Predicted Depreciation of GT3s
06-12-2016, 01:01 AM
#46
Unfortunately you're a minority. I know you don't care...I don't care either, but what's holding up the prices, and the subject of this thread, is a speculative group.
06-12-2016, 02:26 AM
#47
Race Director
06-12-2016, 03:53 AM
#48
Race Director
What I know for sure is that the pleasure I get from driving my 991.1 GT3 hasn't depreciated at all. For the foreseeable future, that's all I care about.
06-12-2016, 08:54 AM
#50
I don't think providing a manual option for the GT3 will shake up prices the way some are predicting. I was initially very skeptical of the PDK and have done a lot of road and track miles in manual Porsches, but after more than 20K miles in the 991 GT3, I'm sold on PDK as the way to go for these fast Porsche GT cars. I can't recall a single moment in the car when I thought "I wish this thing was manual instead of PDK." The zeal for the manual 991 GT3 cars is there now, but I won't be surprised if the PDK cars wind up selling better in the used market as people increasingly become sold on PDK. Manual has its place, but IMO not so much in these particular cars designed for fast track use.
But I totally agree with you.
Even if Porsche offers a six speed with the 3 it will take more than likely a year or more for prices to go down on the current models.
06-12-2016, 09:06 AM
#51
One thing I have wondered is if people are thinking about real versus nominal dollars in these thought processes.
In one sense, in selling my 997, I am going to make a couple thousand bucks in nominal dollars. In real dollars, l lost a whole bunch more. Factoring in opportunity cost and the time value of money, I really, really lost a bunch of money.
It is attractive that I have lost comparatively less, on a proportional basis, with my Porsches than, say, a string of Toyota Camrys. And, I can conclusively say, all my P-cars have been more awesome than a Camry. Also, it would have been way worse on a Turbo, so I have that going for me also.
Maybe someone smarter than me can weigh in this also. Admittedly, my knowledge of the dismal science is limited to classes I took long ago, and mostly slept through.
For me though, the final justification on this whole topic is that the reality of Porsche ownership is that ultimately I am only slightly lessening the value of my estate, which will likely be wasted by ingrateful little punks anyway.
In one sense, in selling my 997, I am going to make a couple thousand bucks in nominal dollars. In real dollars, l lost a whole bunch more. Factoring in opportunity cost and the time value of money, I really, really lost a bunch of money.
It is attractive that I have lost comparatively less, on a proportional basis, with my Porsches than, say, a string of Toyota Camrys. And, I can conclusively say, all my P-cars have been more awesome than a Camry. Also, it would have been way worse on a Turbo, so I have that going for me also.
Maybe someone smarter than me can weigh in this also. Admittedly, my knowledge of the dismal science is limited to classes I took long ago, and mostly slept through.
For me though, the final justification on this whole topic is that the reality of Porsche ownership is that ultimately I am only slightly lessening the value of my estate, which will likely be wasted by ingrateful little punks anyway.
06-12-2016, 09:32 AM
#52
Rennlist Member
I don't think providing a manual option for the GT3 will shake up prices the way some are predicting. I was initially very skeptical of the PDK and have done a lot of road and track miles in manual Porsches, but after more than 20K miles in the 991 GT3, I'm sold on PDK as the way to go for these fast Porsche GT cars. I can't recall a single moment in the car when I thought "I wish this thing was manual instead of PDK." The zeal for the manual 991 GT3 cars is there now, but I won't be surprised if the PDK cars wind up selling better in the used market as people increasingly become sold on PDK. Manual has its place, but IMO not so much in these particular cars designed for fast track use.
Fact remains this is the only GT3 sold new that's worth its MSRP or more 3 years later used with mileage on it. 997 and 996 didn't didn't do that.
Also I believe you will find 1.2 GT3 will max rev 8500 like the 911R.
The 991.1 E&F engines will all be replaced in time. PAG have by now resolved this issue and appear unwavering to ensure its addressed for owners.
The 9000 rpm rev limit and the tortured birth along with the huge tech step and the relatively low volume (compared to future GT products, not past - even RS production for .1 generation will like GT4 equal or eclipse .1GT3), may all well transpire to make the 991.1 GT3 a longer term appreciation model. Possible if not entirely likely. Stranger things have happened in the world of Porsche.
As others have said this is all antithesis to GT car ownership - we should be on the track thrashing these cars not worried about their future value.
In New Zealand we virtually see zero RS being used in track only new GT3 & GT4 - we laugh because we say RS was ultimate track version "Rennsport" but has become at the track the "Rarely Seen" model. A sad indictment of things to come perhaps.
All the market needs is a big correction and things will come like normal again....
06-12-2016, 09:35 AM
#53
We are mixing apples and oranges.
One side is the $ value of the car and depreciation
The other is the passion and the amount of joy P cars bring to us.
It is not how good is the Pdk compare to manual what makes a big difference I the value. It is the rarity of manual cars at this moment and the fact that the next one looks will continue naturally aspirated. As we know in this type of cars is rarity and uniqueness.
Look at the BMW z8 ????? Every year the price go up. Not to mention 993's (again rarity, volume and uniqueness)
Passion or $$$$. Let's don't mixed
One side is the $ value of the car and depreciation
The other is the passion and the amount of joy P cars bring to us.
It is not how good is the Pdk compare to manual what makes a big difference I the value. It is the rarity of manual cars at this moment and the fact that the next one looks will continue naturally aspirated. As we know in this type of cars is rarity and uniqueness.
Look at the BMW z8 ????? Every year the price go up. Not to mention 993's (again rarity, volume and uniqueness)
Passion or $$$$. Let's don't mixed
06-12-2016, 09:46 AM
#54
Same here.....I'm very fortunate that I've never thought about the depreciation factor of a car when buying.....there's no price on enjoyment.....
06-12-2016, 10:29 AM
#55
And didn't the GT3 Variants from 996 to 997 still sport Mr Mezger's Design?
And truthfully it's cheaper just to buy an old 996 GT3, take it to Skarkwerks for their 3.9L massaging and have 500 BHP. And further not all the traction control nannies. And if you don't want the 996 look you can go to Wicked 7 and get the 996 to 997 conversion. Still will be cheaper than an 997.1 GT3!
And truthfully it's cheaper just to buy an old 996 GT3, take it to Skarkwerks for their 3.9L massaging and have 500 BHP. And further not all the traction control nannies. And if you don't want the 996 look you can go to Wicked 7 and get the 996 to 997 conversion. Still will be cheaper than an 997.1 GT3!
06-12-2016, 10:45 AM
#56
Rennlist Member
Yes but the question was on depreciation.
In any of us had 1/2 a brain we'd be driving honda odyseys and putting that fcf in pe and other investments.
In any of us had 1/2 a brain we'd be driving honda odyseys and putting that fcf in pe and other investments.
06-12-2016, 11:03 AM
#57
I'm just recently starting to look at GT3s, remember the recall, but am not versed well as far as the engine differences....so the discussion on the first page of the thread concerning the earlier cars is most concerning since I would be limited financially to the lower end of the market.
Are the engine changes (E, F, etc) seperated by model year, serial numbers, etc?
And are the E engines the only problem ones? Any issues owning the others out of warranty?
Thanks
Are the engine changes (E, F, etc) seperated by model year, serial numbers, etc?
And are the E engines the only problem ones? Any issues owning the others out of warranty?
Thanks
06-12-2016, 11:32 AM
#58
06-12-2016, 11:51 AM
#59
Rennlist Member
I'm just recently starting to look at GT3s, remember the recall, but am not versed well as far as the engine differences....so the discussion on the first page of the thread concerning the earlier cars is most concerning since I would be limited financially to the lower end of the market. Are the engine changes (E, F, etc) seperated by model year, serial numbers, etc? And are the E engines the only problem ones? Any issues owning the others out of warranty? Thanks
F = 2015
G = 2016
A lot of 2014 have extended warranty from the recall. Something you would have to check with a dealer on. Other than that, make sure whatever you buy is CPO. 2016 are the best but they are generally above msrp at this point.
06-12-2016, 11:58 AM
#60
So are the recalled 2014 engines now F engines or modified E?