The psyche of a Porsche GT? buyer.
09-16-2016, 02:00 PM
#31
Three Wheelin'
Tony's was a great response.
I think there is a good group of people overall that have these GT3/RS's. There are always a few that you see and realize you won't be great friends, probably not even really acquaintances, but there are a bunch of folks that everyone seems to get along with. From different backgrounds, ages, etc. but we get along in a great way. Over time the folks that don't fit into the group will fall out of the group (or will not be asked back to future gatherings) and that happens in every group IMO.
I lucked upon my GT3 and appreciate it every time I see it in the garage, even if I am not driving it. Financially it is one of the worst decisions I have ever made. Emotionally, one of the best! And if not for this car I wouldn't have met some really great people. You don't know what is going to happen tomorrow and I didn't want to be in the position of saying "what could have been" so I got the car. And my plan is to keep it for how ever long I can use it. Many people on this board and others would probably tell me that financially I shouldn't have gotten the car, that I can't really "afford" it, but I made the decision for me and only me and I am glad I did.
I think there is a good group of people overall that have these GT3/RS's. There are always a few that you see and realize you won't be great friends, probably not even really acquaintances, but there are a bunch of folks that everyone seems to get along with. From different backgrounds, ages, etc. but we get along in a great way. Over time the folks that don't fit into the group will fall out of the group (or will not be asked back to future gatherings) and that happens in every group IMO.
I lucked upon my GT3 and appreciate it every time I see it in the garage, even if I am not driving it. Financially it is one of the worst decisions I have ever made. Emotionally, one of the best! And if not for this car I wouldn't have met some really great people. You don't know what is going to happen tomorrow and I didn't want to be in the position of saying "what could have been" so I got the car. And my plan is to keep it for how ever long I can use it. Many people on this board and others would probably tell me that financially I shouldn't have gotten the car, that I can't really "afford" it, but I made the decision for me and only me and I am glad I did.
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09-16-2016, 05:48 PM
#32
Rennlist Member
Tony, I would agree with all you said, and my response is not unlike your own.
My perception is:
1. We all like cars. That doesn't mean some of us don't enjoy bikes and trucks, but we like cars more.
2. We appreciate reliable and safe sports cars. Many of us probably grew up with and have owned various level of sports cars (from our perspective over the years).
3. Most, probably enjoy the act of driving. Can be track, touring, whatever. The journey is the adventure. We're probably less the point A to point B crowd.
4. For the most part, we have the financial means. Whether we earned it, inherited it, won the lottery, whatever, we've decided we have the means to procure the GT car. (footnote: to me money is a relative thing. If we only bought things that we're practical, we'd all be driving something else. The person doesn't buy the Rolex to flaunt, the person buys the Rolex because they can afford it. Otherwise they'd have a Timex; no offense to Timex owners)
5. Success. Having financial means (in most cases - thinking bell curve here), we've earned it, which implies we've had success along the way. Our hard work, and likely divine intervention from important influencers in our lives helped us all to get to this point (ok, admit that sounded a bit heavy for a Fri afternoon)
6. Like-Minded. In many cases, I suspect, we are like minded. While there is a diverse group of owners (which I love), because of the items above, we are like-minded. And for most, we tend to gravitate to those that have some similarities to ourselves.
7. They make is feel good. Every time, and I mean every time I get in this car it puts a smile on my face. I owned a 997.2 GT3 and now a 991 GT3 (16 months, 12,000 miles) and I am as giddy as a schoolboy each time I drive. It is the best therapy I've every had, and if I divide the costs over the miles, it is probably less expense in the long run than paying for therapy.
My perception is:
1. We all like cars. That doesn't mean some of us don't enjoy bikes and trucks, but we like cars more.
2. We appreciate reliable and safe sports cars. Many of us probably grew up with and have owned various level of sports cars (from our perspective over the years).
3. Most, probably enjoy the act of driving. Can be track, touring, whatever. The journey is the adventure. We're probably less the point A to point B crowd.
4. For the most part, we have the financial means. Whether we earned it, inherited it, won the lottery, whatever, we've decided we have the means to procure the GT car. (footnote: to me money is a relative thing. If we only bought things that we're practical, we'd all be driving something else. The person doesn't buy the Rolex to flaunt, the person buys the Rolex because they can afford it. Otherwise they'd have a Timex; no offense to Timex owners)
5. Success. Having financial means (in most cases - thinking bell curve here), we've earned it, which implies we've had success along the way. Our hard work, and likely divine intervention from important influencers in our lives helped us all to get to this point (ok, admit that sounded a bit heavy for a Fri afternoon)
6. Like-Minded. In many cases, I suspect, we are like minded. While there is a diverse group of owners (which I love), because of the items above, we are like-minded. And for most, we tend to gravitate to those that have some similarities to ourselves.
7. They make is feel good. Every time, and I mean every time I get in this car it puts a smile on my face. I owned a 997.2 GT3 and now a 991 GT3 (16 months, 12,000 miles) and I am as giddy as a schoolboy each time I drive. It is the best therapy I've every had, and if I divide the costs over the miles, it is probably less expense in the long run than paying for therapy.
09-16-2016, 06:43 PM
#33
Rennlist Member
Are non-posers the ones who track their cars or daily drive them? I have never tracked mine, but I do DD it. I think I have over 16,000 miles on my 2015 GT3. My enjoyment comes from daily commutes, long trips and ripping through Hill Country. Like all of us, I had to bust my *** to get one, so I can't see tearing it up on a track, but I don't have any ill feelings towards those that do. In fact, I am glad and appreciative that they do track their cars. Porsches mean different things to all of us and as long as they make us smile, who cares how it is produced.
As far as a GT psyche goes, from reading this list, most of us seem to fall into one or more of the following categories: hard-working, educated, smart, appreciate the mechanical and aesthetic qualities of these cars, interested in living life, etc. It also seems like a lot of us had some encounter with Porsches as a child and have worked hard to rewarded ourselves with a GT car. Just my .02
As far as a GT psyche goes, from reading this list, most of us seem to fall into one or more of the following categories: hard-working, educated, smart, appreciate the mechanical and aesthetic qualities of these cars, interested in living life, etc. It also seems like a lot of us had some encounter with Porsches as a child and have worked hard to rewarded ourselves with a GT car. Just my .02
09-16-2016, 08:26 PM
#34
well, my cars are garage queens....i go to lamborghini driving academy's to tear up their cars driving as hard as my skill level can go for about $1500.00 per event. I cherish my cars and keep them in showroom condition only taking them out on perfect days, never in traffic and around my house in national forest roads. going out to eat and daily driving I am usually in my 2004 lexus rx330 that I love. I do not consider myself a poser as I paid for these cars without assistance of loans. I often ask myself why not spend my car money on other things, and have not really come up with any answers. I have always been a car guy and consider myself very fortunate to own cars most dream of, but it also makes me very uncomfortable when I'm asked how much something costs or the usual question "what do you do for a living" , I never want someone to believe that I think I'm better than anyone, because I'm not....I guess that comes from having nothing growing up and watching friends have everything....anyway, I love my Rs!
09-16-2016, 08:58 PM
#35
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Tony, I would agree with all you said, and my response is not unlike your own. My perception is: 1. We all like cars. That doesn't mean some of us don't enjoy bikes and trucks, but we like cars more. 2. We appreciate reliable and safe sports cars. Many of us probably grew up with and have owned various level of sports cars (from our perspective over the years). 3. Most, probably enjoy the act of driving. Can be track, touring, whatever. The journey is the adventure. We're probably less the point A to point B crowd. 4. For the most part, we have the financial means. Whether we earned it, inherited it, won the lottery, whatever, we've decided we have the means to procure the GT car. (footnote: to me money is a relative thing. If we only bought things that we're practical, we'd all be driving something else. The person doesn't buy the Rolex to flaunt, the person buys the Rolex because they can afford it. Otherwise they'd have a Timex; no offense to Timex owners) 5. Success. Having financial means (in most cases - thinking bell curve here), we've earned it, which implies we've had success along the way. Our hard work, and likely divine intervention from important influencers in our lives helped us all to get to this point (ok, admit that sounded a bit heavy for a Fri afternoon) 6. Like-Minded. In many cases, I suspect, we are like minded. While there is a diverse group of owners (which I love), because of the items above, we are like-minded. And for most, we tend to gravitate to those that have some similarities to ourselves. 7. They make is feel good. Every time, and I mean every time I get in this car it puts a smile on my face. I owned a 997.2 GT3 and now a 991 GT3 (16 months, 12,000 miles) and I am as giddy as a schoolboy each time I drive. It is the best therapy I've every had, and if I divide the costs over the miles, it is probably less expense in the long run than paying for therapy.
09-16-2016, 10:24 PM
#36
I just like well-made, beautifully-designed, and impeccably-engineered cars. And I like the attitude of Porsche GT cars in that they apply the latest performance technology, yes, but also preserve a more visceral driving experience instead of cosseting the driver like other performance cars, even normal series 911s (which are also great cars, too).
We should all count ourselves very fortunate to be able to own our Porsche GT cars.
It doesn't matter whether one tracks their car, drives it daily to work, takes it out for spirited drives on weekends or special occasions, or just admires it in their garage. It's all good. To each his own. No one who works hard to be in a position to buy their dream car is a "poser," regardless of how they choose to enjoy their Porsche.
We should all count ourselves very fortunate to be able to own our Porsche GT cars.
It doesn't matter whether one tracks their car, drives it daily to work, takes it out for spirited drives on weekends or special occasions, or just admires it in their garage. It's all good. To each his own. No one who works hard to be in a position to buy their dream car is a "poser," regardless of how they choose to enjoy their Porsche.
09-16-2016, 10:48 PM
#37
Rennlist Member
i have to admit i am a bit surprised at the nerve that has been touched by this poseur/track-or-not sidebar to the op's query
i agree with lapis -- it doesn't matter, really, we all enjoy these cars in our own ways and each of those ways is totally ok (except maybe bubble-wrapping them LOL!)
i would, however, like to add some personal thoughts about this tracking question - i do track a lot these days, but there have been many years of my life, in fact, most of my life so far, when i have loved cars but did not track at all...
1. i think people who live in denser urban areas may need to resort to tracking to really appreciate their GT-cars, simply because public roads may not be conducive to brisk/sporty driving... a good example is Houston, where all roads seem to be straight and paved in concrete... i think it must be frustrating to own a GT car there and not take it out to a track at times
2. there is no doubt that tracking beats up cars... track use is extreme use, and while it is awesome that GT cars can 'take the lickin' and keep tickin'', using these cars a lot on track requires much more maintenance and definitely takes a toll cosmetically over time, not to mention risking severe damage if an incident occurs - many GT car owners are very detail oriented, intense, particular/perfectionists/OCD, so I can totally get that some owners may not want to flog their precious dream cars on track...
3. i would also add that as modern Porsches progress, certainly since late 90's, these cars are getting SOOO powerful, SOOO fast, SOOO capable, that it is actually hard to appreciate their full capabilities on normal roads, even open curvy ones (on this note i really didn't appreciate the performance gap between a 1gt3 and 1rs until i ran these hard on track back to back)... so track use has in fact made me appreciate these awesome cars even more. And you won't lose your license going 125 around a bend LOL!
none of this is to say that not tracking a gt car diminishes the ownership experience, much less its owner... it is just that the track environment is place, perhaps THE place where GT cars truly shine!
i agree with lapis -- it doesn't matter, really, we all enjoy these cars in our own ways and each of those ways is totally ok (except maybe bubble-wrapping them LOL!)
i would, however, like to add some personal thoughts about this tracking question - i do track a lot these days, but there have been many years of my life, in fact, most of my life so far, when i have loved cars but did not track at all...
1. i think people who live in denser urban areas may need to resort to tracking to really appreciate their GT-cars, simply because public roads may not be conducive to brisk/sporty driving... a good example is Houston, where all roads seem to be straight and paved in concrete... i think it must be frustrating to own a GT car there and not take it out to a track at times
2. there is no doubt that tracking beats up cars... track use is extreme use, and while it is awesome that GT cars can 'take the lickin' and keep tickin'', using these cars a lot on track requires much more maintenance and definitely takes a toll cosmetically over time, not to mention risking severe damage if an incident occurs - many GT car owners are very detail oriented, intense, particular/perfectionists/OCD, so I can totally get that some owners may not want to flog their precious dream cars on track...
3. i would also add that as modern Porsches progress, certainly since late 90's, these cars are getting SOOO powerful, SOOO fast, SOOO capable, that it is actually hard to appreciate their full capabilities on normal roads, even open curvy ones (on this note i really didn't appreciate the performance gap between a 1gt3 and 1rs until i ran these hard on track back to back)... so track use has in fact made me appreciate these awesome cars even more. And you won't lose your license going 125 around a bend LOL!
none of this is to say that not tracking a gt car diminishes the ownership experience, much less its owner... it is just that the track environment is place, perhaps THE place where GT cars truly shine!
09-17-2016, 01:19 AM
#38
Not that there's anything wrong with 'posers', but each of us probably have a different definition of it. I certainly don't think not tracking your car qualifies as one; not even close. Not every GT car owner has a track nearby, the financial freedom to do it (takes a lot of money on these cars), wants to beat up his expensive toy, or has the time to track (family obligations, etc). My definition of a poser is somebody who just bought the car for status/ego. That kind never even checks the oil, let alone change it. To me it's all about the driving experience, and I highly enjoy driving even in the city, but obviously much more in empty curvy roads, and on tracks when possible. I consider myself a car and driving enthusiast. Also enjoy working on my vehicles very much. But I'm no fan of any brand or model. Each car stands on its own merit.
09-17-2016, 01:19 AM
#39
Lots of good commentary. Some of my best driving experiences have been on amazing stretches of open road in places like Yosemite or the Valley of Fire or simply sitting in the garage admiring the car. There is no right way to enjoy these cars. I just feel that you cannot safely extract the lateral performance of these vehicles anywhere but the track.
Saw this on IG and had to share it. Don't agree 100% with it but some in here may...
Saw this on IG and had to share it. Don't agree 100% with it but some in here may...
09-17-2016, 07:45 AM
#42
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Sorry I missed the first 3 pages of this thread I was out driving...
Ok I'll say my piece on here:
Kudos to the drivers, trackers, or collectors. I love all of those routes of ownership. I think these are customizable and gorgeous and collectible cars. And capable of shredding some lap times or mountain roads. I'm all about the get together-ness of GT guys and have made some really good friends over the years on RL. The GT4 guys are awesome guys too.
RL evolves and when I first signed up on here (2001 was my first screen name) it was all about the 993 board. Then the 996 GT2/GT3 and 997 GT board. Either way we have similar tastes, and that is a very narrow range- after all we are sitting on phones and computers talking about the same cars. We bought them on purpose. And they are not ubiquitous (imagine an iPhone forum).
This board has changed a lot vs the 997 GT days where 80% of the threads on here are about: PTS,
car prices,
allocation thieves,
other cars and their merits (not a bad topic),
and gossip.
I love how active the board is, and there is a TON of collective searchable knowledge here.
Now-
There is a very small subset of car guys (regardless of brand) that I don't click with: the Self-Hyper.
The self hyper is actively seeking or begging for Instagram followers, for likes, and is literally sending links to news clips of himself. These guys are usually either spending their dad's money and generally confined to the Ferrari / Lambo crowd but since I'm not racist against Ferraris or Mclarens I get inundated with these guys asking me to "give them a shout out on Instagram" or "send some followers my way".
Or, the cardinal sin to me- posting pics of other people's cars in their garage as their own.
This is especially prevalent in SoCal- and usually these guys are driving like jackasses and almost running over those 15 year old kids that chase us around. Like the guy in LA who recently trashed his white murci SV in broad daylight after leaving a car show.
Since GT3/GT3RS went PDK we have to deal with those guys.
I only go to cars and coffee type stuff if my time is too limited to do a track day or a canyon run. I might only have 60-90 mins free. They're usually super boring but some guys in SoCal bring out really weird stuff and that's all I want to see.
Ok I'll say my piece on here:
Kudos to the drivers, trackers, or collectors. I love all of those routes of ownership. I think these are customizable and gorgeous and collectible cars. And capable of shredding some lap times or mountain roads. I'm all about the get together-ness of GT guys and have made some really good friends over the years on RL. The GT4 guys are awesome guys too.
RL evolves and when I first signed up on here (2001 was my first screen name) it was all about the 993 board. Then the 996 GT2/GT3 and 997 GT board. Either way we have similar tastes, and that is a very narrow range- after all we are sitting on phones and computers talking about the same cars. We bought them on purpose. And they are not ubiquitous (imagine an iPhone forum).
This board has changed a lot vs the 997 GT days where 80% of the threads on here are about: PTS,
car prices,
allocation thieves,
other cars and their merits (not a bad topic),
and gossip.
I love how active the board is, and there is a TON of collective searchable knowledge here.
Now-
There is a very small subset of car guys (regardless of brand) that I don't click with: the Self-Hyper.
The self hyper is actively seeking or begging for Instagram followers, for likes, and is literally sending links to news clips of himself. These guys are usually either spending their dad's money and generally confined to the Ferrari / Lambo crowd but since I'm not racist against Ferraris or Mclarens I get inundated with these guys asking me to "give them a shout out on Instagram" or "send some followers my way".
Or, the cardinal sin to me- posting pics of other people's cars in their garage as their own.
This is especially prevalent in SoCal- and usually these guys are driving like jackasses and almost running over those 15 year old kids that chase us around. Like the guy in LA who recently trashed his white murci SV in broad daylight after leaving a car show.
Since GT3/GT3RS went PDK we have to deal with those guys.
I only go to cars and coffee type stuff if my time is too limited to do a track day or a canyon run. I might only have 60-90 mins free. They're usually super boring but some guys in SoCal bring out really weird stuff and that's all I want to see.
09-17-2016, 09:39 AM
#43
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I've been going to the track for years. However after I bought my first GT3 which was a 991 I went a lot more. Now I have a GT 4 and I expect to do 5-6 track WE events a year. That's all I can do because I work for a leaving. Because we have COTA now nearby it made it so much easier. The other track close by isn't as well maintained and makes it hard to justify a membership especially for my schedule. GT cars certainly bring a sense of fulfillment
09-17-2016, 03:41 PM
#44
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The current-gen Porsche GT cars cover a lot of bases, so we should probably expect considerable diversity of the people who buy them. Some buyers will keep the car spotless, hardly drive it, and be content to admire its beauty and engineering. Some will hammer the car at the track, knowing there will be increased wear and tear, depreciation, and chance of wrecking the car. Some will try to find a balance between these extremes. Some will simply want to possess the car because they've long dreamed of doing so and finally can. Etc.
The common elements among buyers may be limited to the obvious ones: liking sports cars, being able to afford the car, and not being focused on attracting attention. A further common element among RL posters may be feeling especially passionate about the cars (which itself could be for a variety of reasons).
The common elements among buyers may be limited to the obvious ones: liking sports cars, being able to afford the car, and not being focused on attracting attention. A further common element among RL posters may be feeling especially passionate about the cars (which itself could be for a variety of reasons).
09-17-2016, 05:01 PM
#45
Rennlist Member
Very interesting thread.
I've loved these cars since my first in '67. After my kid's college, I got reacquainted with Porsches, and the passion I had as a 20 year old was re-ignited.
I have been enthralled with the history, engineering and driving characteristics of these cars for the last 20 years have bought and enjoyed, and restored and enjoyed, several, currently owning a '68S and '70T. About a month ago, after a week of thought, I bought an RS. I am so happy that I did, because it puts a big smile on my face everytime I drive it. A really big smile. And I'm filled with excitement when I think about an upcoming drive. Nothing I have ever driven compares to the experience. If you have driven a Cup car, the noise and sound is similar -- how Porsche was able to create a driver that reminds me of my drive in the Cup Car is amazing.
Bottom line -- it is all about personal enjoyment and sharing that with others (all my car friends have driven the car - my kids too - w/ me in it, of course!). I intended to track the car and regularly drive the car, but I do take care of, and keep all my cars immaculate because they are not only a passion, but a gift.
Psyche? Makes me feel alive and empowered -- takes me back to my '67 911.
I've loved these cars since my first in '67. After my kid's college, I got reacquainted with Porsches, and the passion I had as a 20 year old was re-ignited.
I have been enthralled with the history, engineering and driving characteristics of these cars for the last 20 years have bought and enjoyed, and restored and enjoyed, several, currently owning a '68S and '70T. About a month ago, after a week of thought, I bought an RS. I am so happy that I did, because it puts a big smile on my face everytime I drive it. A really big smile. And I'm filled with excitement when I think about an upcoming drive. Nothing I have ever driven compares to the experience. If you have driven a Cup car, the noise and sound is similar -- how Porsche was able to create a driver that reminds me of my drive in the Cup Car is amazing.
Bottom line -- it is all about personal enjoyment and sharing that with others (all my car friends have driven the car - my kids too - w/ me in it, of course!). I intended to track the car and regularly drive the car, but I do take care of, and keep all my cars immaculate because they are not only a passion, but a gift.
Psyche? Makes me feel alive and empowered -- takes me back to my '67 911.