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Old 02-17-2017, 09:48 AM
  #286  
Apolo1
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Originally Posted by drdonger View Post
Again, in my original post I was comparing the 570 to the Turbo S. No one is trying to argue that the 991 GT3 RS is not a better car than the 570. I was comparing the Turbo S to the 570GT.

Sound alone would be a deal breaker for me.

"


Sorry my mistake, on my reading of your post as set out above you had included the GT2 RS and 720s for comparison Purpose.

Whilst both the 720 and 2RS are not out yet. I see no reason as to why the 2RS will cost more to run as track car as the 91RS, and like wise for the 7S over the LT.

Having said, it may well be that the 7S is so good to drive on track, that's its dam with the cost, lets just do it.

I fully agree with you though that from a fun interaction point for road use, even though I have only drove a 570 over a weekend I would put it above my 91RS and My Turbo S. That aside to poor weather condition's, then the Turbo S has no equal imv

Last edited by Apolo1; 02-17-2017 at 10:53 AM.
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Old 02-17-2017, 09:50 AM
  #287  
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Originally Posted by Apolo1
Hi Morning...

Actually in comparison to the replacement cost of CCBDs on the 91RS to the LT, the cost is about 2 times on the 91RS. Pads are about 50% more for the 91RS.

But whist the LT discs do wear out in line with what the maker intended. The CCBDs on the 91RS are much harder wearing. Mine CCBDs after 34 events and 10k miles have very little wear, along with on 2nd set of Pads.....I do on average 200-220 track miles on an event( though I admit some days have been fogged or rained off) I take it you are aware of the ceramic coating on the CCBDs that are unique to VAG as a group. Aside to one other that being AMG.

Sorry, but I have zero experience of the steel Discs on Porsche or any Mac car.....I am aware of the none OEM CCBDs that are available for LTs, along with the excellent value performance that they offer. How would this work if the car was to be resold through the Mac network, I presume that a set of OEM would have purchased? Maybe the thing to do is put the OEM ones in a box on day one and just fit the aftermarket ones.

Over the above time frame my 91RS Has cost less than 9K GBP, to run. This to include tyres, Pads, Oil and brake fluid Changes, and though not required for warranty purpose post inspections, but like to keep safe..

If I had done the same about of events in my LT based on usage over a couple of events the cost would have been a whole lot more. Though I agree that the after market discs would help reduce this..

I know a bit about the 2RS, not expecting this be more than my 91RS from a on track cost prospective.
Ok so let me get this straight- you have done 34 events and have not spent more than 9,000GBP on consumables?

Sorry but that is poppycock- at least at the speeds that I drive- 34 days would cost me 10-14 sets of tires/tyres in almost any car, let alone something with 500HP. And that would cost me 23,000-30,000 in tires/tyres. That's over 15,000 GBP right there (and 3 days on a set of front Turbo or rear GT3RS tires...ice blocks by the end of the second day)

Anyone else have some comparable data on this?

Hoosiers never lasted more than 16-18 heat cycles before being completely worthless, MPSC usually get 3-4 days but without a perfect setup will see one corner or a whole side be totally cooked, and Pirelli Corsas or Trofeos only last 2.5 days max. Kumho's are roasted in 1.5 days and maybe the NT01 can go the magic 4-5??
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Old 02-17-2017, 10:23 AM
  #288  
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Originally Posted by C.J. Ichiban View Post
Ok so let me get this straight- you have done 34 events and have not spent more than 9,000GBP on consumables?

Sorry but that is poppycock- at least at the speeds that I drive- 34 days would cost me 10-14 sets of tires/tyres in almost any car, let alone something with 500HP. And that would cost me 23,000-30,000 in tires/tyres. That's over 15,000 GBP right there (and 3 days on a set of front Turbo or rear GT3RS tires...ice blocks by the end of the second day)

Anyone else have some comparable data on this?

Hoosiers never lasted more than 16-18 heat cycles before being completely worthless, MPSC usually get 3-4 days but without a perfect setup will see one corner or a whole side be totally cooked, and Pirelli Corsas or Trofeos only last 2.5 days max. Kumho's are roasted in 1.5 days and maybe the NT01 can go the magic 4-5??
My Car is a July 15.
I only attend one circuit that being Silverstone. From the time I have owned my car up to last Dec I have attended the track 34 times. Like I said some days are just to wet to drive more than a few laps. One was fogged off, I would put these days at around 5-6. I complete around 200 track miles per event. I drive as hard as traffic condition's allow. Down the long straight's I see over 1.6gs under braking. I only run the OEM Cup 2s., I have the Geo Checked about every 3-4 events. With regard to the Cup 2s, I don't find tread wear to be a problem, its more an issue with heat cycle's. After to many they just loose grip.

My expense's over the above time are as follows.

Cup 2s, 1300 x 3 3900.00,
Pads 1500.00 x 2 3000.00
Oil and Filter and Brake Fluid Change 2000.00.

On top of this I have a on ramp walk round inspection after most events, along with Geo Check as above. Also the above does not include the tyres and Pads that came with the car. The above is usage to date.....

Yes I am aware that Trofeos do not last long on track, 2.5 days at best, but i have never ran them on a Porsche.

Maybe I need to drive harder......Lol

Last edited by Apolo1; 02-17-2017 at 10:52 AM.
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Old 02-17-2017, 11:38 AM
  #289  
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I imagine running on a cool damp track in the UK probably makes the tires last longer too...
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Old 02-17-2017, 11:46 AM
  #290  
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Originally Posted by C.J. Ichiban View Post
Ok so let me get this straight- you have done 34 events and have not spent more than 9,000GBP on consumables?

Sorry but that is poppycock- at least at the speeds that I drive- 34 days would cost me 10-14 sets of tires/tyres in almost any car, let alone something with 500HP. And that would cost me 23,000-30,000 in tires/tyres. That's over 15,000 GBP right there (and 3 days on a set of front Turbo or rear GT3RS tires...ice blocks by the end of the second day)

Anyone else have some comparable data on this?

Hoosiers never lasted more than 16-18 heat cycles before being completely worthless, MPSC usually get 3-4 days but without a perfect setup will see one corner or a whole side be totally cooked, and Pirelli Corsas or Trofeos only last 2.5 days max. Kumho's are roasted in 1.5 days and maybe the NT01 can go the magic 4-5??
Most of my track days at MidAmerica Motorplex are without run groups, so lots of driving. I regularly limit myself to two tank of gas as a measurement. On the 997.2 RS the BRG-F1 tires last about 12-14 runs (heat cycles) that is usually 2 full or 4 half days. It is mainly the heat cycle and not so much tread loss. The R6 and A6 are similar - maybe slightly more grip, maybe.
Then pads; on PCCB change pads with the tires. PCCB is a pain in the...
I do not like to calculate the cost. Just too depressing. Or just calculate it in fine wines and the question is to go out or have two nice bottles. Last year wine won more often!!
By the way my wife MX-5 is a fraction of the cost! and just as much fun!!
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Old 02-17-2017, 11:54 AM
  #291  
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Originally Posted by drdonger View Post
I was referring to the Turbo S and GT2 RS, not the Gt3 or GT3 RS. Both have carbon ceramics, which are a lot more expensive than the steels on the 570GT and ceramics on the 570s and 720s as CJ mentioned. IMO the 570 beats the Turbo S in every categor except reliability (maybe).
Looks
Comfort
Performance
Resale
Sound

https://youtu.be/CiT9CC1x5lw
A lot of people would disagree with you on the above. Very subjective and all personal preference. For me, the Turbo S would get the nod due to:

Looks
Interior
Performance is a wash
All weather capabilities
Better DD, more space
Normal doors
Dealer network
Resale is a wash, they'll both depreciate like rocks in water

If I can't get a GT3 allocation, I'm probably going to be choosing between these cars and right now the Turbo S would get the nod.
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Old 02-17-2017, 12:03 PM
  #292  
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Originally Posted by IRguy View Post
Most of my track days at MidAmerica Motorplex are without run groups, so lots of driving. I regularly limit myself to two tank of gas as a measurement. On the 997.2 RS the BRG-F1 tires last about 12-14 runs (heat cycles) that is usually 2 full or 4 half days. It is mainly the heat cycle and not so much tread loss. The R6 and A6 are similar - maybe slightly more grip, maybe.
Then pads; on PCCB change pads with the tires. PCCB is a pain in the...
I do not like to calculate the cost. Just too depressing. Or just calculate it in fine wines and the question is to go out or have two nice bottles. Last year wine won more often!!
By the way my wife MX-5 is a fraction of the cost! and just as much fun!!
The CCBDs on the 97RS, and not Like for like as in on the 91RS, the ceramic coated ones first came in on the 91Turbo S in July 13 then on GT3 later that year, then 91RS in 15. They last a whole lot longer than the un-coated ones on 7RS.

Same for the Cups, the new compound on the 91RS, lasts a lot longer from wear prospective. Though does suffer with heat cycles, takes about 2 dial downs then they will sit there. I fill up outside the track and have to fill up to get home. Use 3-4 tanks in between.

My G-Reading and Fronts on 2nd set, at time of replacing....No doubt the lower temps help here in UK.

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Old 02-17-2017, 12:08 PM
  #293  
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Originally Posted by Archimedes View Post
A lot of people would disagree with you on the above. Very subjective and all personal preference. For me, the Turbo S would get the nod due to:

Looks
Interior
Performance is a wash
All weather capabilities
Better DD, more space
Normal doors
Dealer network
Resale is a wash, they'll both depreciate like rocks in water

If I can't get a GT3 allocation, I'm probably going to be choosing between these cars and right now the Turbo S would get the nod.
The Turbo S is depreciating faster than the 570.
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Old 02-17-2017, 12:10 PM
  #294  
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Originally Posted by fastmd View Post
The Turbo S is depreciating faster than the 570.
Not in UK.....
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Old 02-17-2017, 12:31 PM
  #295  
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I've seen some 2016 Turbo S' for 40-50k off new msrp with only 4k miles. Find me a 570 50k off with 4k mikes and I'm a buyer.
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Old 02-17-2017, 12:34 PM
  #296  
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Originally Posted by drdonger View Post
I've seen some 2016 Turbo S' for 40-50k off new msrp with only 4k miles. Find me a 570 50k off with 4k mikes and I'm a buyer.
Previous gen car... Not a direct comparison.
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Old 02-17-2017, 02:41 PM
  #297  
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Least of my worries would be depreciation, as I'd be buying it to drive it. Many variables in play, but I keep coming back to the fact that there's nothing on the Turbo S that would be a 'but' for me, but there are a few on the 570S (looks, doors, ingress/egress, interior, brakes, etc.). Won't know which I prefer until I drive them both. Which I'm hoping I won't have to do because I get a GT3 allocation...
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Old 02-17-2017, 02:52 PM
  #298  
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Originally Posted by Archimedes View Post
Least of my worries would be depreciation, as I'd be buying it to drive it. Many variables in play, but I keep coming back to the fact that there's nothing on the Turbo S that would be a 'but' for me, but there are a few on the 570S (looks, doors, ingress/egress, interior, brakes, etc.). Won't know which I prefer until I drive them both. Which I'm hoping I won't have to do because I get a GT3 allocation...
In tight places the 570/650s doors are easier to use than the traditional doors. In my garage I have more trouble getting in and out of the GTS than the 650S.
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Old 02-17-2017, 03:28 PM
  #299  
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Originally Posted by IRguy View Post
In tight places the 570/650s doors are easier to use than the traditional doors. In my garage I have more trouble getting in and out of the GTS than the 650S.
My issue with the doors wouldn't be function, but attention. I like to be less conspicuous and it's hard to be inconspicuous with billionaire doors.
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Old 02-17-2017, 03:38 PM
  #300  
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Originally Posted by Archimedes View Post
My issue with the doors wouldn't be function, but attention. I like to be less conspicuous and it's hard to be inconspicuous with billionaire doors.
Go for the pcar. Mclaren gets a lot more attention, which does get old.

No one bothers me when I drive my Porsches.
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