991.2 is 3.8 and RS.2???
11-25-2016, 01:20 PM
#61
Burning Brakes
The 991.2 c2s with Pilot Sports/P zeros and 420hp is almost as fast as the 991.1 GT3. With MPSC2 and 30 more hp, the GTS would be faster than a 485hp 3.8 GT3. There is not enough torque in the 3.8. The GT3 needs a 4.0 with a wider torque curve and 495hp.
It doesn't make sense that GT3 cup cars in the past have been the same displacement as the road car, but they revert back to lower displacement for the 991.2.
http://www.autoevolution.com/news/2016-porsche-911-carrera-s-turbo-laps-nurburgring-in-734-sport-auto-test-107396.html
Throw on some MPSC2's and that 7:34 would be a 7:25.
It doesn't make sense that GT3 cup cars in the past have been the same displacement as the road car, but they revert back to lower displacement for the 991.2.
http://www.autoevolution.com/news/2016-porsche-911-carrera-s-turbo-laps-nurburgring-in-734-sport-auto-test-107396.html
Throw on some MPSC2's and that 7:34 would be a 7:25.
11-25-2016, 01:20 PM
#62
Nordschleife Master
The 991.2 c2s with Pilot Sports/P zeros and 420hp is almost as fast as the 991.1 GT3. With MPSC2 and 30 more hp, the GTS would be faster than a 485hp 3.8 GT3. There is not enough torque in the 3.8. The GT3 needs a 4.0 with a wider torque curve and 495hp.
It doesn't make sense that GT3 cup cars in the past have been the same displacement as the road car, but they revert back to lower displacement for the 991.2.
http://www.autoevolution.com/news/20...st-107396.html
Throw on some MPSC2's and that 7:34 would be a 7:25.
It doesn't make sense that GT3 cup cars in the past have been the same displacement as the road car, but they revert back to lower displacement for the 991.2.
http://www.autoevolution.com/news/20...st-107396.html
Throw on some MPSC2's and that 7:34 would be a 7:25.
My counter to your positon (and not saying you couldn't be right but I disagree and agree with Rosenbergendo) is the GT3 engine revs higher than a GTS TT, will get a bump in torque and have aero and likely at least 150 lbs lighter that will keep it ahead of the GTS on the track. Maybe close 0-60 but track cars aren't 0-60.
GT3RS bests many TT and other higher hp and higher torque cars in track times. Look at the list of Laguna Seca times. Just look at the cars running behind the GT3RS which have more hp and torque.
Hp and torque is only part of the formula for fast lap times.
11-25-2016, 01:45 PM
#63
Three Wheelin'
11-26-2016, 02:00 PM
#64
Three Wheelin'
Lets stay stock. We can add and subtract from any car to change the analysis.
My counter to your positon (and not saying you couldn't be right but I disagree and agree with Rosenbergendo) is the GT3 engine revs higher than a GTS TT, will get a bump in torque and have aero and likely at least 150 lbs lighter that will keep it ahead of the GTS on the track. Maybe close 0-60 but track cars aren't 0-60.
GT3RS bests many TT and other higher hp and higher torque cars in track times. Look at the list of Laguna Seca times. Just look at the cars running behind the GT3RS which have more hp and torque.
Hp and torque is only part of the formula for fast lap times.
My counter to your positon (and not saying you couldn't be right but I disagree and agree with Rosenbergendo) is the GT3 engine revs higher than a GTS TT, will get a bump in torque and have aero and likely at least 150 lbs lighter that will keep it ahead of the GTS on the track. Maybe close 0-60 but track cars aren't 0-60.
GT3RS bests many TT and other higher hp and higher torque cars in track times. Look at the list of Laguna Seca times. Just look at the cars running behind the GT3RS which have more hp and torque.
Hp and torque is only part of the formula for fast lap times.
11-26-2016, 02:25 PM
#65
Nordschleife Master
With stock tires I will agree with you. Throw on equal tires and it is a whole new ball game. The 991.2 C2s would be as fast as the current 991.1 GT3 and the 991.2 Turbo S would be as fast as the 991.1 GT3 RS with equal tires. Don't get me wrong, I would still take a GT car. My point is a 4.0L gt3 would make more sense.
I do agree everyone would prefer to see the 4.0 in the new GT3 but they will still sell like "candy" even with a 3.8 with a bump to 485 hp and torque, mt option, better aero and the G engine updates. Likely will see a change in ECU mapping to get more torque too. Maybe not as much as the TT C2S but the GT3 will be higher reving, will have more hp at higher rpm and lighter with better arero.
GT3 will still be faster by a 2-3 ticks. MHO. No way PAG is going to have the new C2S out gun the next GT3 on the track
11-26-2016, 02:31 PM
#66
Addict
Rennlist Member
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There will be no meaningful bump in peak torque if the displacement stays at 3.8L and NA. In order to make even more HP than 475 from the same NA displacement as 991.1 GT3, it's not possible to make a motor more focused on low-end torque. Still think 4.0L makes more sense.
11-26-2016, 02:33 PM
#67
Race Director
also, a hybrid RS drivetrain introduced during the mid-term model facelift with same chassis.
11-26-2016, 03:15 PM
#68
Drifting
Implications of 3.8L in GT3 (IMO):
"Protects" the 911 R, as that would be the only 991 with manual and 4.0L
A relatively small performance gap between GT3 and GTS on paper, and probably a dead heat in the real world
991.2 GT3RS is more likely, with 4.0L
Implications of 4.0L in GT3 (IMO):
Higher base MSRP due to additional feature content (more displacement) and the exotic alloy used in the crankshaft
991.2 GT3 RS is less likely; the factory won't go beyond 4.0L
"Protects" the 911 R, as that would be the only 991 with manual and 4.0L
A relatively small performance gap between GT3 and GTS on paper, and probably a dead heat in the real world
991.2 GT3RS is more likely, with 4.0L
Implications of 4.0L in GT3 (IMO):
Higher base MSRP due to additional feature content (more displacement) and the exotic alloy used in the crankshaft
991.2 GT3 RS is less likely; the factory won't go beyond 4.0L
11-26-2016, 04:30 PM
#69
Drifting
Talked to two dealers - same story on GT3.
Personally a GT3RS 2011 makes more sense but that's just me.
GT3RS no one knows.
They are working on things but who knows it's anyones guess the closer it gets to 2017 - 18 expect a hybrid. They made a late run on the GT3RS my guess that it's done.
Personally a GT3RS 2011 makes more sense but that's just me.
GT3RS no one knows.
They are working on things but who knows it's anyones guess the closer it gets to 2017 - 18 expect a hybrid. They made a late run on the GT3RS my guess that it's done.
11-26-2016, 04:39 PM
#71
Rennlist Member
Goes to show you, with upcoming GT intel passed down to different people that are truly "in the know" varying as much as it does, even the "trusted sources" that pass along this intel are somehow building conclusions off of comments they hear from Porsche. That, and/or, Porsche literally waffles back/forth enough during the development that the intel coming out is true one month and dated the next. I'm sure all the details for 991.2gt3 are clearly locked as we speak. But hints about 4.0 vs 3.8 could have been valid 6 mos ago and irrelevant today.
Given this much variability from credited RL'ers, this late in the game, I consider it ALL speculation until it's unveiled in March. My gut says 4.0 because it's progress and a known product already, but I wouldn't bet the change in my pocket on that gut call.
Given this much variability from credited RL'ers, this late in the game, I consider it ALL speculation until it's unveiled in March. My gut says 4.0 because it's progress and a known product already, but I wouldn't bet the change in my pocket on that gut call.
11-26-2016, 04:43 PM
#72
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by nuvolari612
Talked to two dealers - same story on GT3. .
Originally Posted by nuvolari612
Personally a GT3RS 2011 makes more sense but that's just me.
11-26-2016, 05:10 PM
#73
Drifting
GT3 manual same story as OP.
GT3RS 2011 IMO a better buy than a new GT3 manual.
Bottom line - no one can order a new GT3RS today and Porsche is headed towards hybrid if the 2016 GT3RS is the last NA or they make a short limited run which only 918 guys receive 16 GT3RS is worth every penny too me as I despise hybrid power in any form.
Satco has the right idea
GT3RS 2011 IMO a better buy than a new GT3 manual.
Bottom line - no one can order a new GT3RS today and Porsche is headed towards hybrid if the 2016 GT3RS is the last NA or they make a short limited run which only 918 guys receive 16 GT3RS is worth every penny too me as I despise hybrid power in any form.
Satco has the right idea
11-26-2016, 05:34 PM
#74
Race Car
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11-26-2016, 05:37 PM
#75
GT3 player par excellence
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