911R Driving Impressions
10-13-2016, 10:51 PM
#46
Banned
Congratulations on the new acquisition. Enjoy along with many year of health. I must say I enjoyed reading your very well written and informative post. From the time that I've heard about the R. I instantly knew it was going to be very special in a way that no other car is. A time capsule of sorts but only made better through modern engineering. I'm sure, brilliantly executed as well.
I'm finding your observation about the rev matching on unshifting very interesting. I own a 991 GTS and have never experienced a need for rev match on upshifts. In fact I never even knew it existed until another member pointed it out. What your probably experiencing is the ultra light wieght of the crank and flywheel assembly reducing inertia so quickly. That the engines revs are falling below the following gears optimal rotational speed. I'm guessing there are two ways to combat that from occurring. Faster shifting or electronic assistance. Either way it sounds like porsche has really put a lot of effort into producing that race motor. It must be a blast to drive.
I'm finding your observation about the rev matching on unshifting very interesting. I own a 991 GTS and have never experienced a need for rev match on upshifts. In fact I never even knew it existed until another member pointed it out. What your probably experiencing is the ultra light wieght of the crank and flywheel assembly reducing inertia so quickly. That the engines revs are falling below the following gears optimal rotational speed. I'm guessing there are two ways to combat that from occurring. Faster shifting or electronic assistance. Either way it sounds like porsche has really put a lot of effort into producing that race motor. It must be a blast to drive.
10-13-2016, 11:04 PM
#47
its that human emotion called jealousy and you can see it at work a mile away. he didn't / can't get one. so he vents and shts on other ppl's threads to make himself feel better about it. but it doesn't work. i think there are a few of these sad sobs on here that have emerged this year and its making this forum lame.
10-14-2016, 01:30 AM
#49
GT3 player par excellence
Lifetime Rennlist
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R is a great car. too bad i can't get one.
but i see no need to **** on other's joy.
may not do it for everyone, but an R is an R.
best to have R and RS, blonde and brunett, maybe even a redhead.
but i see no need to **** on other's joy.
may not do it for everyone, but an R is an R.
best to have R and RS, blonde and brunett, maybe even a redhead.
10-14-2016, 01:42 AM
#50
Race Car
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: The way to hell is paved by good intentions “Wenn ich Purist höre...entsichere ich meinen Browning” "Myths are fuel for marketing (and nowadays for flippers too,,,)" time to time is not sufficient to be a saint, you must be also an Hero
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R on backroads is lighter thus faster than RS
At 150mph on track RS is more stable and PDK fill the R RS weight gap
At 150mph on track RS is more stable and PDK fill the R RS weight gap
10-14-2016, 04:17 AM
#51
@ OP
Nice write up and thank you for taking the time to post. Apart from my self I know to about 7 other R owner's, we all own other cars, think 5 of us have a 91RS and all track when we have time.
Your views are in line with ours, almost word for word, I have been driving 911s for over 30 years. The R is a very special car. Interesting point about it feels like another "Map" has kicked in after about 1k miles. I am well used to the Likes of GT3, RSs etc feeling quicker after the run in period, but the R feels like it has had a ECU upgrade, also sounds a lot louder on both start up and through the gears.
Nice write up and thank you for taking the time to post. Apart from my self I know to about 7 other R owner's, we all own other cars, think 5 of us have a 91RS and all track when we have time.
Your views are in line with ours, almost word for word, I have been driving 911s for over 30 years. The R is a very special car. Interesting point about it feels like another "Map" has kicked in after about 1k miles. I am well used to the Likes of GT3, RSs etc feeling quicker after the run in period, but the R feels like it has had a ECU upgrade, also sounds a lot louder on both start up and through the gears.
Last edited by Apolo1; 10-14-2016 at 07:30 AM.
10-14-2016, 10:11 AM
#53
Nordschleife Master
Per neanicu's request elsewhere, some quick thoughts on the R after a quick drive in one last summer:
-Somehow manages to sound like a 1980s Carrera 3.2—albeit a demonic one—around town despite its water jackets. In other words, the R is LOUD and super mechanical. Love that.
-Optional LWF is great, and I'd have to have it (but you gotta like that rattle, like I do).
-Everything else about the car is nicely refined. It doesn't beat you up.
-Handling seems great, with lots of grip like any 991 GT3, but I only did relatively low-speed curvy road stuff—and not enough of it...maybe 20-40 minutes.
-New gearbox is nice, but not as nice-shifting as GT4 box.
-Engine is as manic as it is in the RS, but you've got less grip so that makes it more exciting.
-Epic power and long runs to redline make finding a place to uncork the R at least as difficult as it is in the RS, and then you've got to be on your game with the shifter.
-Love the R's lack of a rear wing and its toned down looks—it's a nice complement alongside the also great looking GT3 RS. On aesthetics, I'd go R, because I like sleepers. Mine would be PTS Oak Green Metallic (unlikely as that would be), or "more realistically" GT Silver on gray wheels with no stripes. The only way to make it more desirable, for me, would be to add rear seats.
-Didn't have as much time with the R as I would have liked, but I was thankful to get some time in at all.
-For a street-mainly 911, I prefer R to RS. For a track-mainly car, I prefer RS. Seems like someone got that brief right.
-Sadly, price is an unavoidable subject with the R. So is the R worth it in a day of $130k Carrera Ss and 911 Turbos? At MSRP, maybe. At current market price? To me? Um....no—but we know how much that matters.
-Bring on the 991-2 GT3 manual. Please add options for some special colors, wing delete, and back seats.
-Somehow manages to sound like a 1980s Carrera 3.2—albeit a demonic one—around town despite its water jackets. In other words, the R is LOUD and super mechanical. Love that.
-Optional LWF is great, and I'd have to have it (but you gotta like that rattle, like I do).
-Everything else about the car is nicely refined. It doesn't beat you up.
-Handling seems great, with lots of grip like any 991 GT3, but I only did relatively low-speed curvy road stuff—and not enough of it...maybe 20-40 minutes.
-New gearbox is nice, but not as nice-shifting as GT4 box.
-Engine is as manic as it is in the RS, but you've got less grip so that makes it more exciting.
-Epic power and long runs to redline make finding a place to uncork the R at least as difficult as it is in the RS, and then you've got to be on your game with the shifter.
-Love the R's lack of a rear wing and its toned down looks—it's a nice complement alongside the also great looking GT3 RS. On aesthetics, I'd go R, because I like sleepers. Mine would be PTS Oak Green Metallic (unlikely as that would be), or "more realistically" GT Silver on gray wheels with no stripes. The only way to make it more desirable, for me, would be to add rear seats.
-Didn't have as much time with the R as I would have liked, but I was thankful to get some time in at all.
-For a street-mainly 911, I prefer R to RS. For a track-mainly car, I prefer RS. Seems like someone got that brief right.
-Sadly, price is an unavoidable subject with the R. So is the R worth it in a day of $130k Carrera Ss and 911 Turbos? At MSRP, maybe. At current market price? To me? Um....no—but we know how much that matters.
-Bring on the 991-2 GT3 manual. Please add options for some special colors, wing delete, and back seats.
10-14-2016, 10:51 AM
#54
A few more comments…
Preuninger’s break-in recommendation is 5k rpm limit for the first 1000 km, then add 1k rpm. And every following 500km, add an additional 1k rpm. In the early days, most important to vary the rpm, not lug the engine, and avoid continuous high load operation. Also, as I mentioned earlier, after the first 500km the engine map changes to be a lot more aggressive – an insane bark at startup, and more aggressive throttle blips. At startup and idle, this thing reminds of a racing Ducati V-twin superbike.
The Sport button blips to smooths upshifts as well as downshifts. The only car that revs as quickly as an R with single-mass flywheel, is a Carrera GT. BTW, the GT4 engine has so much inertia that there is no comparison - I have never needed upshift blips in that car. And speaking of comparisons with the Carrera GT, the R sounds better inside and not as good from the outside, but still fantastic.
Compared to a current 991 GT3 RS, this car is a lot more special. Both for what it actually is, and for what it represents.
What it is, is a hot-rodded manual road-oriented version of the RS – lighter, slimmer, rawer, manual gears, light flywheel, etc. And from my experience of owning both cars, the R’s acceleration feels like that of a 550 hp RS. While the RS has the advantage of launch control and immediate gear shifts, the R accelerates noticeably harder within gear.
What it represents is, is what makes the R truly special. For me, the RS is simply the latest in a line of track weapons among which there is significant lineage in the form of every previous RS, and a number of alternatives – regular GT3, Speciale, 675 LT, etc. With the R, there is no previous version or obvious alternatives – if you want a raw hot-rod manual road weapon, there is nothing else even close. The R is almost as exciting as a CGT but a lot more fun without the grim reaper waiting to pounce at any wrong move.
The GT4 is a puppy, the CGT a lion, and the R a thoroughbred.
Preuninger’s break-in recommendation is 5k rpm limit for the first 1000 km, then add 1k rpm. And every following 500km, add an additional 1k rpm. In the early days, most important to vary the rpm, not lug the engine, and avoid continuous high load operation. Also, as I mentioned earlier, after the first 500km the engine map changes to be a lot more aggressive – an insane bark at startup, and more aggressive throttle blips. At startup and idle, this thing reminds of a racing Ducati V-twin superbike.
The Sport button blips to smooths upshifts as well as downshifts. The only car that revs as quickly as an R with single-mass flywheel, is a Carrera GT. BTW, the GT4 engine has so much inertia that there is no comparison - I have never needed upshift blips in that car. And speaking of comparisons with the Carrera GT, the R sounds better inside and not as good from the outside, but still fantastic.
Compared to a current 991 GT3 RS, this car is a lot more special. Both for what it actually is, and for what it represents.
What it is, is a hot-rodded manual road-oriented version of the RS – lighter, slimmer, rawer, manual gears, light flywheel, etc. And from my experience of owning both cars, the R’s acceleration feels like that of a 550 hp RS. While the RS has the advantage of launch control and immediate gear shifts, the R accelerates noticeably harder within gear.
What it represents is, is what makes the R truly special. For me, the RS is simply the latest in a line of track weapons among which there is significant lineage in the form of every previous RS, and a number of alternatives – regular GT3, Speciale, 675 LT, etc. With the R, there is no previous version or obvious alternatives – if you want a raw hot-rod manual road weapon, there is nothing else even close. The R is almost as exciting as a CGT but a lot more fun without the grim reaper waiting to pounce at any wrong move.
The GT4 is a puppy, the CGT a lion, and the R a thoroughbred.
The r is a hugely accomplished 911 , the Carrera gt is arguably the greatest analogue Supercar of all Time (once you take into account use and reliability)
Regards , cgt and r owner
P.s can't stand this nonsense grim reaper style talk regarding the Carrera gt . Sensationalist nonsense imv respectfully
Cgt flies high with the dragons , nothing comes close
Blacula has the grim reaper waiting , not the cgt
Last edited by wtdoom; 10-14-2016 at 11:07 AM.
10-14-2016, 11:04 AM
#55
Racer
The r is no way near the excitement of a Carrera gt , lets not get carried away now
The r is a hugely accomplished 911 , the Carrera gt is arguably the greatest analogue Supercar of all Time (once you take into account use and reliability)
Regards , cgt and r owner
P.s can't stand this nonsense grim reaper style talk regarding the Carrera gt . Sensationalist nonsense imv respectfully
The r is a hugely accomplished 911 , the Carrera gt is arguably the greatest analogue Supercar of all Time (once you take into account use and reliability)
Regards , cgt and r owner
P.s can't stand this nonsense grim reaper style talk regarding the Carrera gt . Sensationalist nonsense imv respectfully
10-14-2016, 11:15 AM
#56
I need to spend more than an hour in one first !
Initial impressions are fantastic car need to spend more time in it but initially I say almost as good as a 4.0 997 but not quite .
I'll report back in November when I dive it over to Spa on the back roads and track comparing it with the Cgt and or 4.0 RS directly .
Cool?
Initial impressions are fantastic car need to spend more time in it but initially I say almost as good as a 4.0 997 but not quite .
I'll report back in November when I dive it over to Spa on the back roads and track comparing it with the Cgt and or 4.0 RS directly .
Cool?
10-14-2016, 11:17 AM
#57
Racer
I need to spend more than an hour in one first !
Initial impressions are fantastic car need to spend more time in it but initially I say almost as good as a 4.0 997 but not quite .
I'll report back in November when I dive it over to Spa on the back roads and track comparing it with the Cgt and or 4.0 RS directly .
Cool?
Initial impressions are fantastic car need to spend more time in it but initially I say almost as good as a 4.0 997 but not quite .
I'll report back in November when I dive it over to Spa on the back roads and track comparing it with the Cgt and or 4.0 RS directly .
Cool?
10-14-2016, 11:34 AM
#59
What it does is preventing the RPMs to drop between upshifts so that you'll always be in the ideal range.
As much as naysayers will jump and say it's just a fake pdk with a clutch,bear in mind that IT CAN be deactivated. The only thing you have to do is leave the Sport button off. There was some misconception in the beginning related to the Sport button : once you press it On,it will run cooler because the DME will operate the thermostat differently. You will observe this behavior while running in Sport mode under normal driving. BUT, the Sport button DOES NOT need to be depressed in order for the DME to command better cooling. ALL YOU HAVE TO DO is drive aggressively and you will quickly realize that the coolant temperatures will drop initially more than in Normal driving.
I believe Porsche is going to continue implementing this system in all their cars with a manual transmission. That way,those that were complaining about not being able to concentrate on their line and having to heel/toe while on the track have nothing to complain about anymore.
So there you have it : best of both Worlds. You certainly don't have " best of both Worlds " with pdk.
As much as naysayers will jump and say it's just a fake pdk with a clutch,bear in mind that IT CAN be deactivated. The only thing you have to do is leave the Sport button off. There was some misconception in the beginning related to the Sport button : once you press it On,it will run cooler because the DME will operate the thermostat differently. You will observe this behavior while running in Sport mode under normal driving. BUT, the Sport button DOES NOT need to be depressed in order for the DME to command better cooling. ALL YOU HAVE TO DO is drive aggressively and you will quickly realize that the coolant temperatures will drop initially more than in Normal driving.
I believe Porsche is going to continue implementing this system in all their cars with a manual transmission. That way,those that were complaining about not being able to concentrate on their line and having to heel/toe while on the track have nothing to complain about anymore.
So there you have it : best of both Worlds. You certainly don't have " best of both Worlds " with pdk.
10-14-2016, 11:42 AM
#60
At your service mr greens
I have driven one f1 very gingerly on the roads and was with evo magazine when they did their best analogue drivers car ever video a few years back (mine was the black gt). I went out with a couple of the drivers , I'd rate the f1 very highly indeed but when you take into account usability and reliability I think it falls behind the Cgt and f50.
The f1 required a team of McLaren technicians to keep it working and there was a fuelling issue (and that was a factory car) And that's not even mentioning the too high profile tyres and the engine mounted arguably too high .'in short for pure driving I rate the f50 and Cgt above the f1 .
The f1 shines (arguably unmatched ) in other areas
The f1 required a team of McLaren technicians to keep it working and there was a fuelling issue (and that was a factory car) And that's not even mentioning the too high profile tyres and the engine mounted arguably too high .'in short for pure driving I rate the f50 and Cgt above the f1 .
The f1 shines (arguably unmatched ) in other areas