increase resale values imho



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