786

I think it's more to do with Nissan not having the $$$ to develop a new car quickly. There is talk of the next GT-R coming in a couple years with a hybrid drivetrain, KERS etc.

robmypro

Power-to-weight ratio combined with German engineering.

Omi

Long time lurker who owns both a 991 GT3 and GT-R, among other cars. It looks like I have found a thread that I can finally contribute back to this great community on.

If you compare straight line numbers of the GT-R to those of the RS, with particular attention to elapsed speeds, they are actually very close. In a race, if anything happens to either car the other will certainly win. In this case, the GT-R did not get the launch that would have been expected of it. As a result, it was not going to catch up. But even with a good launch, it would have been a close race at best. This matches my own observations with my GT3 and GT-R.

Another comment I will add, not pertaining to these two cars in specific: I think of racing as more of a probability game than a game of known outcomes. For example, even if numbers say that one car will be “faster” than another, there is a probability that the "faster" car will lose to the “slower” car in a race. As the two cars get closer in performance, that probability increases.

This is a popular claim, but not technically correct. The gap between advertised numbers and independent verified times was actually larger for Porsche than Nissan when the GT-R came out.

I think the confusion on this (within the Porsche community) stems from the continuously changing spec on the GT-R. Nissan would improve the GT-R yearly, and claim new performance times before the older GT-Rs landed in Europe and could be tested. As far as I know, and someone correct me if I am wrong, there really isn’t an equivalent with Porsche. Once 911s are made, they don’t seem to change until the next introduction occurs. Also, there’s a sports like rivalry at play as well.

The reason the GT-R appears to be 'resting' is because the creator of the GT-R left the company after 2013.

At the time of his departure, many were complaining that the GT-R couldn't be driven on the street because it was too uncompromising. Following his departure, the GT-R program was completely restructured within Nissan and a new approach was decided on. “Regular" GT-Rs became more GT oriented for daily driving and the GT-R NISMO continued to push toward performance, with fewer limitations. This is very different from before when all GT-Rs were trying to be daily drivable and also perform at a world class level.

The GT-R and GT3 are both great cars. I deeply enjoy both and I think both manufacturers could learn from each other. I will give some examples. I wish Nissan would commit to the GT-R and come up with long term plans for it in the way that Porsche commits to the 911. I think Nissan was/is on to something in a way that can keep the industry “honest” (in want of better words) also make all sports cars better. I do not think the 991 would have been as great as it is if the GT-R never existed.

There are other things that I think Porsche and Nissan could learn from each other on as well. In engineering terms, I wish Nissan would have continued to improve technology. The 911 has wireless telemetry for example. The GT-R does not, even though telemetry is something that the GT-R is known for and pioneered. The 911 has PDCC, Ceramic Brakes, and more. The GT-R has none of that, despite the price getting much higher and despite being known for technology. On the other side of the fence, I wish Porsche took reliability and ownership expectations as seriously as Nissan has. One example: When I bought my GT3, I thought I was buying a car that could last for a very long time, a car that was over engineered for the street due to it being designed for significant track use. But engines are failing relatively often. This would not be of concern if Porsche proactively took action or if there were an easy solution. As it stands, it appears that if I want to keep the GT3 over the long run, I will be rolling the dice.

My overall experience with these cars has been very different from what’s been advertised in the media and in internet discussion. Without going into boring details, I will give two brief examples for each. Some say that the GT-R overheats on track and drives itself. That has not been my experience. Some say the GT3 is too hardcore to drive on the street and PDK is not engaging. That has not been my experience either.

On a more positive note, I think sportscars are like ice cream. Everyone may have a preferred flavor. But, I would encourage as much exposure to as many cars as possible. Even if it isn't one’s “cup of tea”, I think there are new things to learn. I also think it is possible to gain a new appreciation for what one has or what one may want - even from one’s own preferred manufacturer, through exposure. I do not think the media and “consensus internet opinion” paint a complete picture that can serve as a substitute for first hand experience.

doubleurx

Certainly more exciting since manuals in both cars would be much much slower....

786

Very informative and measured response, thank you.

You sir should post more

Nodrip

Funny that you mention the reliability of the GTR when the car's warranty is void on track or with vdc off :


Quite surprising that you didn't overheat your GTR, because mine was done in 2 laps of Nurburgring GP...
No car is driving itself, but it's probably easier to exploit the potential of the car when its weight is well distributed, got 4WD and full assisted suspensions!

Omi

You could say the GT-R you drove overheated on you. I could say, mine never has. You could say, the warranty doesn't cover track use. I could say, Porsche has exclusions as well and doesn't allow slicks on its 'track car'. You could say, Porsche covers warranties anyway. I could say, so does Nissan. You could find links to the contrary. So could I. I could remind you that the Vr 38 is the same engine that is used in the GT-R NISMO GT3 and we could talk about similarities the GT-R has to its race car that the GT3 can't claim. You could talk about Porsche's Motorsport history, the GT3s race series, and the factory GT3s depth of chassis features, all things that the GT-R doesn't match. You could talk about low quality materials. I could talk about depth of usability. You could talk about public perception. I could talk about the same. You could say the car is too easy to drive and the democratization of track performance is a bad thing for the enthusiast. I could question that conservative definition of "enthusiast". I could say that in my observation, most can't drive professional lap times in a GT-R and don't seem to have the commitment that would be needed anyway, and add that even if your claim were true it's still terrific fun. You could say that it's not fun to ride around on a vacuum cleaner. I could correct you and say that it's a fast vacuum cleaner. And we could go on and on.

But I have no interest in that. I enjoy all of my cars and in my opinion they each have pros and cons. We all have our tastes and preferences in the machinery we keep in our stables. I hope you do not misconstrue this or my previous post as a personal attack against you or Porsche. It's not. I wish you the utmost enjoyment of your cars in good health!

Nodrip

I'm not a Porsche purist at all. I'm just pissed by the hype of the GTR R35, which is only perfect on the internet/youtube.

Yes, both car have their strenghs and weakness.
But the ****ty warranty of the GTR is just unforgivable.
It's supposed to be a "performance" car (whatever the name), but you are not allowed to really enjoy it (on track).
This is just ridiculous.

786

The GT-R isn't meant to be a track car in the vein of a GT3/RS, if you wanted a track car you shouldn't have bought one in the first place. You can't blame the car for your misstep.

As far as being "pissed" by the hype, you're letting the internet and magazines get the better of you. In the real world its just an inexpensive car that's performance is a match or greater than some of its competitors. But it also has trade offs that some aren't willing to accept. You have to take the car at face value and accept it's pluses and minuses or simply not buy one. Luckily there are many models and brands for you to choose from if you choose the latter.

jimbo1111

I also raced one from a roll and pulled about three car length on him in my 7 speed manual 2015 GTS.

robmypro

I took a look at the GTR before buying my GT3. I wanted to like it, and going in gave it a real chance. The killers for me were that it was too heavy, only the NISMO would have worked, and it was $150k.

If I was going to spend that kind of money, GT3 all day, every day. If I wanted to spend less, but get top performance, I'd buy a Z06.

Bottom line: I just wasn't going to spend $150k on a Nissan. At $100k for the top of the line GTR I would have seriously considered it. But even then I would have gone Porsche.