Review: OEM Surface Transforms PCCB Rotor Kit for 991 GT3
05-03-2016, 02:46 PM
#1
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Review: OEM Surface Transforms CCB Rotor Kit for 991 GT3
Hello Fellow Rennlisters,
I took the PCCBs (Porsche Carbon Ceramic Brakes) off my GT3 for safekeeping and replaced them with a turnkey OEM Surface Transforms CCB (carbon ceramic brakes) kit from the UK. The Surface Transforms kit is approved as an OEM replacement part kit in Europe and Germany (under E90 and TUV). The kit includes the rotors and hats, spacers and bolts. The 5 mm spacers are used to accommodate the larger rear rotors, which are upgraded to 400 mm. Notably, ST only recommends Pagid CCB pads such as the RSC1, as the pads and rotors were engineered as a package. I emphasize that this ST kit is not a rotor kit from Movit or RB, it is directly from ST UK and is engineered by them as a total package.
We are all very familiar with the multiple threads and perhaps 100s of posts regarding the pros and cons and value propositions of PCCB/CCB vs steel, so I will only share that I did my own back of the envelope calculations and decided that the ST kit was worth it at $11,998. Moreover, the ST rotors are well proven and have been run by racers and weekend warriors like myself with success here and overseas, and guys are seeing ca. 5000 track miles before refurbishment at 2K a pop.
The ST rotors may be good up to as many as 5 refurbishments (depending on how you drive), so they may be worth approximately 25K miles if you change pads at 40 % left and don't let the rotors get too worn. If you let the rotors go too far, you may miss one refurbishment cycle. That's correct: slightly grooved or showing signs of wear vs. carbon density measurement at about 5000 track miles. Carbon density measurements may be performed on these rotors, but the results are in question. The 5000 number comes from ST and the distributor, after feedback from racers who are realizing multiple seasons out of the ST CCBs. This ain't no GTR godzilla track day hearsay, but I don't believe alot of what I read on the interweb, and the reader may be skeptical of this post as well!
To refurbish, ST skims off 0.2 mm to remove degraded oxidized material, performs a chemical process to recover the surface stoichiometry and composition, followed by Hades style baking. The life of the rotor is ca. 2 mm total thickness reduction.
As covered prior, the ST rotors are made by a different process than the Porsche Brembos, so the refurbishment process is possible and repeatable. I watched a video on the Brembos on youtube and perused the ST patents as part of my DD.
Review: Install went smoothly, but I used Tarett Engineering stud kits instead of bolts for the calipers. I then closely followed the supplied instructions for bedding in, so that Pagid RSC1 material is properly transferred to the rotors. On track, the combination is an improvement over the stock PCCBs and stock pads. The outright braking power is significantly improved, as well as the feel. But, lets not kid ourselves, PCCBs/CCBs are wooden compared to steel, but I am used to it now. The ST brakes seem to improve with more track miles and perform better with a little heat in them. The heat improvement is not a quantum jump, but noticeable over a lap or two. The brakes have not shown any sign of fade with the stock fluid, which I am changing out to Motul 660 soon. PCCBs/CCBs run alot cooler than steel as well, so heat transfer to the fluid is reduced. According to ST, their CCBs run ca. 200 F cooler than PCCBs.
For my reality, the brakes made sense economically, and I like that they can be refurbished, and are an OEM engineered kit directly from ST. The brutal moment(s) of truth for me involved dropping the anchors approaching turn 12 at COTA at 150 plus and knowing that my little white car was gonna make it with margin to spare.
I obtained the kit from the exclusive USA importer Autoquest in Ft. Myers, FL. Gavin and Amy Riches are the contacts.
I took the PCCBs (Porsche Carbon Ceramic Brakes) off my GT3 for safekeeping and replaced them with a turnkey OEM Surface Transforms CCB (carbon ceramic brakes) kit from the UK. The Surface Transforms kit is approved as an OEM replacement part kit in Europe and Germany (under E90 and TUV). The kit includes the rotors and hats, spacers and bolts. The 5 mm spacers are used to accommodate the larger rear rotors, which are upgraded to 400 mm. Notably, ST only recommends Pagid CCB pads such as the RSC1, as the pads and rotors were engineered as a package. I emphasize that this ST kit is not a rotor kit from Movit or RB, it is directly from ST UK and is engineered by them as a total package.
We are all very familiar with the multiple threads and perhaps 100s of posts regarding the pros and cons and value propositions of PCCB/CCB vs steel, so I will only share that I did my own back of the envelope calculations and decided that the ST kit was worth it at $11,998. Moreover, the ST rotors are well proven and have been run by racers and weekend warriors like myself with success here and overseas, and guys are seeing ca. 5000 track miles before refurbishment at 2K a pop.
The ST rotors may be good up to as many as 5 refurbishments (depending on how you drive), so they may be worth approximately 25K miles if you change pads at 40 % left and don't let the rotors get too worn. If you let the rotors go too far, you may miss one refurbishment cycle. That's correct: slightly grooved or showing signs of wear vs. carbon density measurement at about 5000 track miles. Carbon density measurements may be performed on these rotors, but the results are in question. The 5000 number comes from ST and the distributor, after feedback from racers who are realizing multiple seasons out of the ST CCBs. This ain't no GTR godzilla track day hearsay, but I don't believe alot of what I read on the interweb, and the reader may be skeptical of this post as well!
To refurbish, ST skims off 0.2 mm to remove degraded oxidized material, performs a chemical process to recover the surface stoichiometry and composition, followed by Hades style baking. The life of the rotor is ca. 2 mm total thickness reduction.
As covered prior, the ST rotors are made by a different process than the Porsche Brembos, so the refurbishment process is possible and repeatable. I watched a video on the Brembos on youtube and perused the ST patents as part of my DD.
Review: Install went smoothly, but I used Tarett Engineering stud kits instead of bolts for the calipers. I then closely followed the supplied instructions for bedding in, so that Pagid RSC1 material is properly transferred to the rotors. On track, the combination is an improvement over the stock PCCBs and stock pads. The outright braking power is significantly improved, as well as the feel. But, lets not kid ourselves, PCCBs/CCBs are wooden compared to steel, but I am used to it now. The ST brakes seem to improve with more track miles and perform better with a little heat in them. The heat improvement is not a quantum jump, but noticeable over a lap or two. The brakes have not shown any sign of fade with the stock fluid, which I am changing out to Motul 660 soon. PCCBs/CCBs run alot cooler than steel as well, so heat transfer to the fluid is reduced. According to ST, their CCBs run ca. 200 F cooler than PCCBs.
For my reality, the brakes made sense economically, and I like that they can be refurbished, and are an OEM engineered kit directly from ST. The brutal moment(s) of truth for me involved dropping the anchors approaching turn 12 at COTA at 150 plus and knowing that my little white car was gonna make it with margin to spare.
I obtained the kit from the exclusive USA importer Autoquest in Ft. Myers, FL. Gavin and Amy Riches are the contacts.
Last edited by unclejosh; 09-05-2016 at 12:15 PM.
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usrodeo4 (10-09-2020)
05-04-2016, 12:16 AM
#3
Rennlist Member
Josh,
Nice meeting and running with you at COTA. Thank you so much for your summary and review of this important topic for those of us using PCCBs at the track. I think it won't be long before I need these rotors.
Nice meeting and running with you at COTA. Thank you so much for your summary and review of this important topic for those of us using PCCBs at the track. I think it won't be long before I need these rotors.
05-04-2016, 12:45 AM
#4
Hello Fellow Rennlisters,
I took the Porsche PCCBs off my GT3 for safekeeping and replaced them with a turnkey OEM Surface Transforms PCCB kit from the UK. The Surface Transforms kit is approved as an OEM replacement part kit in Europe and Germany (under E90 and TUV). The kit includes the rotors and hats, spacers and bolts. The 5 mm spacers are used to accommodate the larger rear rotors, which are upgraded to 400 mm. Notably, ST only recommends Pagid PCCB pads such as the RSC1, as the pads and rotors were engineered as a package. I emphasize that this ST kit is not a rotor kit from Movit or RB, it is directly from ST UK and is engineered by them as a total package.
We are all very familiar with the multiple threads and perhaps 100s of posts regarding the pros and cons and value propositions of PCCB vs steel, so I will only share that I did my own back of the envelope calculations and decided that the ST kit was worth it at $11,998. Moreover, the ST rotors are well proven and have been run by racers and weekend warriors like myself with success here and overseas, and guys are seeing ca. 5000 track miles before refurbishment at 2K a pop.
The ST rotors may be good up to as many as 5 refurbishments (depending on how you drive), so they may be worth approximately 25K miles if you change pads at 40 % left and don't let the rotors get too worn. If you let the rotors go too far, you may miss one refurbishment cycle. That's correct: slightly grooved or showing signs of wear vs. carbon density measurement at about 5000 track miles. Carbon density measurements may be performed on these rotors, but the results are in question. The 5000 number comes from ST and the distributor, after feedback from racers who are realizing multiple seasons out of the ST PCCBs. This ain't no GTR godzilla track day hearsay, but I don't believe alot of what I read on the interweb, and the reader may be skeptical of this post as well!
To refurbish, ST skims off 0.2 mm to remove degraded oxidized material, performs a chemical process to recover the surface stoichiometry and composition, followed by Hades style baking. The life of the rotor is ca. 2 mm total thickness reduction.
As covered prior, the ST rotors are made by a different process than the Porsche Brembos, so the refurbishment process is possible and repeatable. I watched a video on the Brembos on youtube and perused the ST patents as part of my DD.
Review: Install went smoothly, but I used Tarett Engineering stud kits instead of bolts for the calipers. I then closely followed the supplied instructions for bedding in, so that Pagid RSC1 material is properly transferred to the rotors. On track, the combination is an improvement over the stock PCCBs and stock pads. The outright braking power is significantly improved, as well as the feel. But, lets not kid ourselves, PCCBs are wooden compared to steel, but I am used to it now. The ST brakes seem to improve with more track miles and perform better with a little heat in them. The heat improvement is not a quantum jump, but noticeable over a lap or two. The brakes have not shown any sign of fade with the stock fluid, which I am changing out to Motul 660 soon. PCCBs run alot cooler than steel as well, so heat transfer to the fluid is reduced.
For my little reality, the brakes made sense economically, and I like that they can be refurbished, and are an OEM engineered kit directly from ST. The brutal moment(s) of truth for me involved dropping the anchors approaching turn 12 at COTA at 150 plus and knowing that my spendy little white car was gonna make it with margin to spare.
I obtained the kit from the exclusive USA importer Autoquest in Ft. Myers, FL. Gavin and Amy Riches are the contacts.
I took the Porsche PCCBs off my GT3 for safekeeping and replaced them with a turnkey OEM Surface Transforms PCCB kit from the UK. The Surface Transforms kit is approved as an OEM replacement part kit in Europe and Germany (under E90 and TUV). The kit includes the rotors and hats, spacers and bolts. The 5 mm spacers are used to accommodate the larger rear rotors, which are upgraded to 400 mm. Notably, ST only recommends Pagid PCCB pads such as the RSC1, as the pads and rotors were engineered as a package. I emphasize that this ST kit is not a rotor kit from Movit or RB, it is directly from ST UK and is engineered by them as a total package.
We are all very familiar with the multiple threads and perhaps 100s of posts regarding the pros and cons and value propositions of PCCB vs steel, so I will only share that I did my own back of the envelope calculations and decided that the ST kit was worth it at $11,998. Moreover, the ST rotors are well proven and have been run by racers and weekend warriors like myself with success here and overseas, and guys are seeing ca. 5000 track miles before refurbishment at 2K a pop.
The ST rotors may be good up to as many as 5 refurbishments (depending on how you drive), so they may be worth approximately 25K miles if you change pads at 40 % left and don't let the rotors get too worn. If you let the rotors go too far, you may miss one refurbishment cycle. That's correct: slightly grooved or showing signs of wear vs. carbon density measurement at about 5000 track miles. Carbon density measurements may be performed on these rotors, but the results are in question. The 5000 number comes from ST and the distributor, after feedback from racers who are realizing multiple seasons out of the ST PCCBs. This ain't no GTR godzilla track day hearsay, but I don't believe alot of what I read on the interweb, and the reader may be skeptical of this post as well!
To refurbish, ST skims off 0.2 mm to remove degraded oxidized material, performs a chemical process to recover the surface stoichiometry and composition, followed by Hades style baking. The life of the rotor is ca. 2 mm total thickness reduction.
As covered prior, the ST rotors are made by a different process than the Porsche Brembos, so the refurbishment process is possible and repeatable. I watched a video on the Brembos on youtube and perused the ST patents as part of my DD.
Review: Install went smoothly, but I used Tarett Engineering stud kits instead of bolts for the calipers. I then closely followed the supplied instructions for bedding in, so that Pagid RSC1 material is properly transferred to the rotors. On track, the combination is an improvement over the stock PCCBs and stock pads. The outright braking power is significantly improved, as well as the feel. But, lets not kid ourselves, PCCBs are wooden compared to steel, but I am used to it now. The ST brakes seem to improve with more track miles and perform better with a little heat in them. The heat improvement is not a quantum jump, but noticeable over a lap or two. The brakes have not shown any sign of fade with the stock fluid, which I am changing out to Motul 660 soon. PCCBs run alot cooler than steel as well, so heat transfer to the fluid is reduced.
For my little reality, the brakes made sense economically, and I like that they can be refurbished, and are an OEM engineered kit directly from ST. The brutal moment(s) of truth for me involved dropping the anchors approaching turn 12 at COTA at 150 plus and knowing that my spendy little white car was gonna make it with margin to spare.
I obtained the kit from the exclusive USA importer Autoquest in Ft. Myers, FL. Gavin and Amy Riches are the contacts.
05-04-2016, 11:11 AM
#5
Rennlist Member
Higher cost than steel upfront but overtime becomes in par with steel.
Significant reduction in unsprung weight and ability to modulate the braking is far better than PCCB.
Gavin at Autoquest is a tremendous source of information, honest and very helpful
Significant reduction in unsprung weight and ability to modulate the braking is far better than PCCB.
Gavin at Autoquest is a tremendous source of information, honest and very helpful
Last edited by malmasri; 05-04-2016 at 08:56 PM.
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05-04-2016, 12:41 PM
#8
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Surface Transforms CCB Rotor Kit Track Miles and Wear Update
Guys,
To date the rotors and RSC1 pads have 1442 track miles and 12 track days.
The track days were at Laguna Seca, Thunderhill, and COTA.
The front rotors have no apparent visual wear. The rear rotors are showing slight grooving.
The pads are about half worn, with about 6 mm remaining. The pads wedge, and have been flipped once. I checked inner and outer pad wear.
I am going to change the pads soon as a precaution (heat transfer and resultant increase in rotor surface oxidation). The supplier, Autoquest, recommends running no less than 40 % total pad thickness.
To date the rotors and RSC1 pads have 1442 track miles and 12 track days.
The track days were at Laguna Seca, Thunderhill, and COTA.
The front rotors have no apparent visual wear. The rear rotors are showing slight grooving.
The pads are about half worn, with about 6 mm remaining. The pads wedge, and have been flipped once. I checked inner and outer pad wear.
I am going to change the pads soon as a precaution (heat transfer and resultant increase in rotor surface oxidation). The supplier, Autoquest, recommends running no less than 40 % total pad thickness.
Last edited by unclejosh; 09-05-2016 at 12:30 PM.
11-05-2017, 03:35 PM
#9
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Surface Transforms Rotors
Hello Fellow Rennlisters,
I took the PCCBs (Porsche Carbon Ceramic Brakes) off my GT3 for safekeeping and replaced them with a turnkey OEM Surface Transforms CCB (carbon ceramic brakes) kit from the UK. The Surface Transforms kit is approved as an OEM replacement part kit in Europe and Germany (under E90 and TUV). The kit includes the rotors and hats, spacers and bolts. The 5 mm spacers are used to accommodate the larger rear rotors, which are upgraded to 400 mm. Notably, ST only recommends Pagid CCB pads such as the RSC1, as the pads and rotors were engineered as a package. I emphasize that this ST kit is not a rotor kit from Movit or RB, it is directly from ST UK and is engineered by them as a total package.
We are all very familiar with the multiple threads and perhaps 100s of posts regarding the pros and cons and value propositions of PCCB/CCB vs steel, so I will only share that I did my own back of the envelope calculations and decided that the ST kit was worth it at $11,998. Moreover, the ST rotors are well proven and have been run by racers and weekend warriors like myself with success here and overseas, and guys are seeing ca. 5000 track miles before refurbishment at 2K a pop.
The ST rotors may be good up to as many as 5 refurbishments (depending on how you drive), so they may be worth approximately 25K miles if you change pads at 40 % left and don't let the rotors get too worn. If you let the rotors go too far, you may miss one refurbishment cycle. That's correct: slightly grooved or showing signs of wear vs. carbon density measurement at about 5000 track miles. Carbon density measurements may be performed on these rotors, but the results are in question. The 5000 number comes from ST and the distributor, after feedback from racers who are realizing multiple seasons out of the ST CCBs. This ain't no GTR godzilla track day hearsay, but I don't believe alot of what I read on the interweb, and the reader may be skeptical of this post as well!
To refurbish, ST skims off 0.2 mm to remove degraded oxidized material, performs a chemical process to recover the surface stoichiometry and composition, followed by Hades style baking. The life of the rotor is ca. 2 mm total thickness reduction.
As covered prior, the ST rotors are made by a different process than the Porsche Brembos, so the refurbishment process is possible and repeatable. I watched a video on the Brembos on youtube and perused the ST patents as part of my DD.
Review: Install went smoothly, but I used Tarett Engineering stud kits instead of bolts for the calipers. I then closely followed the supplied instructions for bedding in, so that Pagid RSC1 material is properly transferred to the rotors. On track, the combination is an improvement over the stock PCCBs and stock pads. The outright braking power is significantly improved, as well as the feel. But, lets not kid ourselves, PCCBs/CCBs are wooden compared to steel, but I am used to it now. The ST brakes seem to improve with more track miles and perform better with a little heat in them. The heat improvement is not a quantum jump, but noticeable over a lap or two. The brakes have not shown any sign of fade with the stock fluid, which I am changing out to Motul 660 soon. PCCBs/CCBs run alot cooler than steel as well, so heat transfer to the fluid is reduced. According to ST, their CCBs run ca. 200 F cooler than PCCBs.
For my reality, the brakes made sense economically, and I like that they can be refurbished, and are an OEM engineered kit directly from ST. The brutal moment(s) of truth for me involved dropping the anchors approaching turn 12 at COTA at 150 plus and knowing that my little white car was gonna make it with margin to spare.
I obtained the kit from the exclusive USA importer Autoquest in Ft. Myers, FL. Gavin and Amy Riches are the contacts.
I took the PCCBs (Porsche Carbon Ceramic Brakes) off my GT3 for safekeeping and replaced them with a turnkey OEM Surface Transforms CCB (carbon ceramic brakes) kit from the UK. The Surface Transforms kit is approved as an OEM replacement part kit in Europe and Germany (under E90 and TUV). The kit includes the rotors and hats, spacers and bolts. The 5 mm spacers are used to accommodate the larger rear rotors, which are upgraded to 400 mm. Notably, ST only recommends Pagid CCB pads such as the RSC1, as the pads and rotors were engineered as a package. I emphasize that this ST kit is not a rotor kit from Movit or RB, it is directly from ST UK and is engineered by them as a total package.
We are all very familiar with the multiple threads and perhaps 100s of posts regarding the pros and cons and value propositions of PCCB/CCB vs steel, so I will only share that I did my own back of the envelope calculations and decided that the ST kit was worth it at $11,998. Moreover, the ST rotors are well proven and have been run by racers and weekend warriors like myself with success here and overseas, and guys are seeing ca. 5000 track miles before refurbishment at 2K a pop.
The ST rotors may be good up to as many as 5 refurbishments (depending on how you drive), so they may be worth approximately 25K miles if you change pads at 40 % left and don't let the rotors get too worn. If you let the rotors go too far, you may miss one refurbishment cycle. That's correct: slightly grooved or showing signs of wear vs. carbon density measurement at about 5000 track miles. Carbon density measurements may be performed on these rotors, but the results are in question. The 5000 number comes from ST and the distributor, after feedback from racers who are realizing multiple seasons out of the ST CCBs. This ain't no GTR godzilla track day hearsay, but I don't believe alot of what I read on the interweb, and the reader may be skeptical of this post as well!
To refurbish, ST skims off 0.2 mm to remove degraded oxidized material, performs a chemical process to recover the surface stoichiometry and composition, followed by Hades style baking. The life of the rotor is ca. 2 mm total thickness reduction.
As covered prior, the ST rotors are made by a different process than the Porsche Brembos, so the refurbishment process is possible and repeatable. I watched a video on the Brembos on youtube and perused the ST patents as part of my DD.
Review: Install went smoothly, but I used Tarett Engineering stud kits instead of bolts for the calipers. I then closely followed the supplied instructions for bedding in, so that Pagid RSC1 material is properly transferred to the rotors. On track, the combination is an improvement over the stock PCCBs and stock pads. The outright braking power is significantly improved, as well as the feel. But, lets not kid ourselves, PCCBs/CCBs are wooden compared to steel, but I am used to it now. The ST brakes seem to improve with more track miles and perform better with a little heat in them. The heat improvement is not a quantum jump, but noticeable over a lap or two. The brakes have not shown any sign of fade with the stock fluid, which I am changing out to Motul 660 soon. PCCBs/CCBs run alot cooler than steel as well, so heat transfer to the fluid is reduced. According to ST, their CCBs run ca. 200 F cooler than PCCBs.
For my reality, the brakes made sense economically, and I like that they can be refurbished, and are an OEM engineered kit directly from ST. The brutal moment(s) of truth for me involved dropping the anchors approaching turn 12 at COTA at 150 plus and knowing that my little white car was gonna make it with margin to spare.
I obtained the kit from the exclusive USA importer Autoquest in Ft. Myers, FL. Gavin and Amy Riches are the contacts.
These rotors are for sale with only 12 track days or about 1400 miles.
Take offs from my GT3 991.1 which I sold.
PM me for details
Last edited by unclejosh; 11-06-2017 at 12:50 PM.
11-06-2017, 06:27 AM
#10
10 track days/ 1200miles ? Are those different rotors than those you mentioned earlier in 2016/09 when they had 12 track days and like 1400miles at that time?
11-06-2017, 11:38 AM
#12
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
11-25-2017, 06:02 PM
#14
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Surface Transforms Rotors for 991 GT3 REFURBISHED
Guys,
To remove any uncertainty, I sent my rotors back to ST for refurbishment.
They will be back in a month and will be for sale with all supporting documentation.
To remove any uncertainty, I sent my rotors back to ST for refurbishment.
They will be back in a month and will be for sale with all supporting documentation.
Last edited by unclejosh; 03-16-2018 at 11:05 AM. Reason: Sold